engine hunting, what should I be looking for???

[Longhorn Man]

facts;
The vortec heads outflow any stock iron small block head
the 5.7 is just as good as the vintage blocks... not many vintage engines made it 200,000 to 500,000 miles and never been rebuilt
Early 80's engines were just as crumy as most 70's engines, it was the crap on top the engine that made them lame
Zink has been removed from oils for about 2 years now, look into it and it's effect on old school cams.


Talk to the people who you plan on working with on your engine build, talk to the cam people, get pro advice on top of ours.
Might want to look over on the engine and drivetrain board too.... this has been covered there too.

[Gray Ghost]

I'll give you the Vortec head statement...they do outflow most stock heads.

I completely disagree with the block statement though. They were crap until 1989, most any builder will agree with that.

Also the internals in the 80's were trash as well. Not many 80's motors made it past 90k.

And it's zinc with a c....only the Germans use the k.

[69gumby]

This 3970010 engine I found, I understand this casting was used as a 302, 327 and 350 and it was used in Corvette, Camaro Z28, Trucks from 1969-1980.

My question is. What made the difference in the HP as this casting had horse power anywhere from 165 in the late 70s trucks to 370 in a Corvette.

It's time to open gifts, gotta go but I'll be back.


MERRY CHRISTMAS

[prg machine]

[QUOTE=69gumby;3045959]This 3970010 engine I found, I understand this casting was used as a 302, 327 and 350 and it was used in Corvette, Camaro Z28, Trucks from 1969-1980.

My question is. What made the difference in the HP as this casting had horse power anywhere from 165 in the late 70s trucks to 370 in a Corvette.

the cam, the heads and aspiration. Also the compression ratio. The high power factory vette engines used a domed piston.

[dfosh]

Ill chime in one more time . I will agree the newer rollers are the best if you can find a good rebuildable engine . Also money ,if that is not aproblem do as others have said go to local machine shop they can do whatever you need or want for your engine and the two bolt maine blocks will be fine for 400 to 450 hp. Finding good old stuff is getting harder to do its been all used up .You need to decide what kind of power you want and how you are going to use the truck. If i can post it on here another great site is Hotrodders.com they have great engine info.

[hotrod 80]

[QUOTE=Longhorn Man;3045721]facts;
The vortec heads outflow any stock iron small block head
the 5.7 is just as good as the vintage blocks... not many vintage engines made it 200,000 to 500,000 miles and never been rebuilt
Early 80's engines were just as crumy as most 70's engines, it was the crap on top the engine that made them lame
Zink has been removed from oils for about 2 years now, look into it and it's effect on old school cams.


Nothing but the truth right there.

That said , the block you got will make a nice motor .

[Gray Ghost]

I'm probably gonna get flamed for this but here's a fact...882 heads are prone to cracking. I have 993's on mine and was told they flow better than most others and are very reliable. So far I have 16k on mine and love them. I've got hard pull from 1k rpm all the way up to about 4500 [as far as I have gone on the new motor].

I've had bad luck in the past with two sets of 882 heads and learned my lesson. Everyone I have talked to in person has told me to stay away from them since.

Good score on the block BTW...you'll no doubt be happy with that one and don't fret the low HP....a bit of machine work will get it ready for what you want to do. Nice price too!

[69gumby]

These head numbers you all are talking about are these the last three numbers in a longer number? If so what is the whole number?

Also these vortec heads, will they bolt onto my 3970010 block and will my AC, Alt, Power steering just bolt on.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by 69gumby

These head numbers you all are talking about are these the last three numbers in a longer number? If so what is the whole number?

It's the first three numbers. (Edit: oops should have said last three.)

Also these vortec heads, will they bolt onto my 3970010 block and will my AC, Alt, Power steering just bolt on.

Yes, everything bolts right up. The only difference is the intake manifold and valve covers are different. Vortec intakes and valve covers are readily available. For instance Edlelbrock makes a Vortec version of their Performer RPM and Air Gap intakes.

[Gray Ghost]

Originally Posted by 69gumby

These head numbers you all are talking about are these the last three numbers in a longer number? If so what is the whole number?

Also these vortec heads, will they bolt onto my 3970010 block and will my AC, Alt, Power steering just bolt on.

yes they are....here's the Mortec snip on my heads...

3998993....current..350.........Goodwrench crate motors,"Hecho en Mexico", 75cc chambers

There's another 3998993 head that went on the 72-73 307/350's. I was told the newer ones were better, but in all truth I didn't compare them, there were on flow numbers available for the old ones.

Here's the 882 number....

333882.....74-80...350/400......76cc chambers

[chevybuldr]

Looks like you got a good foundation. A block core alone with 4 bolts with no machine work is about 200.00. Good basic heads for this fine cali fuel I would look for some 882 or 993. They have the hardened seats already. You also though cant go wrong with some new castings. Ask your machinest about some. They are very thick and all set up. Figure they go for about 400-500 bare and maybe about another 100 valves and misc parts. I am in the bay area if you are intersted. Doing this for over 18 years now in the same shop.

[69gumby]

chevybuldr, here are a couple pics of the valley.

[Tx Firefighter]

Here is the Tx Firefighter way of building engines...

I buy a vortec era truck engine core from my local dealership. They charge me 200 for one.

This way, my core comes with the nice, late model one piece rear main seal which don't have leak issues. It also comes with a roller cam and associated roller cam accesories (lifters, valley spider, bolts, shorter pushrods), and a pair of vortec heads.

Yes, they are usually run completely out, but they make great foundations for a build up.

And what Andy said about the zinc being removed from oils is right on the money. The old school flat tappet cams are suffering and will continue to do so. This is an EPA mandate and we have no say in the matter.

