Do you really need to move the gas tank for safety?

[hdff]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

In the extremely rare and highly unlikely instance that the fuel tank would explode, the blast radius of a tank of gas makes it lethal within a few dozen feet, and shrapnel even further. I always reference IED's and Humvees in this instance. That's a buried explosive under an armored Humvee and can still prove to be highly lethal. Case in point, combustible fluids are dangerous regardless of location on the vehicle.

for something to "explode" it would have to be able build pressure and i don't think that the gas cap will let that happen.

Originally Posted by IHeartGroceries

The single thing one might consider is their personal health, possibly breathing any escaped or leaking vapors. It'd otherwise take a very heavy dose to ignite, and you'd long be pulled over to the side of the road, overcome with vapor inhalation before you ignited the vapors/source. As long as everything is sealed up and good to go, I don't see any inherent dangers beyond any other vehicle.

really? you have got to be kidding me.... are you serious???

[leftybass209]

For those of you interested in helping defend against fuel fires, a good place to start is removing the rubber fuel line from pump to carb. It's the "oh I just put that on there to get it running, but haven't changed it in 3 years hose"! too soon perhaps?

[wreckedchevy]

Originally Posted by Spartan

It's pretty hard to make a gas tank explode...as you mention.
Myth busters did a show on it.
For the rear tank scenario the ford pinto come to mind.
I shot a propane tank with my 308 and it just vented. Turns out a 900 degree spark is needed...so...some tannerite and tracer rounds did the job.
still, some extra space would be nice too

we did the same thing and it just vented so we started a fire next to the next one and shot it and BOOM! good times

[Steve Hafner]

. . . .

I think THIS guy had the right idea !!!

. . . .

[Keith Seymore]

I was not able to find any documentation of '67-'72 Chevy pickup vehicle fires attributable to fuel tank location at the National Highway Traffic Safety Adminstration site.

When I did my analysis of the square body fuel tank location I used NHTSA's data of 1800 fire related deaths across 500 billion accumulated miles during the square body lifecycle.

The net result was that you were twice as likely to win the lottery, 14 times more likely to die in a plane crash and 370 times more likely to be hit by lightning (the standard by which these types of discussions are judged) than to die in a fire in a squarebody pickup.

When reviewing this information with my daughter, as a sense check, she wisely observed that (because of the "slip and fall" statistic) you are safer riding in a pickup truck than you are walking.

K

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Wincks -

You didn't ask for my opinion, but - because this is a topic I get somewhat emotional about (...I apologize in advance...) - I'm going to give it to you:

If your motivation in moving the tank is because of safety I think you are wasting your time.

It sounds like you may have done some reading, and so you may have already seen this thread, but I would ask you to read it again:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=379580

My editorial comments are documented there, although perhaps not as eloquently as I would have liked.

Secondly, your comments re-piqued my curiosity about this topic, so I did some (hopefully detatched and unemotional) research:

I wondered "...how many deaths were there, really, as a result of this?". So I did a quick internet search.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has documented what they believe to be 1800 fire related fatalities in '73 - '91 C/K and R/V trucks, from 1973 through calendar year 2000.

First off, in looking at the data, from what I can tell they don't distinguish between pickup, Blazer and Suburban - the later two which would not have side saddle type tanks - so the actual number will be somewhat smaller than the 1800.

Secondly, if you read through the data, it does not distinguish between "fire" as the cause of death vs "fire as a result of side saddle tanks" as a cause of death. Many of the fatalities occurred as a result of single vehicle accidents where the truck struck a tree or a pole or a bridge abutment. One could assume that in those cases the vehicle was moving forward, likely longitudinally (and perhaps at a moderately high rate of speed), and the fact that the tank was mounted on the side of the vehicle would be moot. (That is, these were not situations where the victim vehicle was T boned in the side - specifically the side that the tank was on - resulting in fire). This would also reduce NHTSA's number of fatalities directly attributable to side saddle tanks.

Lastly, in reviewing their data, in some cases there were two, three or even four people involved some of the vehicle incidents. So - the number of vehicles impacted (ie, specific crash events) was something less than 1800, like 1200 or so.

However, for the purposes of this discussion, let's do some math and use their number of 1800:

NHTSA estimates there were roughly 10 million of these vehicles produced (Note: I think that's low, 15 plus model years many of which were more than 1 million per year - but again we'll use their number). If we assume each of those vehicles traveled 50,000 miles in their lifetime (again, I am choosing a low number on purpose, as mine has nearly 200,000 miles) then the number of miles traveled in these types of vehicles would be 500,000,000,000 - hopefully that's 5 with 11 zeros behind it, or 500 billion miles.

