CORN GAS RESULTS (pics!)

[riz]

I have an engine from Beck Racing out of Arizona and I have to use the highest grade of gas due to the high compression and other goodies. Beck has only had one engine returned in all the years they've been in business.......... and that was due to the owner NOT using the high octane gas....... it caused fuel deposits or something like that.

RIZ

[BigBlocksRule]

If an engine is built to run higher octane (higher compression, etc.), it will make more power with higher octane fuel. If you run premium in your old 8:1 454 engine, the only reason it will get better economy is because your wallet is a bit lighter. You may actually lose mileage because the 454 was built to run on poorer quality fuel.
OCTANE is a fuel's resistance to detonation. Higher octane fuels burn more SLOWLY, not faster.
You're not burning valves or ruining guides due to ethanol - it actually burns cooler than gasoline. And cleaner by a good bit. I cleaned a set of pistons from an E-85 engine recently - a couple of squirts of WD-40 and the carbon came right off of the piston tops. Nothing like as tough to clean as the carbon build-up from gasoline.
Bio fuels are here to stay. I ain't saying corn is the best solution, particularly when we can buy raw sugar from South America for less than the corn it takes to make the same amount of sugar. And for everyone who thinks that the last stage of a corn kernel's life is the ethanol plant, do a little bit of research. That stuff is still fed to livestock and there's plenty of nutrition in it for 'em. Once technology provides us with a better solution than corn, it'll be in everything and a lot more than 15%.

[BlackChevy]

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

Once technology provides us with a better solution than corn, it'll be in everything and a lot more than 15%.

Good news
There is already an alternative to corn. Its called Switchgrass. It requires about as much care as you'd give to a clump of crab grass. I imagine the reason it hasnt become a big deal yet is because corn growers really like the attention. But you'd probably still need to change your engine a bit to run on any kind of ethanol. If you ever ran alcohol through your go-kart you probably know why.
Check it out, Switchgrass ethanol!

[Zebb]

Low compression = Low octane fuel
High compression = high octane fuel

My wife would put 87 octane in her Cadillac to save money then complain to me that it was getting poor mileage. It took me a few attemps to convince her that her Cadillac was designed for 91 octane because it was a high compression motor.

[SSC's76]

glanced at the pics looks like more of a lean detonation issue. were you running just e85 straight or gas with 10%? the 10% alone will not have any ill effects unless the engine is lean out of the box or your timing is way off. if you were burning straight e85 then yeah you need to adjust for that at least 10% richer for proper combustion. I ran e 85 for a while but it wasent worth it cost wise and there were only 2 gas stations in drivable distance that sold it at the time.

[dznucks]

Higher octane fuels have a higher ignition tempurature, they dont nessecarily burn slower. As you increase the pressure on any gas, its temperature increases. Think of a pressure cooker.

Take a low octance fuel and put it in a high compression motor. The reason it will knock is due to the in cylinder pressure raising the cylinder tempurature up to and past the ignition temp of the low octane fuel. This happens milli-seconds before the spark plug ignites the fuel. Now you have ignited the air/fuel mixture in two places within the cylinder. The collision of the two flame (pressure) fronts creates the knock that you hear.

Now take a high octane fuel and put it in a low compression motor. The cylinder will never reach the appropriate pressures or temps to completely combust all the fuel. So, in essence you are wasting your fuel.

The OP is correct that you will run richer, but that is due incomplete combustion. Your fuel economy will decline since you are not completely burning the fuel and your performance will suffer as well.

[Stew_Magoo]

Originally Posted by Mrknowitall

She ran hot, slowly burnt her valve stem oil seals..

Run the 91+ people!!!

I'd take a look at them coolant passages, pretty sludged up. If the inside of your radiator looks like that, I think that would be an area of concern you should address ASAP. A clogged radiator will cause a poor cooling condition loooooong before running 87 octane fuel regardless if its E10 (10%/90% ethonal/gasoline mix) for pure gasoline.

[Mrknowitall]

Originally Posted by Stew_Magoo

I'd take a look at them coolant passages, pretty sludged up. If the inside of your radiator looks like that, I think that would be an area of concern you should address ASAP. A clogged radiator will cause a poor cooling condition loooooong before running 87 octane fuel regardless if its E10 (10%/90% ethonal/gasoline mix) for pure gasoline.

Coolant passages! Yes that was an issue as well!!
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[BigBlocksRule]

Unless you have a lot of experience building carbs for alky, it's best to buy one from someone who does. It's a damn sight more than a few jet changes and drilling a few passages out.
I want to build a big turbo E-85 engine. I know that I can run 93 with 10.75:1 compression at and near my altitude in a 540 with aluminum heads. I also know that I can run a good bit of boost with E-85 in this same engine. Just trying to figure out the induction/injection system that'll let me run whichever fuel and boost I want.

