NV4500 swap is underway

[snj8198]

that adapter is not what i was expecting. looks beefy. mind if i ask how much AA is selling em for?

I ordered a set of brake hoses from ORD today. Spoke to Steve and he said the empty cases are all but gone and he hasn't got a fix on a new casting or supplier. The only one's he knows for sure are the Low Max series cases but that line didn't really take off so not alot were produced. pity.

[DirtyLarry]

The Lomax is a cool thing but crimany, they wanted way too much for it. This AA kit goes for almost $1000 on AA’s website but through Summit Racing it was $887 with a free ride on a UPS truck. Won’t have time to play with all this stuff until tomorrow night. Today was list Christmas! Also picked up a new hydrobooster this morning.

Also found the tail shaft nut had backed off so we have to pull that apart to see if anything got goofed up. Looking at the AA instructions, much of that tail shaft has to be whacked off anyway. Let the fun begin!

[GCncsuHD]

Subscribed...Hope to be doing this in the near future for my 78.

[jbclassix]

Subscribing!

Thought you would like this picture of my "homemade" tranny jack.



Isn't it nice to have a garrage here in CO!

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by jbclassix

Subscribing!

Thought you would like this picture of my "homemade" tranny jack.

Isn't it nice to have a garrage here in CO!

Hey, if it works and everybody lived to tell about then it did its job. That is how my 465 got installed 12 years ago.

I like what you got on that jack!

[snj8198]

sell those and make big bux!

[Critter]

Looks like a great swap! I think you have it under control. If you don't mind answering a question, what is the difference in distance between the sm465 and nv4500 as far as the front of the bell housing to the shifter location? In other words, if you left the engine in the same location how much further back would the shifter be?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by Critter

If you don't mind answering a question, what is the difference in distance between the sm465 and nv4500 as far as the front of the bell housing to the shifter location? In other words, if you left the engine in the same location how much further back would the shifter be?

Thanks!

The depth is the same on both the stock bell housing and the AA bell housing. From measuring from the front of the transmission case to center of the shifter on the NP465 is 6” and 9.5” on the NV4500. So, it looks like the shifter hole to be bored into the automatic turtle shell will be reward 3.5”

This kinda give you an idea. The front of the two trans are equal albeit the 465 is tiled back a tag on the jack.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Thanks!

The depth is the same on both the stock bell housing and the AA bell housing. From measuring from the front of the transmission case to center of the shifter on the NP465 is 6” and 9.5” on the NV4500. So, it looks like the shifter hole to be bored into the automatic turtle shell will be reward 3.5”

Thanks, I really appreciate it! I am working towards a 6.0/nv4500/205 swap as we speak, but my blazer was originally an auto. I'm still in the parts gathering mode. Curious where the shifter would stick through the floor and this give me an pretty good idea. I have the stock 2001 LS style bellhousing that came with the nv4500 but I'm pretty sure it is the same length as your original sm465 bell. I will be watching your swap like a hawk. Once again, THANKS.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by Critter

Thanks, I really appreciate it! I am working towards a 6.0/nv4500/205 swap as we speak, but my blazer was originally an auto. I'm still in the parts gathering mode. Curious where the shifter would stick through the floor and this give me an pretty good idea. I have the stock 2001 LS style bellhousing that came with the nv4500 but I'm pretty sure it is the same length as your original sm465 bell. I will be watching your swap like a hawk. Once again, THANKS.

That will make a sweet combo for a Blazer!

Yeah, they should all be the same length although the later style manual transmissions that use the internal slave/release bearing may be a tad longer. I do have a stock NV4500 bell housing for the internal slave/release bearing, like you are talking about, from a 2003 GM P-chassis lying around that I can compare to the 465 bell if you like. The AA bell is already on the engine though.

[Critter]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

I do have a stock NV4500 bell housing for the internal slave/release bearing, like you are talking about, from a 2003 GM P-chassis lying around that I can compare to the 465 bell if you like.

Sure, if you don't mind. I will never turn down good info!

[Dieselwrencher]

Nice swap! On the early AA adapter you were talking about, that cup adapter looks like a dodge specific part, not a chevy part. That could be for some odd ball deal AA did to try to cut costs or just didn't have the capability to have a new tail housing cast. The automatic dodges in 1991-1993 used that so I'm guessing so did the earlier ones.

