Ebay truck - potential buyers cautioned to do due diligence

[57taskforce]

I wasn't intending to bash the truck or owner at all with my previous comments. I just don't like it when people aren't honest. It bugs me to see things blatantly wrong that aren't mentioned in the description. I have nothing against a 2 wd body on a 4wd frame. That's what I'm doing myself. I know the legalities I'm dealing with by doing so. But IF do ever sell it it will be sold as a 2wd body on a 4wd frame. As Randy said he had communication with the seller and he, in my opinion, indirectly, acknowledged that the truck is falsely represented. that is why this forum is great so many people know there stuff and know what to look for to help less experienced people find there way and not get burned. I agree this forum is a very positive place and that is why I love to spend my time here. My apologies for not being more careful with my post. I also agree with randy and deadhead nm. Sometimes there needs to be a voice calling out things that just arnt right. I feel it's a protection that we all need in some way or another at one time or another, whether the case may be a falsly advertised truck or an afternarket part that is junk etc. we are all brothers here with pretty similar goals and interstes. It's all about keeping these old rust buckets alive and on the road.

[Rod Run]

I honestly don't see why people are making a big deal about the rivets?

Have you ever torn a vehicle down completely before? I have and I can guarantee you that I've NEVER worried about the originality of the vin's rivets.

What would you rather have, a completely painted truck, or a masked off vin, just so the rivets would be correct?

I think people on forums just tend to blow things out of proportion just because one person finds fault with something.

If someone is really interested in buying something off the internet and just judge a vehicle from a few pictures, they are foolish anyway. There are lots of things you can do, to safeguard yourself and no one has mentioned any of them here.

I have helped friends look at cars to buy, from all over the country and they would have bought 95% of them, because they don't really know how to go about it. I found fault with probably 95% of their 95%, not because the seller was trying to hide anything, but because the seller and possible buyer didn't think certain things needed to be addressed or looked at, until I brought it to light for them

[DeadheadNM]

Originally Posted by Rod Run

I honestly don't see why people are making a big deal about the rivets?

Have you ever torn a vehicle down completely before? I have and I can guarantee you that I've NEVER worried about the originality of the vin's rivets.

What would you rather have, a completely painted truck, or a masked off vin, just so the rivets would be correct?

Yes I have torn down a truck and no I would never remove the specialty rosette rivets, not to preserve originality per se but in order to: 1) avoid potential title hassles at the DMV because removing them may be illegal and 2) offer assurance to future buyers that the cab they see is the cab that came with the truck

Painting around the VIN plate and doing a good job of it is no problem.

[71K20chevy]

If the vin rivets have been tampered with, and it gets inspected and that gets noticed, can't the vehicle get impounded? I think I heard it's illegal to even possess the rosette rivets.

[C10_ustacould]

Part of the problem in my opinion is the use of the work "Restored". To many people this means it has new paint, interior and drive train. To a gear head that word means it is as close to factory as the restorer can make it. People using the same words with two different meanings.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by Bucks68

Part of the problem in my opinion is the use of the work "Restored". To many people this means it has new paint, interior and drive train. To a gear head that word means it is as close to factory as the restorer can make it. People using the same words with two different meanings.

That's not part of the problem...that IS the problem. Same goes for the word "patina" and the words "rust free".

[TheCougarine]

It seems like people throw around the word "restored" much too often. I can not count the number of times I've seen a car/truck thats had a new paint job thrown on it and then sold as "Fully Restored" or one thats a collection of random parts thrown together and then sold as an original. There was a gold truck that was on Ebay that was a cut down long bed being sold as an original short bed that was a pretty good example of someone using the wrong words to describe what was otherwise a super nice truck, I think there was a thread about it on here somewhere.

[C10_ustacould]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

That's not part of the problem...that IS the problem. Same goes for the word "patina" and the words "rust free".

LOL!! I know that "Rust Free" line first hand!!

[70LonghornCST]

Please keep in mind that when posting or commenting on something like this, the seller may also be a member. We would not want to alienate any of our members in doing so.

It is nice, however to offer information to help curtail the possibility of another member of purchasing something that is not what is said to be, whether it is posted to intentionally mislead, or posted without thorough knowledge of what is being said.

Just to clarify the comment of "upper trim is WAY to high," was not a sarcastic comment, but was simply stated as the driver door trim has a curved indentation to accommodate the door lock, and by "Factory" standards, it should lie right up close to the lock. That is all that comment reads to me.

