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#26 | |
Fabricate till you "puke"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ill
Posts: 9,403
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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#27 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Alittle more info. The truck I mentioned above was all steel, with wood bed and had air. I talked to him again and he said always use the Z/28 subrame,not the standard camaro, the springs and sway bar are different. Also for big block applications use a big block Trans Am (6.6 litre) subframe instead of the Z/28.
I asked what the drop was from stock and it ends up around a 7-7 1/2 inch drop while still maintaining stock Camaro geometry and spring rates. No drop spindles or springs. For even better handling add urethane bushings and the T/A big block sway bar for a small block application. It has been brought up about brakes here. My friends answer was this, the trucks have a slightly larger brake system than the the Camaro, but not for the purpose of controlling an unloaded trucks weight. The manufacturer puts larger brakes on a truck due their intended purpose, hauling loads and pulling trailers and not for the reasons stated previously. But you can still upgrade to larger rotors and calipers on a camaro conversion for about the same as a stock disc brake upgrade kit for the truck. This whole conversion averages around $500.00 whick includes rebuilding the suspension and brake system. Compare that to the cost of a stock rebuild, disc brake conversion kit, drop kit, power steering kit, etc, and there is a noticable difference not to mention after all this your truck still handles like a truck. I will definately be going this route, as to me the advantages and cost outweigh the stock route. The install is alot simpler than I had thought also. Crazy longhorn I didnt make it today but I will try to get over to his shop tomorrow and get some pics. Last edited by outlawc; 10-16-2006 at 07:42 PM. |
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#28 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Republic of California
Posts: 345
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Add some Globalwest Upper Control Arms and probably get even better handling.
![]() You are going to takes Pics and share with us? ![]()
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'67 C10 Short Stepside 5.0TPI/700R4 |
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#29 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
I am sure they will make even more of a difference. I will take pics of the process. I am surprised that there arent more people that have done this.
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#30 |
Fabricate till you "puke"
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Ill
Posts: 9,403
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
BTT......
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
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#31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mesa,Az
Posts: 3,981
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
I'm not... it's alot of work!
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www.PorterbuiltFabrication.com Phone: 480-297-2621 E-mail: sales@pbfab.com Find us on FaceBook under Porterbuilt Fabrication Specializing in Chassis and Suspension Components for your Classic Chevrolet Truck. We offer components from the following manufacturers: Porterbuilt Accuair Ridetech (Air Ride Technologies) Air Lift Wilwood Intro Unisteer ECE Gotta Show Air Lift Borgeson CPP Supporting this forum since 2003! |
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#32 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
All that wild stuff you do and a camaro subframe is a lot of work, come on now
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#33 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WIS
Posts: 1,752
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Are there any books out there on "how to" sub frame swaps ?..........Thanks...........Zoomy
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#34 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mesa,Az
Posts: 3,981
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
I think it was you that mentioned the Guldstrand Mod (changing the location of the upper control arm mounts to achieve a more desireable camber curve) in the suspension forum... this modification will greatly improve the performance aspect of a camaro's suspension geometry. It really is alot of work to do a clean installation... your friend said "2 hours" that seems pretty optimistic! ![]() You have to make all your measurements, check them again and again, remove the front-end, motor/trans, remove the stock suspension, cut the frame off (this is where your measuring twice pays off), intsall the clip, box it all in, re-hang all the front sheet metal and core support... mock it up and fabricate a new core support mount and bumper brackets (or graft in the front half of the original frame). Then re-run all the brake lines, might have to mod or move the trans crossmember, install the drivetrain, have your driveshaft lengthened or shortened, spend at least a couple hundred bucks for steering linkage, might have to buy new power steering lines, exhaust and headers... and there will be a hundred other little things that will nickle and dime you to death. True, most of it is labor... TIME. If you got the time to spend and don't mind the challenge, or the fact that you're cutting the front half of your frame off, it may be justified as an option for suspension "upgrade". If you don't have the time and are paying somebody else to do the work, $75-$100 an hour adds up in a hurry. I don't install camaro subframes for customers, because the investment isn't justified... I did one. In regards to the weight question, I believe the difference is negligable. The braking components on the camaro will be sufficient to stop your truck during normal daily driving duties... not towing or hauling heavy loads. If one doesn't think the braking power is sufficient... upgrade the brakes, and spend another $1500!!!