[chevy4life02814]

personally, i hope corn fuel is never the standard. it's not as efficient and not cheaper to produce Corn only looks cheap because of government subsidies. you think you're paying high taxes now, if ethanol fuel becomes the major fuel, watch out! Just one mans opinion...
__________________
2011 camaro
1987 r10 p/u
1989 scottsdale stepside
__________________

[superwade57]

Originally Posted by chevy4life02814

personally, i hope corn fuel is never the standard. it's not as efficient and not cheaper to produce Corn only looks cheap because of government subsidies. you think you're paying high taxes now, if ethanol fuel becomes the major fuel, watch out! Just one mans opinion...
__________________
2011 camaro
1987 r10 p/u
1989 scottsdale stepside
__________________

ethanol was a good cheap way to when e85 was introduce corn was approx $2per bushel, now how ever corn in our area anyways is over $7 a bushel same reason why bio diesel plants tanked- soybeans became to expensive to quickly and it made it more expensive than petrolium based diesel fuel

[csb#356]

The octane rating is the resistance to ignition. The higher the "octane", the harder it is to get that fuel to burn completely. Thats why higher compression engines use higher octane rating fuels. On the compression stroke the heat created from compressing air will burn lower octane fuel before you want it to trying to force the piston back down before it completes the stroke. Causing the "pinging" everyone is talking about. If you try and burn higher octane fuels in your engine when you have 8:1 compression, you're throwing away money and that is why you all have trouble burning this E85, but I have no idea what the octane rating of that fuel is. You can't make enough heat to burn that fuel. This is why diesel engines work on the principles that they do. Create a bunch of heat by compressing the air so much that atomized fuel will ignite without spark. (why the fuel can't be drawn in with an air mixture like a gasoline engine)

[gmclowsierra]

E85 is alcohol based. Means more power lower economy. Thats why its 100+ octane. Thats why it was running so hot. It'll also break down rubber components alot faster. Apperently you had other issues other than running e85 fuel.
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[lilpoindexter]

You can thank the corn lobby for shoving this crap and high fructose corn syrup down our throats.

[BigBlocksRule]

Ethanol doesn't burn hot, it burns a good bit cooler than gasoline in spite of the higher octane rating. Again, octane has little to do with burn temps but everything to do with detonation resistance.

[superwade57]

i agree as i stated i just simplified as a general term super, refering to 100%gasoline, i stated that.
and all ethonal gas no matter what the ratio will ruin small gas engines especially 2 stroke.

[Number21]

Originally Posted by superwade57

and all ethonal gas no matter what the ratio will ruin small gas engines especially 2 stroke.

Cough*cough*bull*****cough*cough

[f.monroe]

This fuel is pretty hard on engines both small and large. It's just not as efficient as pure gasoline. I Hope texas will go back to straight gasoline at some point. I would pay more for straight gas if given the opportunity to choose. The problem here is that the choice has been taken away.

I work on dispensing equipment at c-stores and service stations for a living and I can tell you that it causes issues with the equipment . Between water, phase separation, and the corrosion I see inside the dispensers, I can only imagine what the long term effects will be on the vehicles we are using it in.
Frank
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[richards72chevy]

They have been talking about switch grass for years.I remember a long time ago they were talking about a plant called kudzo or kudzu.It was imported over here from asia in the 30's and now its a problem in the south.It grows about three inches a day.

[BlackChevy]

Originally Posted by richards72chevy

They have been talking about switch grass for years.I remember a long time ago they were talking about a plant called kudzo or kudzu.It was imported over here from asia in the 30's and now its a problem in the south.It grows about three inches a day.

Kudzu is a vine that can grow up to 3 feet in a day. Seems someone thought it was a good idea to bring it over here to prevent soil erosion, provide high protein food for cattle, and for decoration and shade. I have grown it myself in a pot indoors just to measure how fast it grows. Not sure how that relates to switch grass... are they trying to use it for ethanol now? It would be easy to cultivate for sure.

[yousesteers]

E85 does not have as many BTU's of energy as E10 or straight gas that is why it does not burn as efficently Octane has nothing todo with your MPG. we have run ethonal in everything for over 20 years never lost an engine to it. Run it in everything from new cars to 70 year old tractor to chainsaws. you just have to be able to set your carbs up and a carb running on alchol will need adjustments based on temp and humidity whether it is a stock motor or a high performance motor. E85 will loosen rust and other debris in a tank and is hard on old rubber hoses but once and that stuff just takes time to work out and clean up the system.

[richards72chevy]

Not that i know of.I actually seen it on the news awhile back.A man was making it in his garage for his ride on lawn mowers.Said it was easy to make and there was an abundant supply of kudzu.He couldnt use it in a vehicle driven on the road!I guess it is law that you cant make your own fuel for street use?They did say it was one of the fastest growing plants.

[JointTech]

jet fuel is kerosene/diesel ...ish.
Small prop planes you see at the local strip run General Aviation fuel which I think is 110 octane. I also suspect its real gas. My dad used to fill up his truck when filling the plane.

We always thought it ran faster... probably just mental. My Scion runs like **** on 87 and in the summer with the AC cranked its unbearable so I run premium. Its only $2 more per tank.

[JointTech]

the unfortunate thing about kudzu is cows dont eat it.... duhhhhhh somebody probably should have thought of that before unleashing it.

[BigBlocksRule]

The flame fronts colliding is one part of the noise of knock.
When the spark plug ignites the air/fuel mixture, it BURNS across the top of the piston and throughout the chamber.
When fuel is ignited by pre-ignition/detonation, it EXPLODES rather than burning. This is what hammers bearings.
For those of us old enough to remember real firecrackers, look at like the difference between the way the gunpowder burned when you broke one open and poured it onto something versus the explosion when it was left as-is. One is a burn, the other is an explosion. It's not the best analogy since the as-is firecracker contains the burn which causes the explosion, but the way they burn is very similar to the difference between detonation and normal spark ignition.