Load Capacity: Tow Hooks

[jocko]

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

[dazza]

Originally Posted by jocko

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

Well said.

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by dazza

Well said.

X2, nicely written Jocko.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by jocko

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

Agree. And that's why drop forged is going to be the process.
Here's a question for you... Who is liable if the mounting bolts shear off and the hook still comes flying off?

[trac209]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

Agree. And that's why drop forged is going to be the process.
Here's a question for you... Who is liable if the mounting bolts shear off and the hook still comes flying off?

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by trac209

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

They are going to be drop forged (as the originals were), not cast steel. I may be wrong, but I believe there is a big difference.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by trac209

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

I don't recall any comments about product testing not being done. They will be done.

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

I don't recall any comments about product testing not being done. They will be done.

Maybe not, but in the thread that was mysteriously sucked into oblivion, you said you had already sold some, so apparently you haphazardly moved some product to make some cash in lieu of testing.
It's odd your thread disappeared after I ask you to show us the process, if any, of such testing.

[dazza]

And how can one eject people if he/she themself is not a 'administrative' person?

[mike16]

it gotten kinda silly this thread.. I recall some one posting a threat to manufacture and sell replica hooks at an autrageous price. they were cast iron ore something like that. I seemed to me that for the price they were asking , the hooks should have been forged simple to replicate the safety feature as well. Somebody els suggested that maybe plastic ones wer justified if it was only for appearence.

there is a safety factor involved, I dont think cheap cast iron or plasic are the way to go. and maybe they will be used and maybe they ont ever be used but I would be outraged if myself or somebody else was injured because of some short cut on safety was taked to bring these parts to market.

I dont get it. I can buy tow hooks, forged steel ones made in china, for about 14 bucks a pair. Why cant we make them here in the USA and charge 50, 75 or even 100 bucks a pair. and still allow the horrible price gouging that the market allows.

the level of exploitation in this market is what offends me the most. I cannot believe somebody would start pumping cheap knock off substandard parts into the system. Now the whole market is ruined. I was interested in buying hooks new or used for my truck, now.....never at any price because the markey is contminated with forgeries.....rather than forged parts. You ruin the market when you pump fakes into it. the good new istal I can now spend that money soe where else. too bad for the hook market