Foul plugs and oil leak I cant trace

[rs72z]

Like has been said sevral times check the intake. If it's not sealed good on the bottom it will suck quite a bit of oil into the cylinders. Then after it sits the oil will start seeping around the threads. Pull the intake and look in the ports if it's leaking there will be oil in the ports. Leaking vacuum will also cause it to run rough.

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by rs72z

Like has been said sevral times check the intake. If it's not sealed good on the bottom it will suck quite a bit of oil into the cylinders. Then after it sits the oil will start seeping around the threads. Pull the intake and look in the ports if it's leaking there will be oil in the ports. Leaking vacuum will also cause it to run rough.

yes...thats probably my last resort. It could well be it, because the two plugs are fouling from the top. so it may be oil coming in from the intake valve?

I got another question.

how can I check if the fluid on the outside of my engine is oil or coolant? since there isnt any oil in the heads on the outside, where the engine is wet...

[rs72z]

Looks to me like it's seaping from the valve covers at the rear corners. What type of gaskets did they use on the valve covers? Cork? It's best to get some felpro rubber gaskets and make sure the sealing rails on the valve covers are flat and true.

[riz]

Again, check the valve covers. You haven't said you tightened them or checked the gaskets.

riz

[kikkegek]

tested a hotter plug for two days...was hoping it would fix the fouling.

here's the result after two day

[rs72z]

The hotter plug might stop your fouling for a while but it's just hiding a bigger problem that still needs to be adressed.
How much oil is it using?

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by rs72z

The hotter plug might stop your fouling for a while but it's just hiding a bigger problem that still needs to be adressed.
How much oil is it using?

I need to check on a flat service tomorrow...will check...

[gGMC DOG]

cylinder head porting The bottom of the stud isn't really entering into port. When porting, a person will 'break through' exposing the bottom of the(otherwise blind) threaded hole the stud is screwed into."

When porting, I didn't go any deeper than 2'' into the ports

[rs72z]

I thought about this also but, the heads had press in studs unless they were modified for screw in. Right?

[1981Sturgis]

Have you retorqued the intake yet?

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by 1981Sturgis

Have you retorqued the intake yet?

shop said it is a non-re-torqueable gasket, so they didnt want to re-torque it.

disconnected the PCV this afternoon, put a bolt in the hose and took it for a 1 mile highway drive.

I was hoping the PCV was sucking in too much oil into the intake manifold, because it looks wet from oil when I take it out.

brand new plug turned up like this:

top


bottom:



again black on top, clean on the bottom and oil on the threads till the tapered end.

[rs72z]

If they wont check the bolts it might be time for a new shop.

Just put a wrench on all of them and see if they are tight. Start in the middle and work your way out. I have seen intakes that i put on get loose many times, it's just from the gasket shrinking some with heat cycles.

Does the heads have screw in rocker studs?

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by rs72z

If they wont check the bolts it might be time for a new shop.

Just put a wrench on all of them and see if they are tight. Start in the middle and work your way out. I have seen intakes that i put on get loose many times, it's just from the gasket shrinking some with heat cycles.

Does the heads have screw in rocker studs?

I think I have a torque wrench. I'll see 2nite if I can use to retorque the heads? or intake manifold?

and this is a picture of my rockers...dont know if they are screw in type? how can you see?

[Firebirdjones]

Those are press in rocker studs.

If you are certain the heads aren't the cause, and the PCV has been eliminated as a culprit, then it's probably sucking oil thorugh the valley (under the intake).

Short block have alot of miles on it? And why is there a gloppy mess of oil laying on the intake under the carb? That's where an intake bolt would be. Looks like who ever installed the intake didn't put thread sealant on the threads and it's pushing oil through the bolts.....Very common mistake. That would be enough to make me want to pull the intake and check the gasket seal and clean things up. And just so you don't have to do it again, I'd check the bottom of the intake for flatness to be absolutely sure it will clamp evenly for a good seal. I've had those old cast iron intakes warped before.

[wyattglock]

I agree with rs72z, if they don't want to take 5 minutes and check the torque, go somewhere else.
I would still remove and check the intake. Maybe the gasket isn't seated properly. Or a couple of bolts aren't tight.
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[kikkegek]

checked 2nite and used a boxed wrench.

result:
the bolts with the red circle felt pretty loose and could easily be fastened a little more and are not even snug right now to my opinion. The other I couldnt move with my small boxed wrench

[rs72z]

Originally Posted by kikkegek

checked 2nite and used a boxed wrench.

result:
the bolts with the red circle felt pretty loose and could easily be fastened a little more and are not even snug right now to my opinion. The other I couldnt move with my small boxed wrench

What plugs were getting wet?