I am relating it to miles traveled because that's the factor that causes you to be "exposed" to something bad happening. Said differently, there's really no danger when the vehicle is just sitting in the driveway. 500 billion miles - that's a lot of "exposure".

Your odds of dying in a fiery death, then, according to NHTSA would be that number divided by 1800 or 1 in 277,000,000. One in 277 million.

Just to give this number some perspective, I did a quick check on some other comparable statistics: your odds of winning the lottery, according to one website, are one in 120 million. Your odds of being killed on a commercial airline flight are one in 19 million. Your odds of being struck by lightning, the standard of measure in this type of thing, are one in 750,000. If you prefer a "straight up" numbers-to-numbers comparison, I found that there are roughly 12,000 deaths attributed to "slip and fall" incidents each year.

So basically you are twice as likely to win the lottery, 14 times more likely to die in a plane crash and 370 times more likely to be hit by lightning than to be killed in one of these trucks as a result of fire, according to data from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

For those of you interested in helping defend against fuel fires, a good place to start is removing the rubber fuel line from pump to carb. It's the "oh I just put that on there to get it running, but haven't changed it in 3 years hose"! too soon perhaps?

Those glass/plastic transparent fuel filters are a bad idea, too.

K

[Lattimer]

I don't see a safety issue. You can argue that the fumes are unpleasant, but a properly sealed tank won't release any inside the cab. Took me a while to get that completely squared away.

Otherwise, its personal choice. I decided not to move the tank, I actually installed a new tank in the stock location to replace the old cruddy and leaking one. I didn't want to have to deal with the hole in the side of the cab or figuring out where to put the filler. I also solved the leaking gas cap issue, so even completely full in a hard right turn I get no leakage.

I personally like the vintage feel, and I love watching the attendant look for the gas cap all over the truck (full service only in NJ).

[zeldman]

Only if your name is Ralph Nader... and you feel Unsafe at Any Speed.

I think one of the fears of the side filler was that in case of a roll over the filler cap and neck could be ripped off, then gas spilling, then a fire.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

In the extremely rare and highly unlikely instance that the fuel tank would explode, the blast radius of a tank of gas makes it lethal within a few dozen feet, and shrapnel even further. I always reference IED's and Humvees in this instance. That's a buried explosive under an armored Humvee and can still prove to be highly lethal. Case in point, combustible fluids are dangerous regardless of location on the vehicle.

I've personally seen a turret blown off an M-1 Abrams by an IED (triple-stacked anti-tank mine, Operation Iraqi Freedom, 2004-2005), but we're talking about gasoline, NOT high explosives. There is absolutely no comparison.

The biggest problem with the tank behind the seat is when the hoses or tank seal begin leaking. But that's not a reason to relocate the tank.

[jeffahart]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Do you have any information from a credible, impartial party concerning the dangers of an in - cab tank specific to 67-72 Chevrolet trucks, and do you have enough information to show a repeatable pattern to lend creed to the phrase "track record"? I ask because I've searched myself and only come up with 3rd party Google stories with little to no verifiable evidence.

Not saying the in cab has a negative track record. Just the opposite. What I'm saying is: look at the track record, it's good; and you don't have to Google anything. I've driven just about every type of old pickup with behind the seat tank. I've no need to Google anything. I've been in a few bad wrecks in trucks with behind the seat tanks. And the only thing I've been burned on is TAXES.

[jjzepplin]

I just love all the room I have now. Four 12" subs will be at home there now. 35 gallon tank will not be filled up much and helps keep the butt to the ground.
Pro's and Con's to everything I guess.

[68gmsee]

Do you need to move it? From reading all the posts it's more of a mental thing than a safety issue.

Here's what I deduced.

-If you feel safer with it in the back then move it.
-Do you want room for tools and speakers, move it.
-If you don't like the smell of fuel on occasion when the cap vents, move it.
-Is it a safety issue, no.
-Is money and labor of moving it an issue, leave it as is.
-Do you want the truck to be as original as possible, leave it where it is.

[beetle1960]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

For those of you interested in helping defend against fuel fires, a good place to start is removing the rubber fuel line from pump to carb. It's the "oh I just put that on there to get it running, but haven't changed it in 3 years hose"! too soon perhaps?

