5 speed conversion with pics

[chevybill]

Have you engaged your clutch yet and changed gears with the engine running? Do you have the clutch fully operational yet?

I was able to use my original driveshaft. Engine is in V-8 position, I was able to use my original yoke as well no cutting what so ever.

[watahyahknow]

you might want to try to find a smaller diameter clutchmaster from somewhere else so you need more travel to shift the same amount of hydraulic fluid , that should solve the exessive force needed to push the pedal down too

[jodydewey]

Guys, sorry it took me so long to reply to some of these - I have been doing extensive rework on my radiator core support. Now that it is done I will be putting the engine and transmission into the truck for final measurements. So far I know the NV3500 is 7 inches longer than a TH350 from the mount so I am estimating that the crossmember will have to come back that far. Thanks for the info about the height using an automatic crossmember. I think I will make my own crossmember so I can set the output degrees to zero like it should be. I haven't even looked at the driveshaft yet so I don't know what kind of work I will have to do there.

As far as I was told, the NV3500 was in full size pickups and S10s with a 4.3L from 1992 to 1998. The NV4500 is a 4WD transmission. Here is a link if you want more info on it. http://www.nv4500.com/

[mdlackey]

I'm having my own x-member fabricated, as well. If you guys know of a way to 0 the angle of the intermediate shaft to the carrier bearing, I'm all ears ... I'll take some pics, tomorrow, after I have my fab-ed one in place. Having to have my draveshaft cut another 1", as it sits way too far back in the carrier bearing mounting position. So roughly 7" would've been the total length removed from the original driveshaft.

For S&'G's, last week, I placed my stock original x-member in the framerails, just to see how the tranny would sit ... seemed way too low.
I'm really having to think about moving the master cylinder further up the firewall, so that more travel with greater leverege is seen.

On a side note, I cut my tranny "hump" to accomadate the new position of the shifter. Outside of the very top of the shifter housing ... the part I cut to clear ... there aren't any other "clearance" problems. Having a patch plate welded over the old hole, tomorrow.

New pics from anyone else?

Dave

[mdlackey]

Well, I'm looking for feedback/direction ...

Below are pics of my drive angle ... YES, the intermediate shaft is too short by about 3/8" minimum ... the carrier bearing mount is at the very front of the mounting holes of the frame support. Also, you can see that the shaft is at an upward angle from that bearing mount. Looking at the angle of the front U-joint, right behind the tranny output shaft "mount", the wngle isn't too bad ... pretty straight .. might be able to drop it down a little more.

My question is ... would you rather have a front u-joint angle or one held by the rubber of the carrier bearing? Or is a redesign all together?

For those who were looking, you can see the tranny hump and shifter coming through it ...

Anyone thouhts, feedback, or updates on your own projects would be appreciated ... there are enough of us out here!!!

Dave

[mdlackey]

... and the gear shifter pic ...

Did I mention before that my truck is kind of a "beater"? Working on the "mechanics" before the "asthetics" ...

Dave

[mdlackey]

Well, I had to have a new length of "pipe" made for my prop shaft, since I mis-measured the 2nd cut. The initial cut of my original prop shaft (roughly 6") was about right ... should've been about 5 1/2" total.

HOWEVER, my NV3500/MG5 tranny came out of a '94 GMC 1500 ... the "front"/prop shaft u-joint, right behind the tranny needed to measure 3 5/8" x 3 5/8". My 68's u-joint was 3 5/8" x 3 3/4". Seemed to be a difference between the '94 Chevy and the '94 GMC, but could've been a mis-quote of part number and part ...

3 5/8" x 3 5/8" u-joint: PDQ part # 2-0053 (Pep Boys)
U-joint strap kit: NAPA part # 260-4178

Now, I have to try and get my drive angles within spec. Believe that I may have to use a spacer to raise the carrier bearing, rarther than lower the rear of the tranny ... starts to put a real angle on the prop shaft and believe that it will start to stress the engine mounts, too.

Anyone know if a return spring ... or anything for that matter ... was used on the VN3500/MG5 trannys to keep the throwout bearing off of the pressure plate spines?

Pics to follow ...

Thanks,
Dave

[mdlackey]

Update ... Drilled and bolted the x-member into place and tigtened the u-joint straps on the prop shafts u-joints. Was able to drive the truck around the block today. Outside of the EXTREMELY short clutch throw that I mentioned in a posting earlier, it drove well.

Outstanding concerns ...

1. EXTREMELY short clutch throw
2. Drive line angles

Anyone have thoughts?

Dave

[454_72_4X4]

Originally Posted by mdlackey

Update ... Drilled and bolted the x-member into place and tigtened the u-joint straps on the prop shafts u-joints. Was able to drive the truck around the block today. Outside of the EXTREMELY short clutch throw that I mentioned in a posting earlier, it drove well.

