Chevy 350 OE Roller or Hydraulic Roller

[king-918]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

Yeah I understand, I appreciate the help. I'm going to need help along the way and I definitely am not afraid to ask questions that's for sure. I'm honestly trying to keep the motor that's in the truck right now, I understand that I'll need A LOT of things to help get what I want, but as well I know it can be done. I'm personally kind of set of keeping it flat tappet. Thank you for all the help.

Thanks for all the help guys I will be keeping everyone updated as I do certain things I also created my own thread for my project build, if you guys want to follow and see my progress, but I'm for sure going to be asking for help I'm sure.

You may want to listen to "mrhino" I have spent about $3,700 building a lLT4 Hot Cam retro block. The smart thing would have been to buy a roller or LS. You have a resource I did not at the time of my build. Youo did say loud, and fast. My setup will make about. 410HP W/O bottle

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by king-918

You may want to listen to "mrhino" I have spent about $3,700 building a lLT4 Hot Cam retro block. The smart thing would have been to buy a roller or LS. You have a resource I did not at the time of my build. You did say loud, and fast. My setup will make about. 410HP W/ bottle

Yeah, I understand I just don't want to go spend the money on a newer block I'm trying to keep it as original as I can, don't get me wrong I would love to have 400HP at the rear wheels, but if I don't I won't be heartbroken because like I stated its going to be more of a show truck than anything.

[Corts60]

Sweet man, let's keep it flat tappet, get a good set of heads and induction. You can talk with Schneider cams in San Diego after you get all of the bolt on accessories and tell them what you're bolting on the engine, what trans and rear end you have, what tires you run and what you're looking for HP. They'll make you a cam to match your set-up and get the best bang for your buck.

[mrhino]

I think for you and what you have and want the flat tappet is the way to go. just a little info: many things determine what makes the best cam profile for any particular engine. You need to ask yourself honestly where is the engine going to spend most of its life? you dont want to build a 400hp @6000 rpm engine that gets drivin around town stop light to stop light @ 2500 rpm. and the other thing, I built many engines that make good power and I went after each one from the angle of making good torque and not some much HP. you make good useable torque the HP. will come. what ever way you decide to go, build your engine on paper first. Figure out where you want your powerband then buy your components for that goal. then get your cam last. Dyno 2000 is a great program but you must have all the right info to use it to its full potential. that means you need all the combustion chamber measurements cylinder head flow numbers true Cfm numbers, and other measurements before dyno can point you in the right direction for your cam. If you havn't noticed by now there are many opinions on this forum. do your own research take everyones input, but come to your own conclusions.

[BigBlocksRule]

Originally Posted by king-918

I got tired of reading so this may be redundent but DO NOT use roller lifters on a non-roller block. You will starve for oil and destroy the block, lifters and cam. DO buy a retro kit like from lunati it will com with retrollifters and cam. You will need a cam button and melonized gear for your dist. May have forgot other stuff button im at the gym now

Where did this come from??? There's thousands of older 350's out there running hydraulic rollers with NO issues. As long as restrictors are not installed in the oil galleys, you won't starve anything for oil. There's an ebay ad for a set of plans to use to convert an older block to use the OEM spider and dogbones, but those are shorter V-6 lifters and after all the machine work is done, it would be about the same price to buy new link-bar retrofit rollers and be done with it.
No need to buy a kit, pick your rollers and pick your cam. You will need a cam button, but the rest is pretty much straight forward. You might be able to save a bit of cash with a kit, though.

[king-918]

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

Where did this come from??? There's thousands of older 350's out there running hydraulic rollers with NO issues. As long as restrictors are not installed in the oil galleys, you won't starve anything for oil. There's an ebay ad for a set of plans to use to convert an older block to use the OEM spider and dogbones, but those are shorter V-6 lifters and after all the machine work is done, it would be about the same price to buy new link-bar retrofit rollers and be done with it.
No need to buy a kit, pick your rollers and pick your cam. You will need a cam button, but the rest is pretty much straight forward. You might be able to save a bit of cash with a kit, though.