We need to remember that when posting about others' trucks, we must always consider how opinions may come across. I don't think anyone here is intentionally trying to bash, but instead trying to inform our members. We have such a wonderful group of helpful members here, that are paralleled on no other site.

However, we have to keep in mind that any threads--no matter what the original intent--that are made specifically to bash, or those that digress to a negative level are strictly prohibited by our Executive Administration.

[D.PASSMORE]

Looking at the "gentleman's" eBay feed back, it appears he has had a few problems recently. I always take that in consideration when buying certain items off eBay. Best of luck...
Hope that didn't sound sarcastic, its a fact.

[jjzepplin]

I for one learn a lot from these kinds of posts. It looks like a nice truck. I spotted things right away and someone who is buying their first truck would have an eye-opening experience if they bought this. But as stated in the first post-due diligence. And it is definitely due here. Honesty is key when selling which is why I buy from this site.

[teeitup]

I have alot more to say but I won't since I guess it would be calling bashing the truck and but mostly the seller, but all I'm doing is being honest and trying to help other members to maybe learn and spend their money wisely

[Aruba1]

I wish there was a "like" button but it would be too over-used in this thread.

[Z10]

Originally Posted by Rod Run

I honestly don't see why people are making a big deal about the rivets?

Have you ever torn a vehicle down completely before? I have and I can guarantee you that I've NEVER worried about the originality of the vin's rivets.

What would you rather have, a completely painted truck, or a masked off vin, just so the rivets would be correct?

I think people on forums just tend to blow things out of proportion just because one person finds fault with something.

If someone is really interested in buying something off the internet and just judge a vehicle from a few pictures, they are foolish anyway. There are lots of things you can do, to safeguard yourself and no one has mentioned any of them here.

I have helped friends look at cars to buy, from all over the country and they would have bought 95% of them, because they don't really know how to go about it. I found fault with probably 95% of their 95%, not because the seller was trying to hide anything, but because the seller and possible buyer didn't think certain things needed to be addressed or looked at, until I brought it to light for them

The rivets are a very big deal and having the wrong or altered one could lead to having your vehicle impounded by law enforcement. The special rosette rivets have been used on most cars/trucks since 1967. They are not sold to the public. If they are missing it's a clear indication that the VIN has been removed and or replaced with another VIN. Please do some research on this matter. Google NHSTA Vehicle Identification Numbers. Here's a quote from NHSTA:“Law enforcement authorities consider the presence of an altered VIN on a vehicle to be an indication that the vehicle has been stolen"

I used to never really pay attention to VIN plates, but I do now.

[R.L.]

Originally Posted by Aruba1

I wish there was a "like" button but it would be too over-used in this thread.

I hear that.

[Rod Run]

Originally Posted by Z10

The rivets are a very big deal and having the wrong or altered one could lead to having your vehicle impounded by law enforcement. The special rosette rivets have been used on most cars/trucks since 1967. They are not sold to the public. If they are missing it's a clear indication that the VIN has been removed and or replaced with another VIN. Please do some research on this matter. Google NHSTA Vehicle Identification Numbers. Here's a quote from NHSTA:“Law enforcement authorities consider the presence of an altered VIN on a vehicle to be an indication that the vehicle has been stolen"

I used to never really pay attention to VIN plates, but I do now.

I guess that "technically" you have a point there, but I've questioned many police that I know, on certain things that I've done to my cars, that I already knew the answer to, but they couldn't answer for me.

Also, when in doubt about any "legality" of any vehicle you are thinking of buying, one of the easiest ways to find out if the title and/or vin are legit, is to just to a title search with your local RMV before you purchase. I've had a couple of friends save headaches by doing this.

For me personally, a removed and replaced vin tag will never stop me from buying something, as long as it all checks out.

[Rod Run]

One question for all those people that say they won't buy a truck without the proper rivets in place...........

So you are saying that you wouldn't take the 2015 Good Guys giveaway truck because the vin isn't 100% original? Or any other full blown giveaway car/truck?

Not trying to troll or anything here, but just trying to see where everyone draws the line here?

[BKSS67]

I think there is a difference between someone that removed the VIN plate and then re-attached it AND removing a VIN plate and swapping a different VIN plate to the truck.

