Suspend "Cash For Clunkers"?

[streetstar]

Lord knows fellas, i have thought about this ---- my wife could use an inexpensive car, and my K-5 probably has a re-sell of less than 2500 (if that). But the thought of the Blazer just being destroyed sends chills up my spine and really reminds of the Charlton Heston "From my cold dead hands!" speech. I would rather take the hickey by selling it to another enthusiast i think. Another quote that comes to mind is from a country singer --- "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything"







CLIP to the CHuck Heston speech below

YouTube - From my cold dead hands

[watahyahknow]

i think there will be people buying a clunker just to make a little profit when buying a new one

[Leinie]

You need to own it at least a year, and how many billions will we have spent by then?

[N2TRUX]

I went to get my tires rotated today at my local tire shop. Next door is a Pontiac/GMC dealership that I have bought several vehicles from. This is a very high volume dealership, or was.

It was really sad to see an almost empty lot on one side that once contained hundreds of new Pontiac's. On the other side where the new GMC are stored it was at 30% capacity.

I stopped my buddy that's a Sales Rep as he walked past with a stack of papers. They were all deals pending on this CARS program.

He said he is making deals like mad, but can't get them approved. Even though he has proper documentation for all of them, the Fed/Gov system is rejecting 4 out of 5.

He feels that the system is so back logged that it is just "timing out" before they approve so he has to try to resubmit them.

He said it's a huge hassle, but one he will take considering how slow business has been.

Despite the problems, this is a program that truly is stimulating the local economy.

[tcb-1]

Originally Posted by Shane

6 days and it's already broke??? and they want to manage my health care?

Shane, no truer words spoken, my friend.

......oh and I'm one of those cynical engineers too. darn us for seeing the absolute in things.

[Shane]

The National Automobile Dealers Association (NADA - the folks that publish "the books" on used car prices) doesn't seem to think this is going as good as some would have you believe.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/31/auto...ion=2009073120

[Liz]

This post has been reported as politics.. I suppose it is, it cant really not be.. BUT its been civil and not "political". As long as it stays that way, its fine.

One point that really has not been brought up is how this will effect the techs. Its something to think about. There will be more "new" cars out there, and less decade old. Blue, Andy etc ya'll know what you work on most. Just MHO, but I expect to see flag hours get worse due to this.

[watahyahknow]

Originally Posted by Leinie

You need to own it at least a year, and how many billions will we have spent by then?

oh ok i missed that one as its not that way in holland europe

[screwballl]

the mentions about seizing up the engines is just BS... the official guidelines call for removing the engine and tranny before crushing the car, and then the engine and tranny can be parted out and sold piece by piece, but not as a whole.
So I suspect there is some sort of scam or misunderstanding going on by the government falsely explaining to the dealers to "seize" the engine. They meant seize as in TAKE IT OUT, not blow it up/stop it from working.

Of course the official website even has completely conflicting answers and information. One page says:

The entity crushing or shredding the vehicles in this manner will be allowed to sell some parts of the vehicle prior to crushing or shredding it, but these parts cannot include the engine or the drive train.

Yet another page says:

The vehicle to be shredded or crushed can have the engine and drivetrain removed and sold as individual parts but not as a whole. Parts from the vehicle to be shredded or crushed can be removed by a licensed salvage yard to be sold only as replacement parts, not as a whole vehicle.

[corn]

Originally Posted by screwballl

the mentions about seizing up the engines is just BS... the official guidelines call for removing the engine and tranny before crushing the car, and then the engine and tranny can be parted out and sold piece by piece, but not as a whole.
So I suspect there is some sort of scam or misunderstanding going on by the government falsely explaining to the dealers to "seize" the engine. They meant seize as in TAKE IT OUT, not blow it up/stop it from working.

Of course the official website even has completely conflicting answers and information. One page says:



Yet another page says:

http://www.cashforclunkersfacts.com/...ne-destruction

[ERASER5]

Originally Posted by Shane

6 days and it's already broke??? and they want to manage my health care?