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by rs72z

What plugs were getting wet?

cylinders 1 and 5

[rs72z]

Hows it running with good plugs in?

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by rs72z

Hows it running with good plugs in?

it runs super with fresh clean plugs...good response, easy idle, etc...

just gets black on top quickly

[kikkegek]

somebody pointed me to a nice video. Its show how the fuel flows over the spark plug from one side...thus when taking along oil from an kinda leak from above the valve, fouling it while taking in fuel.

inside an engine - YouTube

[Desert1957]

Here is my best guess...

You said the Heads were "Replaced" or "Re-Done" , that term is used a lot and can mean anything.

Were the valve guides re-done? and not just knurled? What valve seals were installed? If you had "Teflon" seals installed , all of the bosses on the heads must be machined. Big$$$$ This is a very expensive machine shop procedure. I have heard many shop quotes that often exceed the price of a new pair of heads and will try and discourage people from spending that much on an old pair of stock heads.

Re-doing a cylinder-head the correct way is a multi-step process that gets very pricey.

If you paid less than $500 , you probably got the quick y repair. Which doesn't guarantee no oil consumption.

Did they machine the Heads? If so they may have taken too much material off , which can lead to sealing problems at the intake gasket area. The head can be low enough where its sucking crankcase air at the lower edge.

If the heads were machined, the intake now does not match like it use too and may need to be machined at the mating surface. which can cause gasket sealing problems.

You never mentioned anything about the Short Block itself, How many miles? Is it the Original engine? What did the tops of the pistons look like with the heads off? Were the clean or crusty build up on top?

I ask these questions because it still could be a cracked top oil control ring which doesn't effect compression. Engine can run great with good power but still foul plugs quickly and have issues trying to push the extra un- burned oil out.

[Desert1957]

After looking at the pictures again, this is WAY too much oil for an intake leak. This looks like the cylinder is being overrun with oil. I thinking rings at this point. If it was a valve guide seepage problem only the side facing the intake valve would be crusty, Your plug is completely covered which means the oil is filling the whole cylinder.

Desert

[kikkegek]

Originally Posted by Desert1957

Here is my best guess...

You said the Heads were "Replaced" or "Re-Done" , that term is used a lot and can mean anything.

Were the valve guides re-done? and not just knurled? What valve seals were installed? If you had "Teflon" seals installed , all of the bosses on the heads must be machined. Big$$$$ This is a very expensive machine shop procedure. I have heard many shop quotes that often exceed the price of a new pair of heads and will try and discourage people from spending that much on an old pair of stock heads.

Re-doing a cylinder-head the correct way is a multi-step process that gets very pricey.

If you paid less than $500 , you probably got the quick y repair. Which doesn't guarantee no oil consumption.

Did they machine the Heads? If so they may have taken too much material off , which can lead to sealing problems at the intake gasket area. The head can be low enough where its sucking crankcase air a the lower edge.

If the heads were machined, the intake now does not match like it use too and may need to be machined at the mating surface. which can cause gasket sealing problems.

You never mentioned anything about the Short Block itself, How many miles? Is it the Original engine? What did the tops of the pistons look like with the heads off? Were the clean or crusty build up on top?

I ask these questions because it still could be a cracked top oil control ring which doesn't effect compression. Engine can run great with good power but still foul plugs quickly and have issues trying to push the extra un- burned oil out.

I paid €1600,- for the whole job:
heads were completely redone,
new stem valve seals teflon
new bronze guides
new hydraulic lifters
heads were flattened (machined)

dont know all other details...

I didnt see the cilinders and pistons, but they told me the walls were smooth, no sign of bad rings or excessive wear, so no need to do a full engine rebuild...that is why I have a hard time right now to accept that they say its probably my rings now...

I have noticed that along the intakegasket its a little wet and in some places there is a small puddle of very thick oil...I need to clean that of and see how quick it build up again...

I am planning on pulling the intake off when I get back from summer holiday..southern france...600 mie drive back and forth with the suburban...

I'll report back here of course

[tucsonjwt]

Everything I know about engines you can put in a thimble and have a lot of room left over, but every engine I ever had with that amount of oil/crud on the plugs had bad rings.
I no longer believe in rebuilt engines. I think once you crack a factory engine open and start fiddling around with it you never get it back together as well as the factory did. All rebuilt engines I have had were not very good. The only exception is my current 83 with a Goodwrench rebuilt 454, but my experience with 454s is that they run smooth if properly tuned even if they have some slop in the engine.