Ethanol and Flex Fuels

[shifty]

Originally Posted by mrein3

This is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my post above. Figure out YOUR miles per DOLLAR. It is ALWAYS less efficient to use E85.

But, let's stop thinking about this with blinders. Think about it from the perspective of:

We can make our own here in the USA.
We can curb the need to step outside our borders for fuel.
All that money stays inside our country.

The ideal of "I don't want to pay 4% more for something that is cleaner burning and benefits our country and livelihood" is the same general ideal that has basically decimated our USA steel industry, which is practically non-existant. People would rather buy cheap steel from Asia instead.

I think ethanol may not be "the" solution right now, and chances are prices will go back down again once it gets well-rooted and better regulated. But the reality is, the system of standard gas and diesel we have now is just crippling us and I think it hurts things more than it fixes them.

[mrein3]

Originally Posted by shifty

But, let's stop thinking about this with blinders. Think about it from the perspective of:

We can make our own here in the USA.
We can curb the need to step outside our borders for fuel.
All that money stays inside our country.

The ideal of "I don't want to pay 4% more for something that is cleaner burning and benefits our country and livelihood" is the same general ideal that has basically decimated our USA steel industry, which is practically non-existant. People would rather buy cheap steel from Asia instead.

I think ethanol may not be "the" solution right now, and chances are prices will go back down again once it gets well-rooted and better regulated. But the reality is, the system of standard gas and diesel we have now is just crippling us and I think it hurts things more than it fixes them.

My thinking is far from having blinders on.
Minnesota is one of the leading producers of ethanol in this country. In fact there is getting to be a shortage of corn around here. Have you seen the price per bushel in St. Paul recently? It is more than double from this time last year.
You can't swing a dead cat in farm country without hitting a group of farmers proposing an ethanol plant.
Some areas in the state are running out of fresh water from the demand on the local supply that ethanol plants put on the system. Keep in mind this is the land of 10,000 lakes.
I've heard recently that the seed for next years crop is 20% oversold. In other words only 80% of the farmers who are planning on growing corn this spring will be able to get their hands on seed.
Cash rent is up on farm land. People from SD are driving the price up in ND thinking they will get a crop off regardless of the short growing season up there.
Folks aren't giving away feeder cattle yet but it is getting close. That is because you're better off selling your corn to the ethanol plant than feeding it to your steers. Which of course means you and I will be paying more for steaks in the near future.

My next daily driver will be a flex fuel vehicle. That way I can take advantage of what is best for my family, me, and my country. In that order.

[kbs71]

You guys should read the articles at this site. http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/ The guys a little over the top, but most of what he has in there is fact based data. Also I've tried the Acetone, 2 stroke top end lube xylene mix and consistantly got almost double my gas milage (from 7-8 MPG to a little over 14) in my 71 C-10 with a 350, 680 dominator on it. This was before they brought e90 into the Houston area. After using the e90 and the mix my mileage went down to @ 10 MPG. I've got a 97 Toyota Tercel with over 160,000 miles that I consistantly get over 28 MPG using a 4/2/4/mix of Acetone ,lube and xylene, thats using what ever at the pumps, which may or may not be e90, you just don't know what your getting.
My take on it is your swapping one evil for another. The end result needs to be OTHER alternative fuels than fossil/alcohol based. I've raced alcohol fueled cars for over 10 years and it ain't easy keeping those running. When you get them tuned in right, they run great. But just leaving a couple of gallons of straight alcohol in the fuel system of a race car even for a few days and good luck getting it to start and run good. You have to clean the filters, tank, carb lines and theres always moisture to deal with.
I don't pretend to be an expert or even claim to know a great deal about ethanol based fuels, just what I've personally experienced in the past.

[67ChevyRedneck]

I was watching Modern Marvels on History channel last night and they showed that switchgrass yielded almost 1,300 gallons per acre, and corn was like 400 gallons per acre.