Removing a VIN plate to paint the body, in my opinion, isn't necessary and would lead to future buyers questioning the authenticity of the truck.

As was stated above, the key is if everything matches (VIN plate, glove box, frame, and title).

[teeitup]

Info for potential buyers and sellers.
I'm pretty sure it is a felony if you sell a illegal vin plate with wrong rivets on a car/truck and you know its not legit. As I've stated most states who inspect, check the rivets, vin plate, frame numbers and it can be impounded by the state if they find anything wrong, if they want too but I would hope most would give you a chance to get it all figured out. You cannot get a clear title if they find something wrong. Its not an issue about originality its an issue about selling a truck to someone who cannot get it titled and registered. I would think most law enforcement officers would not know the legal part of it since most do not deal with inspections. It comes down to the frame number, vin plate and title numbers have to match with the right rivets to get all the new owners paperwork from the state. You can have the vin number ran to see if it was stolen and if the vin number is good and not stolen, you can think your fine till you take to get inspected and find out frame number do not match and it has wrong rivets. I've dealt with this issue twice once on a $5000 72 swb 4x4 I did not notice the 2wd vin and pop rivets (this was 14 years ago learning experience) and another time (just this year) on a $1000 72 2wd truck that the frame numbers and vin/title had one number wrong, I think it was done wrong at factory, since the truck was so original, so I decided to part it out instead of dealing with the title issue. I've bought many truck from out of state, I now check frame numbers with vin plate to make sure its all correct. This truck in the ebay add is a example 67-70 4x4 rolling chassis and 2wd vin plate and title (and has admitted its a 2wd cab and vin and title). Listed as a restored original 1972 4x4. He sold a gmc earlier on ebay thats the same way

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I think some of you should respect the owners choice of preferences for his vehicle. This isn't a forum for bashing and pointing out flaws on vehicles. The vin is cause for concern but could have been removed for paint. The 3/4, 1/2 ton issue is somewhat explained in the ad. If you truly have an interest in the truck email the owner and discuss your concerns.

No, this isn't a forum for bashing. It isn't a forum for thieves either.

[Z10]

Originally Posted by Rod Run

One question for all those people that say they won't buy a truck without the proper rivets in place...........

So you are saying that you wouldn't take the 2015 Good Guys giveaway truck because the vin isn't 100% original? Or any other full blown giveaway car/truck?

Not trying to troll or anything here, but just trying to see where everyone draws the line here?

I would ask the donor or seller to correct the VIN issue. This can be accomplished by having their DMV issue a replacement VIN. The DMV can do this, but will have to do the research to make sure the vehicle has not been stolen. If every thing checks out, you get a new VIN. Similar process as getting a VIN for a kit car.

With regards to 100% original, it either is or it's not. If it's been removed and reinstalled with regular rivets, it's no longer 100% original. Why would a buyer knowingly purchase a vehicle with an altered VIN? If the VIN has a problem, politely point it out to the seller and ask them to have it corrected.

[Aruba1]

In regards to the removal of the VIN, he probably did not know it would be an issue. I painted my truck two weeks ago and was about to drill the rivets out to remove the plate and then I decided to just tape over it. Since I converted my C20 to a dually, I was even doing to use a C30 plate! Now reading this thread I am glad I didn't drill the rivets. IF at that time I found and bought a C30 plate, sure enough I would get a notarized bill of sale of the seller stating the plate is his so I can cover my back.

Also in some states, when you apply for a new title or tag, the DMV never even sees the car (Alabama is one of them, I am sure there are more). I am not defending the seller, just stating my experience.

[ole dollor]

I would never remove any vin plate to paint or anything else , I can give you the phone # of a guy that spent about 2 years in the big house in south Texas for doing this. I do not think it would be worth it....

[blue 72 gmc 4x4]

So I can understand not removing the vin plate. But one question I have is why can you buy the exact rivets for a vin plate for a 55-59 truck?

[undertaker72]

in the old days you could buy them at the dealer , thru Chevrolet , but it was like guns, weedspray and dynamite , you had to be a body shop , and register the purchase and then the application , I worked at a body shop and in the older days when you did a cab swap as in a rollover you would then have to change the id tag , when replacint the doors , you would have to have gm parts order the pressure sensitive id decal , its even harder nowdays on the semi trucks also , the door casings hasa ll data info , and it goes thru registered dealer