Outstanding concerns ...

1. EXTREMELY short clutch throw
2. Drive line angles

Anyone have thoughts?

Dave

The extremely short clutch throw is probabl due to the master cylinder rod pivot point being too far from the clutch pedal point.
I'm going to be converting to hydro clutch, (nv4500 soon), and the best way I've come up with to get the correct length for the pivot point is to measure the stock clutch pedal out of say, a 94 Chevy with a manual trans and hydro clutch.
I haven't gotten around to finding one to measure yet though.

The drive line angles...I didn't read all the posts, (yet), but I did see somebody mentioned 0 degrees. I don't think that would be correct.
The crankshaft centerline isn't "level" when an engine is installed. The carburetor pad should be level, or close to it.
The important thing on driveline angles is that the transmission output shaft angle matches the rearend pinion angle. Or as close as possible.

[mdlackey]

454, yeah I figured that the further up the clutch pedal arm I go, the easier the throw will become. Just hope I don't run out of room, if I plan on installing a brake booster later. I may have to relocate back over to the passenger side of the brake master cylinder. Wanted to stay away from this since that would put the clutch master cylinder right over ... or close proximity to ... my number 7 cylinder's header tube.

Anyone know if the NV3500/4500's had a clutch return spring to keep the throwout bearing off of the pressure plate splines? Thinking I may have to mock one up.

Thanks,
Dave

[skchevota]

The NV 4500 I put in mine did not have a return spring. I am running the master on the driver side with a brake booster with know trouble. I did have the same problem of short throw and I moved the rod closer to thepivit. I then had to add a plate to my peddal are because the rod was to short on the master I used and I wanted my brake and clutch to be at the same height. I have been running this set upfor over a year and realy like it. My throw is a little less than a stock hydro system but not much, since I am lazy and dont like to have to pump my leg up and down every time I shift, I like it.

[454_72_4X4]

Originally Posted by mdlackey

454, yeah I figured that the further up the clutch pedal arm I go, the easier the throw will become. Just hope I don't run out of room, if I plan on installing a brake booster later. I may have to relocate back over to the passenger side of the brake master cylinder. Wanted to stay away from this since that would put the clutch master cylinder right over ... or close proximity to ... my number 7 cylinder's header tube.

Anyone know if the NV3500/4500's had a clutch return spring to keep the throwout bearing off of the pressure plate splines? Thinking I may have to mock one up.

Thanks,
Dave

I don't think hydro clutch's have a spring return. I think the throwout bearing rides on the pressure plate fingers all the time.
Not the best idea IMO , but I don't know any way around it yet.

[454_72_4X4]

mdlackey, your transmission has a seperate bellhousing, correct?
The reason I ask is from what I can see in your pics you have a NV4500 trans.
I think we have 2 different kinds of transmission conversions going on in this thread.

jodydewey has a NV3500, (integral [spelling?] bellhousing)
mdlackey has a NV4500, (seperate bolt on bellhousing)

These are completely different transmissions so the crossmember and driveshaft specs will be different between the two, but the hydro clutch setups are almost identical.


NV4500; (notice the shift tower and crossmember mount) This is a 4x4 version but the only difference is the ouput shaft and output housing.


NV3500; (Had this one in my S-10, 4 sale for parts!LOL)


Bolt on shifter towers for the NV3500 above;


Newer style NV3500; (This one belongs to a buddy of mine)






I've also got a few pics of different hydro clutch setups, (in 67-72 trucks), I'm working on uploading them so I can post 'em here.

Stay tuned!

[454_72_4X4]

jodydewey, if you need a little extra room for your brake booster you could gain a little by setting your clutch master cylinder against the firewall. You'll have to enlarge the hole where the rod goes through.
Make it big enough the rear portion of the master cylinder will go through the firewall.
Gain you about 3/8 of an inch?

[skchevota]

I just rememberd the return spring is built into the slave cylinder. when you buy then new they have a strap to hold them in the in position.

[mdlackey]

Yup, I must have an NV4500 ... nice to know, seeing that no one had broken down the differences in them from what I'd read.

skchevota, can you take a pic or two of your master cylinder placement and where it attaches to the clutch pedal? Would be EXTREMELY helpful ... also, do you have a pic of your driveline? Just interested in seeing how yours sits ...

454, great info !!! ... thank you ...

Thanks,
Dave

[454_72_4X4]

Here's some pics of a hydro clutch setup.
I don't know who's it is but it was posted on the board somewhen...

[454_72_4X4]

Another thought just came to mind. I'm going to measure the pivot points on my S-10 clutch pedal. It isn't a full size but I'm guessing the clutch master cylinder has the same amount of travel.
I'll post those measurements asap.