[shifty]

Switchgrass is a much better alternative to corn and grows abundantly in the US.

It upsets me to hear about corn having such problems - but it's great that it's booming. There are many other alternatives, and people will figure it out.

Also, as stated previously, you can make alcohol out of fermenting almost anything, and we could no dobut produce hundreds of thousands of gallons of ethanol each year from the leftovers of beer breweries - think of what we could get out of Anheuser Busch alone (DRINK BEER FOR AMERICAN FUEL INDEPENDENCE! )

I'd drink a beer with dinner evernight to boost our chances of fuel independece

[boundstaffpress]

I'm very supportive of ethanol production for many of the reasons stated above.
I've heard lately that the total cost (environmental and cash) is too much when you figure that to make ethanol you still have to burn coal. So we trade oil consumption for coal consumption, either way it isn't renewable.
My minivan is flexfuel. I'd buy another one. But we still don't have e-85 available out here is the sticks of SE Colorado.

[hawaiianblue72]

This is a great thread. We have an Ethanol Plant being built about 10 miles from my home. I hope to get a job at this plant (hopefully). It will bring about 40-50 badly needed jobs to this area that has lost many factory jobs (IH Plow/Planter Plant) and coal mining jobs. Plus it will help farmers who raise corn and cattle. I think anything we can do to cut the use of foreign oil is great. Thanks for all the great info.

[skokie]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

I was watching Modern Marvels on History channel last night and they showed that switchgrass yielded almost 1,300 gallons per acre, and corn was like 400 gallons per acre.

I have seen that show. Good info. Also my 2 cents is that ethanol ALONE will not solve this issue. But its a good place to start.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by skokie

I have seen that show. Good info. Also my 2 cents is that ethanol ALONE will not solve this issue. But its a good place to start.

They also showed geothermal energy and wind power to create electricity. It was awesome. I missed portions of it, I hope it's on again soon.

Another thing was rechargable electric/gas hybrids that got 100 mpg and didn't even use gas until it was above 35 mph.... and an idea to recharge them... a solar panel parking deck so the owners could plug in while at work!

[hawaiianblue72]

Have you seen anything about the Chevy Volt? This looks like an exciting Car. It looks cool and is a plug in electric car.

[jimmydean]

I would gladly pay double for a renewable resource. That is my thinking behind converting my truck as soon as it's available locally. If my truck runs a little worse, then I will tune it a little better.

If a BioDiesel car can win a race, then my truck can be fun to drive on E85. It just might take a lot of work (but what doesn't on this project, right?)

<edit> For those who didn't hear, it was running Bio:

Fuel economy spurs Audi diesel to victory

Posted Oct 23rd 2006

Admitting they didn't have the fastest car in the field, Audi drivers Dindo Capello and Allan McNish relied on the fuel economy of their diesel-powered R10 to win the season-ending American Le Mans race at Laguna Seca over the weekend. The team moved into the lead when early front-runners had to pit. After recovering from stop-and-go penalty for causing an accident, the team pitted with a third of the race remaining, hoping the engine's fuel economy would go the distance. The Audi regained the lead when the rest of the field had to pit for the last time and ended up racing for 90 minutes on one tank of diesel fuel. Audi has won every race this season.

[FarmTruk]

I just don't want my vehicle's exhaust to smell like French Fries. I'm fat enough already without having the urge to drive-thru McD's every time I go somewhere.

[cstanley]

Originally Posted by hawaiianblue72

Have you seen anything about the Chevy Volt? This looks like an exciting Car. It looks cool and is a plug in electric car.

that thing's gonna be cool! runs for the first 40 miles on electricity alone, then gas generator kicks on. catch is that about 75-80% of us don't drive more than that to work every day...that means you don't even use gas!

our new building that we will be moving into next month is a LEED certified building, and in order to earn some of the points, they had to put plug-in stations for plug-in hybrids. the cool part? it's front-row-joe parking...