Death of a Plainsman

[Keith Seymore]

Over here you would have to get a "state issued" VIN, if you decided to start over. It would bare no resemblance to the factory issued VIN interms of characters, meaning and sequence.

Regarding: "...someone said GM can reissue VINS": do you mean for vehicles where the VIN has been altered/defaced? No - that would be the state issued VIN above.

Or - do you mean for vehicles that are shipped to outside conversion companies? Once again - no; once the vehicle leaves the assembly plant that VIN is supposed to be forever affixed and unaltered.

I can even give an example: we are taking some North American 2011 "saleable" base vehicles and converting them to 2012 European nameplate "non saleable" vehicles. Even in this extreme case we will leave the VIN as it is (normally non-saleable vehicles get an "EX" VIN).

K

[motornut]

I was told it was a converson done to a heavy half?
would that explain the 16 inch tires,on the door sticker?
And the vin is ok
and how can i tell if this was done

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by motornut

Thanks ,could it be kept the with the same vin would it be done ok in the USA.
Someone said GM can reissue vins?
lol if it works out maybe this will be the first and only one.
Being ordered for a conversion from the factory.
i just didn't worry bout the engine change etc till NOW

My state will install a new VIN tag onto a cab that matches the frame VIN if you swap a cab out as long as you have the paperwork to prove where it all came from.

I did this after I had a tree fall on my truck and smashed the cab. Got a good used cab from the wrecking yard with a bill of sale and swapped all my parts onto it then put the truck back together.

The state patrol inspection lanes guy removed the old VIN plate from the dash and riveted a new state tag onto the dash which had the frame VIN number stamped into it.

It may take a little paperwork to find out the story behind your rig and track down the last registered owner of the frame VIN based vehicle. The police should be able to do this for you just to prove it is not stolen.

[motornut]

how to tell? if the front axle etc was added,and i guess the tbi is then aftermarket

[Keith Seymore]

That SPID label is from a 1/2 ton suburban:

CV10906 =
C = Chevy
V = 4wd "R/V" style vehicle
109 = 1/2 ton, lwb
06 = Suburban.

Just FWIW -

K

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by motornut

how to tell? if the front axle etc was added,and i guess the tbi is then aftermarket

L05 is a TBI 350 option code from 87 to 95 so that glove box matches the engine that is in there.

I have seen MD8 and MX0 on vehicles of mine with the 700R4 / 4L60 trans which also fits your drivetrain.

The 8th digit W in the VIN you have correlates to a 454 for 1985 which would also have come with a T400 which if I remember right was option code M30.

Makes me think there is some funny business with titles going on especially with Keith's statement that it was not possible to get TBI in 1985 in any form on a truck.

The chassis looks correct and is most likely an 87 to 91 vintage setup from a half ton Suburban.

You need to get a look at the chassis VIN and see if it has been obliterated too like the SPID tag and door tag.

Look at the transfer case ID tag and see if it is an NP208 or an NP241. Also check to see if it has a speedometer cable or just a VSS sender on the transfer case. This will help us identify what year the chassis really is.

The broadcast code on the ECM and the model number of the ECM will tell you too by looking up the application but many times these have been replaced so it is not a sure way to tell.

[motornut]

would there be front axle numbers some where if aftermarket.I was told the transfer was rebuilt on the way to Canada but in the US .And just today found number 984 stamped to the firewall

[motornut]

door number seemed funny with air pockets /worn out but told "it is an old truck" lol

[motornut]

door sticker was close enough it's for the vin in the dash

[motornut]

from what i see it's all there,and then some lol

[motornut]

still pokin at this thing........hasn't bit me yet lol.if it was a carb it would have less gas lines then a tbi?no numbers on the frame i can see.does gm offer/sell/have info that can be ordered from them on older trucks


http://chevroletsilverado.net/1985-chevrolet-silverado/

above website is the first to say tbi in 85 i have found

[GmtGmt]

its not the first time i have heard about TBI in 85 on trucks but i think keith would be the one to belive in as he was there and know what these trucks came with

[motornut]

http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20history.htm

There has been minor changes over the years. The 1985 system is a one year only, as it has a separate "piggyback" mass air flow (MAF) control module on the ecm, and a one year only ecm, #1226870. It will not electrically interchange with the 1986-89 harness. In 1989, however the cold start injector was eliminated. In 1990, The mass air flow was eliminated and speed density control was introduced. It required a different harness and computer. This system was used all the way up 1992, where it was replaced by the shorter runner designed LT1 and LT4 power plants.

not sure if they are talking tpi or tbi

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by motornut

http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20history.htm

There has been minor changes over the years. The 1985 system is a one year only, as it has a separate "piggyback" mass air flow (MAF) control module on the ecm, and a one year only ecm, #1226870. It will not electrically interchange with the 1986-89 harness. In 1989, however the cold start injector was eliminated. In 1990, The mass air flow was eliminated and speed density control was introduced. It required a different harness and computer. This system was used all the way up 1992, where it was replaced by the shorter runner designed LT1 and LT4 power plants.

not sure if they are talking tpi or tbi

Right - but that's for passenger car.