[DirtyLarry]

That could be Ryan. I was worried sick when I saw that picture hoping like hell this kit didn’t turn out like that.

About all we got done this weekend was getting the AA kit installed on the trans and tcase. The scariest part was cutting the tailshaft on the NV4500! My buddy is always ready for destruction so I let him do while I installed the clutch, pressure plate and bell housing. My other buddy is the smgr at the local Chevy store where we borrowed the NV4500 tail shaft socket. His 300 lbs of body weight help keep the trans still while Bill lopped off the section of tailshaft.







I hate the AA shift handle. Probably will end up ordering an OEM shifter.


The NP205 shift handle appears to remain in pretty much the same location as with the 465.



The trans won’t actually get installed for while we tackle the rust and start getting things ready for the hydraulic clutch and hydrobooster.

Does anybody have any good pictures of where the clutch master cylinder mounts on a square body style firewall?

[MalibuSSwagon]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Does anybody have any good pictures of where the clutch master cylinder mounts on a square body style firewall?

I'll see if I can take pics of my C-10's firewall tomorrow.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by MalibuSSwagon

I'll see if I can take pics of my C-10's firewall tomorrow.

That would be great! Thank you

[MalibuSSwagon]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

That would be great! Thank you

There you go! Dont mind the mess, the truck is all original and I haven't got around to cleaning up under the hood yet

[jonessmc87]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

well i have to ask, did you bend this bracket yet. The first time i put mine in 4HI it went in fine because that bracket was in tension. When i took it out of 4HI the bracket was in compression and twisted up pretty good. Between the quality of this bracket and the porous casting of np205 spacer i'm not very impressed with my only experience with advance adapters.

BTW i pulled the y pipe off yesterday and changed both donut gaskets and put dynamat down on the trans tunnel under the carpet. The truck is now just as quiet as a stock truck on the inside except for an awkward rattle / click in 2nd and 5th. We should have a nv4500 meet just to compare odd noises these transmissions make lol

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by jonessmc87

well i have to ask, did you bend this bracket yet. The first time i put mine in 4HI it went in fine because that bracket was in tension. When i took it out of 4HI the bracket was in compression and twisted up pretty good. Between the quality of this bracket and the porous casting of np205 spacer i'm not very impressed with my only experience with advance adapters.

BTW i pulled the y pipe off yesterday and changed both donut gaskets and put dynamat down on the trans tunnel under the carpet. The truck is now just as quiet as a stock truck on the inside except for an awkward rattle / click in 2nd and 5th. We should have a nv4500 meet just to compare odd noises these transmissions make lol

Looks like you missed posts 84 and 119 where I didn’t use the AA shifter bracket because it just looked flimsy and I didn’t like the shifter location. I ended up using an ORD twin stick shifter. I am starting to think some of the noises in these transmissions are normal by the number of people I spoke to lately that say theirs rattles too.

[jonessmc87]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

Looks like you missed posts 84 and 119 where I didn’t use the AA shifter bracket because it just looked flimsy and I didn’t like the shifter location. I ended up using an ORD twin stick shifter. I am starting to think some of the noises in these transmissions are normal by the number of people I spoke to lately that say theirs rattles too.

haha yea i was sitting in class ten minutes after i said that and remembered your ORD setup. The bracket does a good job putting the shifter in the stock location except its like 3/8 or an inch too far to the passenger side. just another reason for a little more fabrication to make it strong enough to be functional. O and i'm picking the shifter knob up tomorrow morning, im curious if it has the m12 x 1.5 threads in it or not.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

That could be Ryan. I was worried sick when I saw that picture hoping like hell this kit didn’t turn out like that.

About all we got done this weekend was getting the AA kit installed on the trans and tcase. The scariest part was cutting the tailshaft on the NV4500! My buddy is always ready for destruction so I let him do while I installed the clutch, pressure plate and bell housing. My other buddy is the smgr at the local Chevy store where we borrowed the NV4500 tail shaft socket. His 300 lbs of body weight help keep the trans still while Bill lopped off the section of tailshaft.







I hate the AA shift handle. Probably will end up ordering an OEM shifter.


The NP205 shift handle appears to remain in pretty much the same location as with the 465.