This comes from personal experence and trying not to confuse someone with limited knowlege and the v8 lifters will starve for oil because they will block they passage

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by Corts60

Sweet man, let's keep it flat tappet, get a good set of heads and induction. You can talk with Schneider cams in San Diego after you get all of the bolt on accessories and tell them what you're bolting on the engine, what trans and rear end you have, what tires you run and what you're looking for HP. They'll make you a cam to match your set-up and get the best bang for your buck.

Awesome!!! I appreciate the help Corts60. I'm going to keep Schneider cams in mind for my cam then, I kind of want to have my own cam that's built best for my truck and I can say I have the only cam like this in the world.

[BigBlocksRule]

Originally Posted by king-918

This comes from personal experence and trying not to confuse someone with limited knowlege and the v8 lifters will starve for oil because they will block they passage

Are you trying to run OEM lifters in an old style block? I've run several sets of retrofits with no issues.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by mrhino

I think for you and what you have and want the flat tappet is the way to go. just a little info: many things determine what makes the best cam profile for any particular engine. You need to ask yourself honestly where is the engine going to spend most of its life? you dont want to build a 400hp @6000 rpm engine that gets drivin around town stop light to stop light @ 2500 rpm. and the other thing, I built many engines that make good power and I went after each one from the angle of making good torque and not some much HP. you make good useable torque the HP. will come. what ever way you decide to go, build your engine on paper first. Figure out where you want your powerband then buy your components for that goal. then get your cam last. Dyno 2000 is a great program but you must have all the right info to use it to its full potential. that means you need all the combustion chamber measurements cylinder head flow numbers true Cfm numbers, and other measurements before dyno can point you in the right direction for your cam. If you havn't noticed by now there are many opinions on this forum. do your own research take everyones input, but come to your own conclusions.

Yeah, the majority of it's life when it's finally complete will be car shows and an occasional track visit just to go have a night out with the guys and burn through some tires. I understand what you mean about having 400HP@6000RPM doing in town driving that 400HP will rarely get used, I'm asking for your advice and everyone elses as well I'm thinking the best powerband for it, will be 3500-5000RPM? Because I'll still be able to drop the pedal and get the horses out of it. I am definitely taking everyones input because everyone knows what there talking about where as I'm a rookie to doing big engine mods, and I want to know what benefits the truck in the longhaul.

[mopar346]

I would concentrate on a powerband of 1500-4500 maybe 5200 or so but not much over 5500.

You are getting a lot of info thrown at you from a lot or different view points, read and absorb but in the end you may be best to find a local builder and write the check. At the very least take your component selection from a known/proven combination. Mixing and matching can lead to BIG disaappointment if you don't really know what your doing. I would say build a proven, solid bottom end and make HP out of the heads.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by mopar346

I would concentrate on a powerband of 1500-4500 maybe 5200 or so but not much over 5500.

You are getting a lot of info thrown at you from a lot or different view points, read and absorb but in the end you may be best to find a local builder and write the check. At the very least take your component selection from a known/proven combination. Mixing and matching can lead to BIG disaappointment if you don't really know what your doing. I would say build a proven, solid bottom end and make HP out of the heads.

When I was saying the powerband at 3500-5000RPM, I was meaning that's where I want my 400HP to kick in, but I do agree agree on the powerband being from 1500-5000.

I will definitely agree, I have a link saved on my desktop at work and at home that I'm following along with that actually get me close to 400HP if not maybe a little over. Of course there using a crate 350, so I understand some of the items are different such as the cams for example they used hydraulic roller, where as most likely I'll be using the hydraulic flat tappet cam, I would say the only thing I'm doing different than what they are doing are brand names I know, I'm going to be using Edelbrock Heads, Either Kooks or Hooker Headers, Either a Crane Cam or get one specifically built for my motor, and then possibly looking at some forged pistons as well.

[king-918]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Not related, but I need to get with you sometime soon for one of those auto dimming mirrors that display the outside temperature. I meant to get in touch with you a while back and forgot.

You can go to the salvage yatd and find about an 89 buick. For. An option
Posted via Mobile Device

[king-918]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

When I was saying the powerband at 3500-5000RPM, I was meaning that's where I want my 400HP to kick in, but I do agree agree on the powerband being from 1500-5000.