!!! Nailed that one!

[Longhorn Man]

i see it as flawed in many many ways, but as soon as you make something "look green" politicians... and the general public... jump all over it. I could point out many things that are labeled as green, but are not nearly as green as they would like you to think.
This plan is one of them.
One of the things I liked about it initially, was that no real valuable classics would parish. I had NOT thought about low income families looking for a new ride. I speak from a life time of being low income, it can be next to impossible to locate something that is cheap, and worth having. This kills any chance of them getting a decent car anytime soon.
As for liz's point of hurting shops, I work at a fleet shop, so we won't be effected by it as much, however, the typical light duty (one ton or less) that comes in our place is 5 to 12 years old. I can see how this could ruin a small shop that caters to the public.
There is the 3 R rule for being environmentally responsible.
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle.
One of the biggest part of being green, that the politicians, and the general public has forgotten, is reuse.
The energy used to produce something, a new auto in this case, is something that no one ever takes into consideration.
Is it "greener" to have a perfectly tuned 100,000 mile old car with 5 year outdated smog controls.... or is it "greener" to buy a new car of comparable size/performance/engine displacement?
Common sense dictates that it would be greener to have the older car. Even though its tail pipe emissions may be a tick higher, and the MPG may be a tick less, what is the 'carbon footprint' left by building it... when there is one already there and already built?
However, common sense is not so common anymore.
There's a quote from the move Men in Black;

kay from MIB
A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.

People like to use the term green to ge there ideas to fly. If you have a product, and want wal mart to sell it, then find the most pathetic reason to call it green, and they'll pick it up. Wal Mart, and any other large chain.
By putting the term clunker in this program, they prety much INSTANTLY got alll the tree huggers on board. Evn though many of the cars traded in are not considered clunkers by any 'green' definition, as soon as they saw clunker in there, they said do it.
But, the real reason, as most people already know, is to jump start the auto industry. By giving Mr and Mrs J.Q. Public a huge discount, they are getting them in the dealership showrooms and getting them to buy cars.
People have to sell the cars,
people have to deliver those cars,
people have to build these cars,
people have to design these cars.
People have to finance these cars
Thats a lot of people. People who have been working 20 hr weeks, or worse.
By getting these people back to work, they are getting a pay check... or a bigger pay check.
Tax the pay.
These people are buying more stuff
Tax the stuff.
Instant revanue
Not to mention, the taxes on the sale of the car, taxes (fees) on the financing, on the insurance and registration of all these new cars, many at a higher rate than the older cars (depending on what state you are in).
So in making a small handfull of people think they are saving the world by talking green talk (clunkers) they are able to try and jump start things again. In some ways, this is better than the other attempts. In other ways, not so good.
As for the comment;

On the other hand, how many of those car sales were American-made vehicles.

Define an american vehicle.
A ford, or chevy that is built outside our boarders, that have corperate offices here?
A honda or Toyota that is built here with offices overseas?
There are no american cars, and many of the imports, are just as american as the not american cars.
Some of this nations top exports over the last 15 or so years has been foreign cars. I know of a small city just west of here that is supported and embloied by mostly people who work for a honda... a "foreign" company.
Exactly how "foreign" are they?

It still sucks, that we can't reuse some of these parts.

You can't please all the people all the time.

[WorkinLonghorn]

Good post LHM.
From reading the info in some of the above posts,

I think the only parts not recycleable would be the engine parts affected by the seizure process.The rest is fair game I believe.(?)

Personally I almost went for this deal UNTIL I learned about this sick "seize the engine" BS. My "clunker" has the sweetest,smoothest engine I've ever had in a vehicle and it's been great for 130,000+ miles. It's just not right to do this to it.

[corn]

I dont really see it hurting repair shops that much. People junk cars all the time. Same thing really.

I just dont get the engine deal. Its ok to go to a parts recycler & buy the rest of those cars, but not its good used running engine?