TBI was introduced in 1986 for M van, and 1987 for R/V truck.

The idea was to roll the technology out on a smaller scale before releasing it across the full truck line (including the new C/K aka GMT400) in 1988.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by motornut

door sticker was close enough it's for the vin in the dash

Not close enough: for example, there are no 16" truck rallys like you have on this Suburban (15" only).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Motornut -

I think I'm starting to see what happened with your truck.

I think it's a straight up VIN swap. I don't know why someone would do that in this day and age. Back in the 60s, the main reason would be because the vehicle was stolen.

The SPID label matches the content on the body (as you have shown). It even matches the chassis content (powertrain and axles), which implies the chassis has not been altered. Everything here seems to add up and be a complete unit.

The only thing that doesn't match the hardware you are showing is the VIN tag itself on the IP. The door sticker tag matches the VIN tag on the IP (but not the content on the truck) because a previous owner pulled it off a different vehicle and applied it to this truck (that's why the printing is so defaced and why it's so bubbly).

You (or someone) covered up the VIN on the SPID label. I'd be willing to bet it does not match the VIN tag on the IP. Am I right?

If so, then I'd say the original, unaltered VIN is the one on the SPID.

Quote: "...It's an old truck." I think somebody is pulling your leg.

K

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by motornut

http://chevythunder.com/fuel%20injection%20history.htm

There has been minor changes over the years. The 1985 system is a one year only, as it has a separate "piggyback" mass air flow (MAF) control module on the ecm, and a one year only ecm, #1226870. It will not electrically interchange with the 1986-89 harness. In 1989, however the cold start injector was eliminated. In 1990, The mass air flow was eliminated and speed density control was introduced. It required a different harness and computer. This system was used all the way up 1992, where it was replaced by the shorter runner designed LT1 and LT4 power plants.

not sure if they are talking tpi or tbi

That is for the TPI systems.

[68 TT]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

Motornut -

I think I'm starting to see what happened with your truck.

I think it's a straight up VIN swap. I don't know why someone would do that in this day and age. Back in the 60s, the main reason would be because the vehicle was stolen.

The SPID label matches the content on the body (as you have shown). It even matches the chassis content (powertrain and axles), which implies the chassis has not been altered. Everything here seems to add up and be a complete unit.

The only thing that doesn't match the hardware you are showing is the VIN tag itself on the IP. The door sticker tag matches the VIN tag on the IP (but not the content on the truck) because a previous owner pulled it off a different vehicle and applied it to this truck (that's why the printing is so defaced and why it's so bubbly).

You (or someone) covered up the VIN on the SPID label. I'd be willing to bet it does not match the VIN tag on the IP. Am I right?

If so, then I'd say the original, unaltered VIN is the one on the SPID.

Quote: "...It's an old truck." I think somebody is pulling your leg.

K

I agree. What you have is most likely an 87 to 88 half ton Suburban with a swapped VIN tag & door sticker from an 85 3/4-ton.

[motornut]

It was looked at a gm dealer here wensday i was told the truck is a light duty 3/4 ton with a possibly aftermarket kit for the (15")four wheel drive.That this setup was done in Texas for trailering and to avoid emmissions,light duty 3/4 ton came with 6 bolt wheels, those rims/wheels are off my 87 4x4 (and the ones i got with it seem to match) to me it was the same truck ,till it drives as it always seemed heavier.I was worried bout it being stolen they checked it out said it matches and the explanation to me makes sense now.The tbi he said thought it was possible he had seen it before.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by motornut

It was looked at a gm dealer here wensday i was told the truck is a light duty 3/4 ton with a possibly aftermarket kit for the (15")four wheel drive.That this setup was done in Texas for trailering and to avoid emmissions,light duty 3/4 ton came with 6 bolt wheels, those rims/wheels are off my 87 4x4 (and the ones i got with it seem to match) to me it was the same truck ,till it drives as it always seemed heavier.I was worried bout it being stolen they checked it out said it matches and the explanation to me makes sense now.The tbi he said thought it was possible he had seen it before.