...

[AirSpeed]

I remember seeing a 60 Minutes episode where they were talking about our trucks gas tanks, they showed it rolling on the side, knocking the cap off and exploding. GM sued them because it turned out 60 Minutes tried to get the truck to burst into flames several times and finally resorted to using a small rocket motor attacked to the filler neck to ignite the gas. You could see it in the video.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

I only want to relocate my fuel tank so that I can carry more junk behind the seat (carry anything at all back there). Is the gas tank inside the cab really a safety issue as some have claimed it to be?

The safest place for the tank is the place in the vehicle where it's least likely to be punctured in the event of an accident, and behind the rear axle is a comparatively dangerous place to put it. 23-30% of all auto accidents are rear end collisions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rear-end_collision

Crown Victoria police vehicles have the gas tank in the rear.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWJv_Hyu9-c

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Spartan

It's pretty hard to make a gas tank explode...as you mention.
Myth busters did a show on it.
For the rear tank scenario the ford pinto come to mind.
I shot a propane tank with my 308 and it just vented. Turns out a 900 degree spark is needed...so...some tannerite and tracer rounds did the job.
still, some extra space would be nice too

The Walking Dead, season 5 episode 1 a woman shoots a hole in a large propane or natural gas tank producing a vent, then shot the fire arrow and made a loud boom! Rare to see what really happens on TV.

[boraxman]

I have never felt uncomfortable with the tank in the cab but I am going with an under the bed tank only for my 5.3 and future power adder.

[PanelDeland]

I've owned 4 of these trucks and many others. I've never owned a truck with the tank in the cab. None of the trucks I've ever owned have had the tank moved. I see it as a way to make more room and get rid of the fumes. I tend to think the fumes are the bigger reason that they moved the tank, along with more room.
The best way to avoid the issue, build a 'Burb, Blazer or Panel. They all had tanks behind the rear axle from the factory.

[Dunenutt]

I personally thought, " What if?" So I moved the tank to the rear, and added seats with headrests. Now I wont be unconscious and fried, after a rear end collision. Collisions with any other surface of the truck are still terminal though.

[sstone69]

When I had my 71, the gas gauge didn't work and I couldn't find a replacement (back in 98). I could take a corner and hear how much gas was in the tank, and I never ran out of gas. One of many advantages of leaving it in the cab.

[Kook87]

If you are in a serious accident in one of these trucks there probably isn't much in the way of safety constraints that is going to save your life. There are videos on the net that show the difference in how different older vehicles respond to collisions versus new vehicles.

[old Chevy guy]

Originally Posted by sstone69

When I had my 71, the gas gauge didn't work and I couldn't find a replacement (back in 98). I could take a corner and hear how much gas was in the tank, and I never ran out of gas. One of many advantages of leaving it in the cab.

When I drove my two 61's ,1/2 ton long fleet Chevy apache and a GMC 3500 flatbed the gas gauge was broken on both. I kept a wooden stick and used it as a dip stick to tell how much was in the tank. Never ran either one of those out of gas either. Had those 2 trucks plus a 66 C 60, a 67 GMC Camper cruiser and a 71 custom c 20 and was never scared about the tank in the cab. Never smelt any fumes either.

[Lattimer]

Originally Posted by PanelDeland

The best way to avoid the issue, build a 'Burb, Blazer or Panel. They all had tanks behind the rear axle from the factory.

Wish I could find a decent Panel or 'Burb. Very few to be found and most are way to far rusted.

[Jimjific]

As a firefighter (We cover a part of the NYS Thruway) I've been to my share of car fires. Not one has ever been caused by an accident and not one has ever exploded. We had one where the fuel line under a BMW broke and kept reigniting. I finally went underneath and bent the line to stop it from leaking and lighting. Hollywood depicts car fires falsely like they do many things.

Jim

[litew8]

Pinto, lets get with the times. Ever hear of the Jeep gas tank recall.
I have 0 concern with the tank mounted behind me in my 71', and I

"The concern is that some older model Jeeps can easily burst into flames when they are hit from behind. Federal investigators determined the Jeeps' rear-mounted gas tanks can be easily punctured and investigators linked the gas tanks to dozens of deaths nationwide. That prompted government regulators to ask Chrysler to take action. Chrysler denies any safety problem at all, but it agreed to install a trailer hitch to the Jeeps to help reduce the chances of injury and death during a rear-impact crash."



Either way, you should have a fire extinguisher with you at all times.