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www.PorterbuiltFabrication.com Phone: 480-297-2621 E-mail: sales@pbfab.com Find us on FaceBook under Porterbuilt Fabrication Specializing in Chassis and Suspension Components for your Classic Chevrolet Truck. We offer components from the following manufacturers: Porterbuilt Accuair Ridetech (Air Ride Technologies) Air Lift Wilwood Intro Unisteer ECE Gotta Show Air Lift Borgeson CPP Supporting this forum since 2003! |
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#35 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: dayton, oh
Posts: 327
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Here's a link to another member's 59 project. I don't know how that frame will compare to yours, but at least it's a start. I'm in the middle of a clip swap too on my 51. My original frame rails are more norrow then the 59 shown here, so I couldn't just lay the truck frame onto the Camaro frame.
It requires a lot of measuring as mentioned before. You need to set the Camaro clip and truck to ride height. I set the clip by running 5/8" allthread rods with washers and nuts in place of the shocks. Then make sure you set the axle centerline and get it square. Brace it, cut, fit weld. There is obviously more to it, and it is not for the faint of heart. If you want to jump into it and are feeling hesitant why not get your friend to help out? http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=213148
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My 51 project http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2285825 My 68 Camaro project http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2277404/1 |
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#36 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Republic of California
Posts: 345
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
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'67 C10 Short Stepside 5.0TPI/700R4 Last edited by CochinoFilipino; 10-18-2006 at 02:01 PM. |
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#37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mesa,Az
Posts: 3,981
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
The 2nd gen. has a better suspension design.
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www.PorterbuiltFabrication.com Phone: 480-297-2621 E-mail: sales@pbfab.com Find us on FaceBook under Porterbuilt Fabrication Specializing in Chassis and Suspension Components for your Classic Chevrolet Truck. We offer components from the following manufacturers: Porterbuilt Accuair Ridetech (Air Ride Technologies) Air Lift Wilwood Intro Unisteer ECE Gotta Show Air Lift Borgeson CPP Supporting this forum since 2003! |
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#38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
I am not familiar with the Guldstrand Mod, but I will be using a 1979 Z/28 subframe. When I said my friend said a couple of hours that was to cut the truck frame, cut the subframe to slide into the trucks framerails and weld it up, with me and two other people. He has done this so many times he has built a jig that bolts to the truck frame, all the templates for the general cuts are premade along with templates for the boxing plates and core support mounting. He told me he gets them almost dead on just using his setup and the installation requires only minor adjustments. I wasnt talking about motor out, subframe, finish welding, motor in etc, just in a sitting on wheels, thats all. I will have to do motor trans and everthing either way, subframe or the 73-87 upgrade. All this wont cost me a dime, I have a car he wants so its a swap deal.
My main reasons for doing this as stated before was to improve handling and cornering and get it lower without having to buy all the suspension, brake and lowering kits. I priced out everything between the two and the camaro subframe,for what I want, comes out ahead in cost and performance. I wont ever be towing anything and the most it will ever haul will be paint and supplies, and an occasional ice chest. Thanks so much for your expert opinions porterbuilt. I knew the weight difference is almost non existant and the braking wouldnt be a problem, since its working days are over. Thanks again for clarifying that is definately a upgrade in performane over the truck suspension. The ones I have driven handle exremely well compared to the truck, you can instantly tell its way better than the truck suspension. Money isnt really an issue, Personally I cant justify spending twice as much just to have a 4 inch difference in ride height and zero difference in performance, and since the labor is free I cant really go wrong. Thanks again porterbuilt. Your work is incredible. |
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#39 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mesa,Az
Posts: 3,981
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Outlawc-
Sounds like it will be a good mod for you. If it is going to cost you a lot less and yield a more desireable result than your other option(s) then it sounds like a no brainer! Some guys would have a heart attack at the thought of cutting the front half of their frame off! Make sure you post up some pics of your progress... (I am interested to see your buddies "jig" that he bolts up)!!!