[heavychevy79]

It's the same thing as the Air Check Texas, but the whole car makes it to the
junkyard, but no engine/drive train parts can be sold, and there is no age limit on air check.

SEMA stopped the CARS program from excepting anything 25 years or older.
http://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2009/...ogram-launched

I see classics in good condition all the time at the junkyards, that's why I run
an ad on Craigslist that I buy dead Chevy trucks and pay more than the junkyards. Nothing goes to waste at my junkyard.

[big_al_71]

It has been super succesfull for us at the dealer. We have done over 30 "Clunker" deals and have gotten some serious piece of craps off the road.....
I could care less about "Green" the only "Green" I care about has ($$$) in it!!!!
The program is on and it is a great opportunitty for many involved.

One example I was personally involved in with one of my techs. He had a 96 ford f150 falling apart I would not give him $20.00 for it we took it in on the clunker programm het got himself a brand new corolla for 206.00 a month for five years with no money out of pocket with the gas savings alone he could make for the car payment.

[chevyboy55]

I took advantage of it.Here's my situation & why we did it.I had a 1988 3/4 2 wheel drive pick up,171,000 miles.Burned a pretty fair amount of oil,the drivers side door hinge was shot,you had to yank upwards when slamming it just to get it to close.The passenger side power window motor just took a crap 2 weeks ago,the A/C did not work,stereo did not work.It was a POS go to work truck.I was looking at replacing it anyway.Part 2 of the situation.My son is going to transfer to WSU in Jan. to finish his last 2 years of college.WSU is in Eastern Wash. where it gets cold & snowy.He was not going to take his 72 LWB 2wd over there,we planned on getting my wife a new car & letting him use her 01 Durango that's 4wd & lots better over the mountain passes than his pick up.Sooo, it fit our problem perfectly,get $4500 for a $800 pickup, she gets a car we planned on buying anyway, I get to drive his 72 LWB until he's done with school,then I get the Durango back.Plus between the clunker money,dealer discounts & manufacturer rebates we paid $20,000 for a $27,995 car.

[Stocker]

Nice to hear a couple of examples where the program worked the way it should.... or at least the way I thought it should! When I first heard of it, my thoughts were that it could be great for someone with a worn-out, barely running genuine 'clunker' that was worth next to nothing, and they wanted to buy new anyway. It would give them a really nice sweetener to help seal the deal.

[special-K]

They can`t afford to buy enough vehicles to have a big effect on repair shops...or the amount of these vehicles on the road,for that matter.But,this is just one way they are trying.I expect to see more.

Cash for Clunkers was supposed to run out of money.It`s wasn`t intended to last.It was a set amount of money going out with no return.The faster it ran out the more successful it was.That`s what I`m saying.

[Shane]

So why are they trying to get more money if it was designed to use only the original amount?

[kingsolver72]

Originally Posted by special-K

.It`s wasn`t intended to last.It was a set amount of money going out with no return.The faster it ran out the more successful it was.That`s what I`m saying.

Thats the way it is with a lot government programs..They werent supposed to last for ever..but they do.

[tekno62]

Originally Posted by heavychevy79

I see classics in good condition all the time at the junkyards, that's why I run
an ad on Craigslist that I buy dead Chevy trucks and pay more than the junkyards. Nothing goes to waste at my junkyard.

Man thats a great idea. wish I had the cash and room to do it.

[MacAttack]

For every billion given away by Washington DC for this project, each American tax payer goes further in debt by about $7.50.

[watahyahknow]

the amount of people able to pay tax rise too the cash for clunkersdeal is still cheaper for the goverment than paying for the people that have to be in whellfare because there fired do to the low amound of cars sold
the idea behind the keeping people having a job by subsidising things like this might work but i wonder if it will work on the long run or just live things up for a bit , maibe the econemy just need that little push to get started again

[Shane]

6 months from now there will be another "bail out" but instead of mortgage payments this time it will be for folks that cannot make car payments.