I will definitely agree, I have a link saved on my desktop at work and at home that I'm following along with that actually get me close to 400HP if not maybe a little over. Of course there using a crate 350, so I understand some of the items are different such as the cams for example they used hydraulic roller, where as most likely I'll be using the hydraulic flat tappet cam, I would say the only thing I'm doing different than what they are doing are brand names I know, I'm going to be using Edelbrock Heads, Either Kooks or Hooker Headers, Either a Crane Cam or get one specifically built for my motor, and then possibly looking at some forged pistons as well.

Good read http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...cam_355_build/
Posted via Mobile Device

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by king-918

Good read http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...cam_355_build/
Posted via Mobile Device

Thanks King-918, I appreciate it correct me if I'm wrong the only thing that really would separate that motor from mine is that it has a roller cam in it correct?

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by mrhino

I think for you and what you have and want the flat tappet is the way to go. just a little info: many things determine what makes the best cam profile for any particular engine. You need to ask yourself honestly where is the engine going to spend most of its life? you dont want to build a 400hp @6000 rpm engine that gets drivin around town stop light to stop light @ 2500 rpm. and the other thing, I built many engines that make good power and I went after each one from the angle of making good torque and not some much HP. you make good useable torque the HP. will come. what ever way you decide to go, build your engine on paper first. Figure out where you want your powerband then buy your components for that goal. then get your cam last. Dyno 2000 is a great program but you must have all the right info to use it to its full potential. that means you need all the combustion chamber measurements cylinder head flow numbers true Cfm numbers, and other measurements before dyno can point you in the right direction for your cam. If you havn't noticed by now there are many opinions on this forum. do your own research take everyones input, but come to your own conclusions.

Solid advice here. I love the high rpm screamers, but I get more fun out of my big block chevelle than I do the 69 Z. Keep in mind since you are building a truck (think big boxy and heavy) I'd concentrate on making torque throughout the rpm range rather than a peaky engine just like Mrhino describes here. A peaky engine will require more rear gear to extract all of it, and that generally means less highway friendly too.

With a 350 I'd keep the cylinder head intake runner smallish (180-200cc) along with a dual plane air gap manifold, run a streetable compression ratio matched to a camshaft that provides what you are looking for. A well thought out combination like this will make 400 crank HP and still be fun on the street. The better the cylinder head the easier it will be to make that power and you'll be able to keep the camshaft much more tame.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

Solid advice here. I love the high rpm screamers, but I get more fun out of my big block chevelle than I do the 69 Z. Keep in mind since you are building a truck (think big boxy and heavy) I'd concentrate on making torque throughout the rpm range rather than a peaky engine just like Mrhino describes here. A peaky engine will require more rear gear to extract all of it, and that generally means less highway friendly too.

With a 350 I'd keep the cylinder head intake runner smallish (180-200cc) along with a dual plane air gap manifold, run a streetable compression ratio matched to a camshaft that provides what you are looking for. A well thought out combination like this will make 400 crank HP and still be fun on the street. The better the cylinder head the easier it will be to make that power and you'll be able to keep the camshaft much more tame.

Awesome!!! thanks for the tips everyone has been so helpful in giving me feedback with what I want to do and things to help me achieve my goal as well. The cylinder heads I'm going to run 185cc and its supposed to bump my compression up to between a 9:1-9:5:1 compression, I was going to do dual plane air gap manifold but when I read the link that king-918 gave me the single plane is better for the numbers, and then I believe I found a cam that will work but I think I'm going to follow Corts60 said and give Schneider a call and see about getting a custom cam made that benefits my truck the best overall.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

Awesome!!! thanks for the tips everyone has been so helpful in giving me feedback with what I want to do and things to help me achieve my goal as well. The cylinder heads I'm going to run 185cc and its supposed to bump my compression up to between a 9:1-9:5:1 compression, I was going to do dual plane air gap manifold but when I read the link that king-918 gave me the single plane is better for the numbers, and then I believe I found a cam that will work but I think I'm going to follow Corts60 said and give Schneider a call and see about getting a custom cam made that benefits my truck the best overall.