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www.PorterbuiltFabrication.com Phone: 480-297-2621 E-mail: sales@pbfab.com Find us on FaceBook under Porterbuilt Fabrication Specializing in Chassis and Suspension Components for your Classic Chevrolet Truck. We offer components from the following manufacturers: Porterbuilt Accuair Ridetech (Air Ride Technologies) Air Lift Wilwood Intro Unisteer ECE Gotta Show Air Lift Borgeson CPP Supporting this forum since 2003! |
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#40 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Rayne, LA
Posts: 2,782
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
OK, I know that I'm bringing back the dead, but I have to know if it worked out for you. Any pics of the progress or the finished product?
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Steven "If dogs don't go to heaven, when I die I want to go wherever they went." -- Will Rogers R.I.P. Oscar R.I.P. Ratchet 1967 Pontiac GTO - Dad was the Original Owner 1970 Chevy 2wd SWB "Oscar's Truck" 1970 Chevy 2wd Blazer "Ratchet's Blazer" 2013 Chevy 2500HD Crew Cab Duramax/Allison Z71 LTZ "Brown Sugar" 2017 Chevy Suburban "BDB" 2020 Chevy Blazer Premier "Foxy" Member of Louisiana Classic Truck Club (LCTC) Shop Build |
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#41 |
WTB this ad
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lafayette Georgia
Posts: 5,074
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Hmmm, maybe it was so easy he decided to do something else.
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#42 |
Long Fleet Club
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Deer Park, TX
Posts: 5,666
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
All of that and no pics and no reply. Sounded like he just wanted to debate with people. It was getting fustrating reading the replys. Kept going in circles for a bit.
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Chris Meeks '69 Chevy Custom/10 Long Bed <-- Thread of the work I did before selling. Truck is now finished to the new owners design and running around. I was shown some pictures of the finished product. At least it survived the junk yard. FAQ Index by Krue Site Vendors Subscribe Here Forum Rules |
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#43 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Quote:
![]() No cameeks, I dont spend a whole lot of time on the computer so I really hadnt thought much about checking for replies. Porterbuilt, I was mistaken about the jig for doing this. The frame jig he has built is for doing C-4 corvette suspension similar to what you do. Here are some pics of one of my friends that did the camaro subframe in his. Sorry I dont have better pics but you get the idea. This is with all stock camaro suspension, no dropped spindles or springs. The wheels are 17x8's with 245/45/17's. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Last edited by outlawc; 08-25-2007 at 05:39 PM. |
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#44 |
Looks good at 20-ft .....
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Mtn Home, AR
Posts: 707
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
GMC looks super-mean, and that rear engine = lotsa luggage space up under the hood ....................
I like the low look, without bags. I'll be watching for your build. Photos, please. |
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#45 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
Thanks, mine will sit alittle lower in the front with engine and trans. and I will have coil overs in the back.
He used to have a cover on the bed, should have seen people faces when they would see him drive up then open the hood, only there was nothing there. ![]() |
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#46 |
Official Site Guitar Shredder
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 3,955
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
![]() ![]() Last edited by bad6772; 08-25-2007 at 08:31 PM. |
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#47 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 211
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Re: Camaro subframe ?'s
I found this while looking through some old magazines. This truck has a camaro subframe and rearend. Reading this article kind of answered my original question between the ride height differences of sliding the subframe inside the trucks frame versus the truck frame on top of the subframe. This truck has drop spindles and springs so it must have been sat on top of the subframe and sat too high.
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