Air Bag basics? Where to read up?

[FirstGen]

Thanks again. Great info. Is anyone making a good 3 way valve? Are those uncommon? Yeah I wasn't planning on buying any of the cups mounting stuff. My uncle is a metal fabricator and I have done alot of work with him. While I don't own many of the tools needed, he does and lives 3 hours away...

[bagged91]

Steve,
You bring up a couple of good points that I don't think can be stressed enough.

1)Alignment is key. You need to have your alignment right on. It not only affects your tire wear but also how you corner,stop ect...

2)Installation. IF you do not properly install your bags AND all the related components, you will be in for a rude awakening when you are doing 65-75 MPH and you blow a bag. Been there, done that and it's not fun... If you have something rubbing on the bellows on the bag, it will rupture it. If you route your airline too close to heat(exhaust or...) it will burst, causing you to loose tank pressure and also bag pressure. The valves need tank pressure to work(it's a + - pressure thing).

I did spend a lot for quality components on my air setup and it is installed properly. That is why I don't have any problems with it. I also have shaved doors. I made sure that I had a hidden manual entry cable when I did the soloniods.

[bagged91]

The three way valve isn't used as much. I remember seeing them in the Grainger & McMaster Carr catalogs. A guy in my old club had them on his S10. They were neat. Look on flea bay for some. They were expensive new...

[GreyHoundSteve]

Bagged91, If my truck was just for fun i would bag it. Nothing looks as good as a truck on bags because you can adjust your stance by a flick of a switch.another cool feature is the ability to haul anything and maintain a level smooth ride. Also, like you mentioned ... a bagged truck can ride like a cadilac or more like a lincon (which actually uses bags on some models).
The down side is that i think even $1200 is optamistic. I paper pieced together the system i would want and it was closer to $3,000. Granted i was adding in those art $1200 control arms but if your talking about doing things the absolute right way then proper camber is a must in my book. IMO nothing looks worse than a cheap bag setup because when aired out these trucks look like the axels broke and the truck fell on the bent wheels. Living in Dallas you get a chance to see well done bagged trucks and poorly done bagged trucks and i would say unless your going to do it right ..... dont do it at all. Listening to firstgens posts leads me to believe that coilovers are a better option for him. They weigh less and perform better (on the track that is). Also if you like to slam your trucks into deep corners at high speeds i would never feel 100% safe doing it on bags.

The reason i was (and still kinda am) considering airbags is because my truck will be fuctional and i would like to get another bike and be able to haul it in the bed and bags would be great for that. The main reason for me wanting bags though is because imo a trucks stance is the most important statement it can make and the wrong static drop can cost you in the long run because of trial and error parts purchasing. Because im running 20's up front and 22's in the back im in a little bit of unchartered water and i dont want to guess wrong with the drop amount i need so bags would be great for that however i still have my reservations about them from talking to guys who run them or have run them in the past. The more you find out about them the more you realize that its not a blow and go system. On a static drop truck its get in and go but with bags you have to keep your eyes on your gauges and always be aware that your on air and you need to make sure everything is working properly everytime you leave your garage or you might be risking your life and the lives of your passengers. When i hear guys like FCG who know trucks and have VERY NICE air bag set ups say that they are scared to venture to far from home it makes me think that bags arent for everyone and probably not for me. IMO though .... nothing looks as good or probably rides as smooth, unfortunately for me im not a Sunday driver and my vehicles take ALOT of abuse.

[FirstGen]

Is there any reason specifically NOT to run a truck on bags with only schrader valves? No on board air system? Seems like that pretty much would kill all of your worries Steve. It would also allow me to give them a try and see if I really like the ride of bags and if I want to invest the additional cash to finish the system. If I don't like it I would rather be selling 2XX dollars worth of stuff and not 2XXX dollars of stuff.

Also, if lines are such a problem with bursting and the such, why not put a manual valve immediatly after the bag and before anything else. This way if you are taking a trip or you are worried about the long haul you could easily reach under and close the manual valve and you are set.

Unless airbags are really easy to blow, I just don't see how you can blow one without knowing you have a problem before.

I guess I am an optimist. Everyone before told me that putting a LS1 and a six speed in my truck was going to be a huge nightmare and un-reliable. Honestly it has been everything else that has broken and had problems definatly not the LS1/T56 setup. I don't do anything half a$$. But I DO everything on a tight budget. I think there is a big difference. I have never believed that if you spend X amount of cash on something that makes it quality. It's a combination of everything you put into a project: planning, time, and of course funding.

[smokekiki]

here is a three way valve.You need one per corner for fbss...http://phatcustoms.com/150_psi_gold_valve.html

[FirstGen]

pretty expensive I could buy 3 SMC regular valves for that cost.

[SCOTI]

FirstGen, are you wanting to bag all 4-corners? Just the back? Or ???

GHS has made some valid points but personally I've never worried about my bags when I get in the truck. The only time I look @ my air gauge is if the truck looks like it's leaning or I'm getting ready to tow something on my trailer. Other than that, the guage & controls stay wrapped up in a towel under my seat. Usually if the truck is leaning..... it's the concrete it's sitting on!

Your welcome to swing by & check out my set-up to see how I did things since I started w/schrader valves & gradually stepped my system up as the need arose. My 68 is just a 2-wheel system but it should help you put everything into perspective. I would offer a ride & drive but w/a wasted clutch, it doesn't like going into gear.

And just for the record.... I kept those 2yr old schrader valves mounted even after I installed my tank/comp so I always have a simple repair kit for my airlines.