The trans won’t actually get installed for while we tackle the rust and start getting things ready for the hydraulic clutch and hydrobooster.

Does anybody have any good pictures of where the clutch master cylinder mounts on a square body style firewall?

hey Larry hows it goin, can a chevy 2wd 32 spline shaft tranz have the rear shaft whacked off like this and a 4wd rear housing bolted on then a 88-91 241 bolted up to it--and instantly made into a 4wd---for a DSDrop setup?
and whats the big deal with having to cough up the $$s on AA bells---as far as a early 93-5 chevy version,, any old bell could just be taken to a competent machine shop and have the bearing opening opend up to 5 1/8" --someone could use a cast iron bell too ( easier to weld on--redrill /modify) and the same ole throwout lever.

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by truckeez

hey Larry hows it goin, can a chevy 2wd 32 spline shaft tranz have the rear shaft whacked off like this and a 4wd rear housing bolted on then a 88-91 241 bolted up to it--and instantly made into a 4wd---for a DSDrop setup?
and whats the big deal with having to cough up the $$s on AA bells---as far as a early 93-5 chevy version,, any old bell could just be taken to a competent machine shop and have the bearing opening opend up to 5 1/8" --someone could use a cast iron bell too ( easier to weld on--redrill /modify) and the same ole throwout lever.

As far as I know you can cut a 2wd NV4500 for use with the AA kit to use a 205 but, you would probably be money ahead by just replacing the 2wd mainshaft and rear cover with a 4wd mainshaft and rear cover and just use a 32 spine 205, 208 or 241.

The big deal with using the Advance Adapters bell is the fact that setup allows you to run all stock GM hydraulics from an 85-87 (up 91 in square K5’s, Suburbans). By using the AA bell you can use off the shelf square body specific master cylinder, slave and most importantly the hose. You can certainly use a 92-95 bell but the slave is on the wrong side where a custom hydro hose would need to be built. Building a hose isn’t a big issue but it is when you are in the middle of friggen nowhere like where I go with my truck. Having all mostly stock / off the shelf parts sure makes life easier if you do have a roadside break down and need parts fast.

There are a few ways someone could go about making various bells work, just go the route that fits your need and priority.

[truckeez]

Originally Posted by DirtyLarry

As far as I know you can cut a 2wd NV4500 for use with the AA kit to use a 205 but, you would probably be money ahead by just replacing the 2wd mainshaft and rear cover with a 4wd mainshaft and rear cover and just use a 32 spine 205, 208 or 241.

The big deal with using the Advance Adapters bell is the fact that setup allows you to run all stock GM hydraulics from an 85-87 (up 91 in square K5’s, Suburbans). By using the AA bell you can use off the shelf square body specific master cylinder, slave and most importantly the hose. You can certainly use a 92-95 bell but the slave is on the wrong side where a custom hydro hose would need to be built. Building a hose isn’t a big issue but it is when you are in the middle of friggen nowhere like where I go with my truck. Having all mostly stock / off the shelf parts sure makes life easier if you do have a roadside break down and need parts fast.

There are a few ways someone could go about making various bells work, just go the route that fits your need and priority.

OK thanks for the input, i like the idea of the good old TOB arm, --no hydraulic stuff to piss on the clutch and needing to take the whole damn truck apart to replace. And I also dig the idea of clutch CABLE actuated, but thats a custom mod project having to use parts from--say a mustang, etc.
Do you know if all the newer type nv4500's without the snout sleeve can easily have an earlier type front shaft retainer with the sleeve for a conventional TOB just bolted on and replacing the hydraulic style retainer?

[snj8198]

Hey Larry,

The shifter and boot assembly in Critter's pics are the same you and i were talking about. Is that what you had in mind?

[DirtyLarry]

Originally Posted by snj8198

Hey Larry,

The shifter and boot assembly in Critter's pics are the same you and i were talking about. Is that what you had in mind?

Yes, sir that is what I want. Let's make a deal!

[MTCK]

Awesome! Glad to see you're rolling on this project. The AA kit actually looks top notch (it had better be $$$). Have you thought about grabbing a 2000+ 14 bolt housing and keeping the stock style disc brakes with the internal drum parking brakes? While you're at it, you could rotate your pinion up and reweld the spring perches so you can run a CV rear drive shaft... Snowball effect? Can't wait to see the result!