[chevybuldr]

Looks pretty good and from the pistons and the freze plugs it looks like nobody has had there hands in it. Get it apart and to the machine shop tell them you want it cleaned and magged for cracks.

The numbers that are being used for heads are all the last three digits of the casting. The late 70s and early 80s heads were known as light weight castings. Pick one up compared to earlier casting and you will noticed a difference. Any head will crack when put under an over heat issue but the later heads dont handle it as well. The 993 and 882 castings were heavy weights. The "hencho EnMexico block used the same casting number as the 993 but was a light weight variotion. Vortec heads are great heads for power but..... They take a different intake and the correct piston for the correct compression needs to used.

The 461 462 head is a camel back design. This has a small combustion chamber thus upping the compression and needing a piston to keep it down. Again before looking into rebuilding a set ask you machinest about new factory replacment heads. We have gotten them for customers and they are beefy thick. Screw in studs and sometimes for a few more $$$ bigger valves.

The oil issue is a huge issue that is never going to die. Oil companies took the zink and other minerals out of the oils and never really told anybody. Go back 5 years ago there were cams going flat like crazy. Call the cam companies and they tell you that you broke it in wrong. When you get your camshaft picked out. You need to also put the break in oil. Not the assembly lube but the break in oil. Its a pint of oil offered from the cam manufacture that ads back what the oil companies took out. You can also use race only oil. If it says not for street use that means it has the minerals in it. I had a nice conversation from George from Clay smith cams and that is what he recomended. He grinds all his own and knows what works. We still give out the break in oil with our motors. Its cheaper in the long run I feel. Also Any cam is going to wear out regardless. I have taken apart many a motor to find the roller cam starting to flake apart on the lobe or even a lifter roller stop rolling.

Your on the right track with your motor. I would pick the early block over a later one any day. Hope that helps.

[Senator350]

Originally Posted by chevybuldr

The 461 462 head is a camel back design. This has a small combustion chamber thus upping the compression and needing a piston to keep it down. Again before looking into rebuilding a set ask you machinest about new factory replacment heads. We have gotten them for customers and they are beefy thick. Screw in studs and sometimes for a few more $$$ bigger valves.

truck motor?
being used as truck motor?
want smaller valves for low end torque, but small chambers.


my 461's are big valved, small chambered, which helps for kepeing 35s rolling uphill at 60, and have p l e n t y of horsepower from a stop.

also, vortecs might outflow, but non-vortecs can make the same horsepower while keeping your intake and valve covers that you can find absolutely anywhere.

[BP68]

go with the vortec heads. Just remember to have the valve guide machined down if you want to run a cam with over something like .470 lift.

[prg machine]

So what heads did I use off of the 400? The machinist said good pick, punched em out for 2.02 intake . Running roller everything with a .509 lift and 1.6 rocker intake.

It is a real cool feel to climb the steepest grades with hardly any pedal and then put your foot down and leave all of the current day trucks way back in your dust. !!! (The Ford boys realy hate it!)

[69gumby]

You guys have been great!!! I got the block torn down last night. The pistons came right out, there is no ridge in the cylinders and no problems anywhere. I have no idea of the milage but it isn't many.

I am going out today to look for some heads, now that I am armed with all the information I have received.

Here is a couple pics of the work bench I was using last night as I was taking the engine apart. 59 degrees, no wind and Christmas light, a nice work bench and a beer.

[Senator350]

Originally Posted by prg machine

So what heads did I use off of the 400? The machinist said good pick, punched em out for 2.02 intake . Running roller everything with a .509 lift and 1.6 rocker intake.

I've heard that 1.6 rockers don't make any horsepower... might be digging in deeper with vortecs and 1.6s, but maybe I'm wrong about the 1.6s.

are you building heads?

[prg machine]

Originally Posted by Senator350

I've heard that 1.6 rockers don't make any horsepower... might be digging in deeper with vortecs and 1.6s, but maybe I'm wrong about the 1.6s.

are you building heads?

The 1.6 is simply more of the same reason we use a higher lift cam.................more intake valve opening results in bigger gulps of Fuel/air mixture means only one thing.............more power. Same difference as bigger valves. I am sure somebody can tear this theory apart, but very simply put, the old school quick power gimmick was to instal a set of 1.6 intake rockers giving your stock cam a higher lift. simple power boost. It's kinda like this...............the more wood in the fire.................the hotter the stove!

[72 Cheyenne402]

If I were to build an engine now for my truck it would be an LS1 there are alot of them out there and cheep to find and build. Not to mention, there are a lot of after market parts to crank the HP.

[69gumby]

If I go old school what about some 920s. I found some but just not sure. I think they are 1.94 and 1.5. I also found some 80's model 14102191 that i think are also 1.94 and 1.5.

If I go with the newer heads, when did they start making the Vortec heads?

[Gray Ghost]

Don't know about the 191's but the 920's should do fine.

[LuckyHenriksen]

nice block

[special-K]

That`s amazing you found no ridge and the block in such good condition since those old blocks are crap.What`s really amazing is that`s how I find them all the time .I stay away from the`80s junk,top to bottom.But,these trucks came with great motors.It`s the top end that goes,everybody knows that.Then it`s might as well do the bottom end time,when you find a beautiful bottom end.Cams have never lasted as long as the rest.But,it`s always advised to do the bottom with the top.The SBC gained it`s widespread great reputation from those great early blocks.
You`ll be very happy with this motor,I`m sure.I bought a complete 327 w/TH400 pulled from a`68 truck for $200.It has a large journal forged crank and was beautiful inside,no surprises there.I had it built to 325hp specs including him swapping my truck heads for higher hp rated ones.I picked it up all painted and with a dual plane air gap manifold for $1,300.So,I have $1,500 in it and still have a TH400 to sell.There are oils and additives to keep proper oil specs in an older motor.