[454_72_4X4]

The distance between the pivot points on my S-10 clutch pedal measures really close to
2-1/8 inches. (pedal hinge point to the clutch master cylinder rod attachment point)

As best as I could get up in there to read the tape...

[jodydewey]

Originally Posted by 454_72_4X4

The extremely short clutch throw is probabl due to the master cylinder rod pivot point being too far from the clutch pedal point.
I'm going to be converting to hydro clutch, (nv4500 soon), and the best way I've come up with to get the correct length for the pivot point is to measure the stock clutch pedal out of say, a 94 Chevy with a manual trans and hydro clutch.
I haven't gotten around to finding one to measure yet though.

The drive line angles...I didn't read all the posts, (yet), but I did see somebody mentioned 0 degrees. I don't think that would be correct.
The crankshaft centerline isn't "level" when an engine is installed. The carburetor pad should be level, or close to it.
The important thing on driveline angles is that the transmission output shaft angle matches the rearend pinion angle. Or as close as possible.

The reason I said that the angle should be zero degrees coming out of the transmission so you can minimize vibration. If you cannot achieve zero degrees then that is OK too. You will not have problems unless the angles are extreme. Can you measure the distance from the front of the cab to the front of your shifter? I would like to make the hole in my transmission hump but you really only get one chance to make it in the right spot. Since yours looks great I want to copy it.


Jody

[jodydewey]

Originally Posted by 454_72_4X4

mdlackey, your transmission has a seperate bellhousing, correct?
The reason I ask is from what I can see in your pics you have a NV4500 trans.
I think we have 2 different kinds of transmission conversions going on in this thread.

jodydewey has a NV3500, (integral [spelling?] bellhousing)
mdlackey has a NV4500, (seperate bolt on bellhousing)

These are completely different transmissions so the crossmember and driveshaft specs will be different between the two, but the hydro clutch setups are almost identical.


NV4500; (notice the shift tower and crossmember mount) This is a 4x4 version but the only difference is the ouput shaft and output housing.


NV3500; (Had this one in my S-10, 4 sale for parts!LOL)


Bolt on shifter towers for the NV3500 above;


Newer style NV3500; (This one belongs to a buddy of mine)






I've also got a few pics of different hydro clutch setups, (in 67-72 trucks), I'm working on uploading them so I can post 'em here.

Stay tuned!

I agree with the NV3500 NV4500 stuff. When I saw the ring around the driveshaft yoke area on the pictures that spelled NV4500. When I saw the shifter location that looked nothing like mine and I noticed that the bellhousing was not integrated into the housing. That also spells NV4500. You are a lucky man though - the NV4500 is a tough tranny! Maybe that explains why you are having trouble getting it to fit - its HUGE.


I know I haven't posted any new pics lately, I didnt want to install the engine and transmission with me doing all this grinding and welding of rust panels. The weather hasn't been the best for me to work either. I have a plan now and if I can get my truck pushed into the backyard I can work on it under my awning.


Jody

[jodydewey]

The pictures above with the remote master cylinder - does anyone know what kind of vehicle that came out of? I don't think I am going to have problems when I switch to power brakes but if I do THAT remote master cylinder is the answer! The only thing that worries me about clearance is when I add power brakes. The master cylinder that I measured had a spacer bracket that measured 7 5/8 inches from the firewall. That was well beyond the clutch master cylinder of my truck.

I think I am going to redo the mounting of my clutch master cylinder. I am going to grind the welds so I can mount it flush. Maybe - maybe not. I finally got my truck moved to the backyard where I can finish the rust repair and get the engine and transmission installed. I will be building the transmission crossmember also. I will post pics of the crossmember with measurements so you can all copy it. When I get the engine and transmission mounted I will also post measurements of the locations for the holes in the hump and frame for the crossmember.

[chevybill]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GM PART # 12570277
CATEGORY: Hydraulic Clutch Main Cylinder/Rod
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $202.70
OUR PRICE: $120.16


This is the part I am trying to adapt for use with my particular NV3500 which came from a 99 s-10 4.3 with the internal release bearing and slave cylinder. This part 12570277 is from a late model f body.

[mdlackey]

Hey guys ... got my master cylinder mounted and have a much more do-able clutch throw. Been able to drive the thing. Had a rudamentary exhaust system put on so I don't tick off the neighbors. Indicate around 2100 roms when around 60-ish MPH.

My only concern, now, is if the throwout fully disengages, when in gears. Would hate to burn one of those up too quickly. I'm using the stock GMC master-slave cylinder setup from the donor truck.

Will take pics during the week and post them.

Anyone else have an update?

Dave

[watahyahknow]

i believe that if the mastercyclinder comes fully back the trowout will release too , with the hydraulic system its selfadjusting