I'm afraid that's total BS.

There was no light duty 3/4 ton (from the factory) - all 3/4 tons had 8 lug wheels; those are not 3/4 ton axles with any kind of conversion kit, either. Lastly, as we've said, there were no TBI's in full size trucks prior to '87.

I don't mean to be harsh but you should consider finding another GM dealer.

K

[motornut]

eitherway having owned the truck for 8 years,i'm not done sorting this out.Ive known the dealer for ever,we lost a lot of dealers up here,being one left must mean somethings been done right.Maybe you were off that day i duno i go by what i've been told,and you say no 3/4ton were built with 6 bolt axles....


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=127471

even here it says it,and would show that the truck was older like you say

[RandyP]

Sad thing is though motornut, more than just a few are telling you how it really is and you're just not believing them/us. Is the main reason I quit posting on your stuff, you are believing what you want to believe and it's wrong.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by motornut

eitherway having owned the truck for 8 years,i'm not done sorting this out.Ive known the dealer for ever,we lost a lot of dealers up here,being one left must mean somethings been done right.Maybe you were off that day i duno i go by what i've been told,and you say no 3/4ton were built with 6 bolt axles....


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=127471

even here it says it,and would show that the truck was older like you say

I'm talking specifically the 73-87 C/K/R/V. I thought it was obvious, but should have said so. I worked on that product line exclusively, in both the assembly plant and engineering (design and development), from 1979 until 1992.

I really hate to play the "I worked there so I know" card, but I should add that when the dealerships didn't know how to fix a truck (anywhere in the US) - I'm the one they called.

You are free to believe whomever you like, but if you really want to get to the bottom of this I would encourage you to consider what we are trying to tell you.

K

[motornut]

First let me say this is not something i have done to the truck myself.
Thanks for the help.i was being a smart ass asking if you were off that day.
I did post a pic, here it is post 14, asking about the inside of the door marks there are marks melted in pointing up to the years 88.
you mentioned, as i asked about the eng change was engineering,not engine.aside from what has been said on here (re:tbi,3/4ton)those marks on the door panel are the only thing that gives a hint of it being a later year,that i have found.(untill now this option of 6 bolt 3/4 ton wheels seems to start later too),if thats what this truck is.
This 85 truck resembles everything in my 87 ,any parts i swaped over as needed,or refered to the 87 when ordering something not found for the 85

This is my first "forum" i have ever posted on re:trucks or cars.
this all started because i was helping someone figure out their own truck.I don't care what setup it came with i'm more concered with it being stolen,or not.
My gm dealer is one my family has known for 50 + years,so thats not gona change.When i brought the truck in it was not put on a hoist,nor did we even have time to lift the hood.the gentleman i spoke with was not a younger person,he surprised me with the info that i posted,and i felt he was informed and his answers made sense,with no reason to disbelieve him it was posted,as i understood it.As for not answering posts well thanks for not helping as i try to solve this issue,i thought people had just not seen the posts re: looking for frame numbers,hidden vins etc.Friends and I have gone over this truck i think fairly well looking for extra numbers,even after being told by some "helpful" members where to look,nothing was found.

someone sent me an email re "Vintage gm" so i have contacted them and appears "if you pay they will say" what the options were,about $200.
100 is for Canada info,100 for the Us info,since the truck is from US i have to pay the 100 to Canada,first for info (if nothing found)then the extra for the US
Is there an easier way?should i /could i just do a US check?

any reason for a 8 in the vin?
can the frame number location be narrowed down by someone?
After 8 years of looking for info on the"Vacation Customs" a Texas company,( I now know more "customs done on vacations",and "custom vacation packages" than i care too).
i have only ever found one other truck by them,and he's here too, but we still have no info.

And what i read apparently if the engine/option was not offered,that year, it's excempt from the etest (here anyway 85 is now) ,maybe someone redid it trying to get around the test

[Keith Seymore]

Motornut:

Is there a VIN on the SPID label?

Does it match the VIN on the IP?

Originally Posted by motornut

still pokin at this thing........hasn't bit me yet lol.if it was a carb it would have less gas lines then a tbi?no numbers on the frame i can see.does gm offer/sell/have info that can be ordered from them on older trucks


http://chevroletsilverado.net/1985-chevrolet-silverado/

above website is the first to say tbi in 85 i have found

Just read the attached link. Unfortunately the website is not correct.

It also says the '85 had air bags, traction control, driver's knee air bags, rack and pinion steering and xenon headlamps. Most of those features were still years away.

It's like they took that paragraph and copied it from somewhere else without even reading it.

K