The single plane will put up the HP numbers but generally they will kill the mid range torque and hurt the curve up through the rpm range,,,probably as far as 4500 or so depending on the cam choice. The dual plane air gap will shine everywhere below 4500 on the dyno in most cases (think big heavy truck ) I might consider a single plane at 400+ cubes for a street motor, that is unless I was building a screamer small engine that I planned to spin tight...

What I've found on the dyno is the RPM Air Gap dual planes respond very well to a 1" open spacer, it's cheap HP. I have found a 10-12hp increase with the addition of a simple spacer with no loss in lower rpm torque curve. Since you have the hood clearance it might be a good experiment if you plan to spend some dyno time,,,,or even at the track, it's a simple swap in the pits.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Awesome thanks firebirdjones!! I'll look into that. So that I'm making sure I'm understanding correctly, I should stick with a Dual Plane manifold in order to keep everything and it wont have as much as an effect on a torque curve that it should stay pretty firm all the way?

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

Awesome thanks firebirdjones!! I'll look into that. So that I'm making sure I'm understanding correctly, I should stick with a Dual Plane manifold in order to keep everything and it wont have as much as an effect on a torque curve that it should stay pretty firm all the way?

If it were mine, I would stick with a good quality dual plane, but that really depends on what end result you want and your intentions with the truck.

400 hp is easily done with a dual plane on a 350, with good heads and the right camshaft. You just have to be honest and ask yourself what you really want out of this thing.

Me personally, with a 350 engine sitting there, and assuming you need machine work on everything,,,I'd go straight for a 383 rotating assembly since they are so reasonably priced. So there you go,,,I just threw another curve ball in here

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

If it were mine, I would stick with a good quality dual plane, but that really depends on what end result you want and your intentions with the truck.

400 hp is easily done with a dual plane on a 350, with good heads and the right camshaft. You just have to be honest and ask yourself what you really want out of this thing.

Me personally, with a 350 engine sitting there, and assuming you need machine work on everything,,,I'd go straight for a 383 rotating assembly since they are so reasonably priced. So there you go,,,I just threw another curve ball in here

The end result is to have a show quality truck, but with HP in it to use if I ever want to get on the gas, and watch that gas gauge go down slow

thanks for the curveball, I'm going to stick with the 350 though because it's what I bought with it in, and I want to keep as original possible, but if I ever feel like going big and bad I want to put a 454 in it.

[mopar346]

Dual plane for low through midrange torque/hp.

Singe plan for sustained high rpm hp ( think 2 speed on the matt high stall speed)

Dual plane for most if not all street appplications.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by mopar346

Dual plane for low through midrange torque/hp.

Singe plan for sustained high rpm hp ( think 2 speed on the matt high stall speed)

Dual plane for most if not all street appplications.

Okay awesome appreciate it all the help guys slowly getting everything together in my mind and on paper with what I want.

[Jonboy]

Sharkbite, I have read through most of this thread, and have seen a lot of opinions given. If I were you, I would find a reputable engine builder in your area, and see what they might have to say. Finding someone local will also give you somewhere to go after teh engine is done as well. There is a machinist fairly local to you that sells engines on ebay. I would check him out, at least as a reference. http://myworld.ebay.com/1951herb&ssP...84.m1543.l2533

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

thanks for the curveball, I'm going to stick with the 350 though because it's what I bought with it in, and I want to keep as original possible,

Just tell everyone it's a 350, it would still look identical on the outside

[77ChevySharkBite]

Originally Posted by Jonboy

Sharkbite, I have read through most of this thread, and have seen a lot of opinions given. If I were you, I would find a reputable engine builder in your area, and see what they might have to say. Finding someone local will also give you somewhere to go after teh engine is done as well. There is a machinist fairly local to you that sells engines on ebay. I would check him out, at least as a reference. http://myworld.ebay.com/1951herb&ssP...84.m1543.l2533

I appreciate it Jonboy, I know there have been a lot of opinions and so on and so forth but there also leading me in the right direction so that's what is good for me, and you've read a lot of the thread, you've seen the biggest issue is with the Cam, and the manifold other than that nobody has really said what I'm doing is bad, I'll have to get in touch with the ebay seller and throw things his way and talk to a few other friends that have done stuff to there 350's as well. I definitely do appreciate the advice and link to the seller.