[smokekiki]

Originally Posted by FirstGen

pretty expensive I could buy 3 SMC regular valves for that cost.

You asked about 3 way valves,I was just showing them to You. Not only more expensive,but also a more complicated unit.I have been told they are not as reliable as a regular valve.

[bagged91]

Mike, thanks for finding that 3 way valve... They are expensive little buggers aren't they!!

FirstGen, you can try it with the shrader valves and see how you like them. The air spring when installed correctly is as reliable as a ROLEX. But when they go, you usually have no warning, just POPpssssssttt....rub...ssscccrraaaaaaaaaaaape... Then you hear @#^!*%~@#$#!!!!! The ball valves are a good, cheap manual valve but can be a little tricky if you use them while driving! DOT line is fine, I have just seen too many times lines blown because they laid on a pipe or the driveshaft or.... If they are secured to the chassis with cable clamps and sleaved/grommetted at sharp edges, you will have no problems.

GHS, ya know what you should do? Leave your suspension alone, buy a set of airlift air helper bags and use them for when you want to tow or haul your bike. This way you won't have to worry about any of the issues you stated above.

I will keep my cheap airride setup, negative camber and all and see ya at the races. Hell, I may even make it to Texas so I can see what an airbagged truck is supposed to look like...

[FirstGen]

Thanks guys.

SCOTI - I might have to give you a shout sometime... BTW, since you clutch is blown, maybe you should just get this extra 6 speed I bought yesterday

Smoke - Thanks for the link.

Bagged - Thanks for your patient responces. I am pretty sure I'm gonna bag it. You said pretty much all the bags are the same right? So Firestone 2600# bags for front and rear are fine but what heights and diameters? Is there a part number you can reccomend?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by FirstGen

You said pretty much all the bags are the same right? So Firestone 2600# bags for front and rear are fine but what heights and diameters? Is there a part number you can reccomend?

You can use the 2600's all around but they make a slightly smaller rear bag that would work just as well & might ride better. I used the 2600's on the back of mine & AirRide said it was overkill. They stated the smaller ones would work & could handle pulling a trailer w/o probs.

I had some 2600's & figured they would work as good or better & since they are rated for more weight, I'm more comfortable when I pull the loaded trailer around.

[Slammed67]

FYI... I have those 3-way valves on my truck, only the ones I have are silver colored. I believe the gold colored ones are for higher pressures. My truck isn't driven daily, but I have had no problems with those valves and they are plenty fast. The rear of my truck rises to full height in about 1 second when the tanks are at full pressure. I think I paid about $90 ea for them. As long as you keep the air clean and dry, they shouldn't give you any problems. If nothing else, they are a little easier to plumb. One line to the bag, one line to the air source.

[bagged91]

FirstGen, the dimensions on the 2600# bags are for the most part the same. You will just need to ask for a 3/8" Single Port 2600# Firestone bag. I think the bag that Scoti said ART was referring to is a 2500# bag. They will work also but I personally don't like the ride quality from them & you don't get quite as much lift either. Me & mostly every other shop use 2600# bags for their "projects". A friend of mine, Adam just had one of our friends bag his 4dr Honda Accord with 2600# Firestone bags. I attached some pics of it below... Not bad for NJ...

Slammed67 - my buddy hasn't had any trouble with his either except when he overtightened a fitting and cracked the housing. Other than that, they seem to work good...


rear setup

side shot

front setup

[FirstGen]

Scoti - you have any pictures of your truck aired all the way out and aired all the way up? I'd like to see that...

I wish I knew someone to go for a ride in a bag setup around here. I'd just like to see how the ride changes when the actual bag height is higher or lower compared to manufactures reccomdations for the bag. Like the bag specs might say designed ride height is, 5-7 inches but maybe you like the stance at 4"inches. Seems to me that is would just be a softer ride where as crusin at 8 inches would be very stiff. I'm assuming the vehicle weight is not changing here (passengers, trailor, etc).


Ohh and, that's the best looking Accord I've ever seen!!

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by FirstGen

Scoti - you have any pictures of your truck aired all the way out and aired all the way up? I'd like to see that...

I wish I knew someone to go for a ride in a bag setup around here. I'd just like to see how the ride changes when the actual bag height is higher or lower compared to manufactures reccomdations for the bag. Like the bag specs might say designed ride height is, 5-7 inches but maybe you like the stance at 4"inches. Seems to me that is would just be a softer ride where as crusin at 8 inches would be very stiff. I'm assuming the vehicle weight is not changing here (passengers, trailor, etc).


Ohh and, that's the best looking Accord I've ever seen!!

They recommend higher pressures than what I run for my rear bags. I run mine @ approx 30psi+. Anything below that & the ride is not "softer", it gets bouncy as heck. I figured all my measurements @ the middle of the manufacturers recommendations as far as height. That gives you room to go up or down.

Taylor, are you wanting 4-wheel air-ride or just the back to allow adjustment for track conditions?

Originally Posted by bagged91

FirstGen, the dimensions on the 2600# bags are for the most part the same. You will just need to ask for a 3/8" Single Port 2600# Firestone bag. I think the bag that Scoti said ART was referring to is a 2500# bag.

I have F6873 on the rear of my truck which according to AirRides catalog is listed @ 3150#. They recommend F6957 for the rears of 67-72 Chevy trucks which is listed as 2140# bags. Like I said, I wanted some margain for error so I used 1 step over what they suggested.