I don't know, 0w-30 in the Differential? - Page 2 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

68 Suburban · 03-02-2003, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by longhornmail
Do you remember my post on the torque plus intake gaskets? http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=21908
They helped my MPG.

I just read that the other night. Do you have any recent figures? Now that you have had them on for a while.

68 Suburban · 03-02-2003, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 72CustomCamper
You asked for it:p

New thread coming...

NO! I dont think I can take the public humiliation

Jesse 67 c-10 · 03-02-2003, 02:30 AM

I spose the only way to find out for sure if the oil works is fro someone to try it. Take a hard drive in your truck, listen to what it sounds like and feel the rear after for heat, change to the synthetic, take it for another drive, listen again and check for heat after. I have no doubt that your milage would improve slightly, not 20% though, unless your using 100w grease at -40 before! If it heats up the first time you know its no good, and could just change back. if it works though I bet it would pay for itself in no time.

mikep · 03-02-2003, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 68 Suburban
While I appreciate your input, I could deal a little less with the comments that make me look like an idiot for discussing it

You are the one advocating using 0-30 in differentials in heavy trucks which is something that I for one consider idiotic. Just because a company develops a product they hope someone will buy so they can make a buttload of profit before the market drops out doesnt mean that its something which is going to benefit you or anyone else in the long run so unless you have 40 years worth of experience with this stuff stop pushing it. The limited slip Dana 60 differential in my truck was manufactured in October 1962 and as far as I can tell was one of the first dana 60 differentials made. That was 41 years ago. Its in perfect condition and has used 90 or 75-90 weight gear oil all its life. Can you tell me with certainty that it would be in the same condition were it using a MUCH lighter grade of oil. If you cant then dont advocate to others the possibly dangerous practice of using an unproven lubricant. Ive had to rebuild countless very large industrial steering gear cases because of salesmens claims of superior lubrication with synthetic oils. I put 75-90 weight back in and the problems go away. The possibility of gaining 1 mpg is not worth the possibly disastrous repurcusions of using the lighter grade of oil.

CE20934 · 03-02-2003, 01:51 PM

Why would ExxonMobil sell one of its trademarks to a competitor, Royal Dutch Shell? That alone turns me off to their pie-in-the-sky claims.

ChevLoRay · 03-02-2003, 02:27 PM

He raised a valid question, namely things that can be done to improve fuel mileage. In this situation, the subject matter is a change to the lubricant in the rear end. This question in no way implies that any given person is an idiot, or stupid, or anything less than what they were before the question was posed.

We, as humans, tend to group things into a basket that is labeled "BS". I know, the old saying that says that "if it is too good to be true, then it probably is", should always cause us to question the concept. But, don't shoot the messenger!

I wonder what NASCAR uses in their rear ends? If you remember the #12 car rolling toward the infield at Daytona, you may recall the liquid spewing from the hose attached to the rear end. I wonder if a lighter weight lubricant would tend toward venting from the axle, when hot and under pressure (caused by the meshing of the gears). I am no engineer of any type, but my gut (big enough to cite as a resource) says lighter-weight oils in the rear end might be vented as heat and pressure build up. Also, is there a possibility that the axle seals may not retain the lubricant? It's kinda like antifreeze making water "thinner", that is whereas your water pump didn't leak when you had straight water in the cooling system, and now that you add antifreeze, it leaks.

As for later model transaxles using thinner (lighter viscosity) oils, that is done "by design". Yeah, it's done for energy-saving measures, which is why we buy them in the first place. However, save for the VW Rabbit Pickup and the Plymouth/Dodge Rampages, I don't see the manufacturers jumping through hoops to bring a FWD pick up to the market. Yeah, I know they're made and marketed in other countries....but not in the USA.

This was my nickles' worth.

shadetree · 03-02-2003, 02:28 PM

68 Burb, one item to consider in all this thin vs thick lube is: the "axle eater" wheel bearings GM uses on these trucks may need the older lube. Yes? No? Who knows? Your original question is a very good one, and this discussion has brought up some good items. Peronally, I wouldn't try the thin stuff on something I was wanting to keep, or that I depended on. However, if somebody DOES try this, and it works, please post results, or post pictures of the smoking ruins of your diff, if it doesn't. steve

Locutus · 03-02-2003, 02:38 PM

Mikep should reread the orginal post. 68 Sub was in no way advocating the use of a thinner lubricant. He was meerly opening a discussion on a topic that is of intrest to almost anyone that has to work for a living. I think Mikep should reconsider posting at all if he can't refrain from slamming people for bringing new ideas to light. It may or may not work as 68 said but we all have something new to think about and whats wrong with that. When people stop questioning the status quo that is when new technology stops coming to market and we as a country and a world stop progressing. I for one do not want to see the day we stop moving forward and become content to live with things as the are.

Mike

68 Suburban · 03-02-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikep

You are the one advocating using 0-30 in differentials in heavy trucks which is something that I for one consider idiotic. Just because a company develops a product they hope someone will buy so they can make a buttload of profit before the market drops out doesnt mean that its something which is going to benefit you or anyone else in the long run so unless you have 40 years worth of experience with this stuff stop pushing it..

Mikep, There is no place I pushed this, I was very specific that it was something I read, and was curious about what I read

And if you still think this post was to "push" this idea? Re-read the title of the post.

Again you missed my point that this was not sale literature pushing this procuct for the differential. It was an idependent person who had tried this.

I don't think I have to slam you to get my point across, that you totally missed my point of the post.

It is a shame that we all can't know everything on the board

mikep · 03-02-2003, 02:51 PM

Dont take it personally man. I simply have strong feelings about lubricants. Thats pretty sad unto itself

I didnt slam anyone nor did I intend to. If I say that I think its idiotic to use a super light grade of oil in a differential that does not mean that I am calling you an idiot. I think that to do so would be a poorly informed decision but lets put this in context here. I am a guy who'm you have never met and is dispensing his dumbass opinion over the internet like its something anyone cares about . In fact I might be someone who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about living in a county jail somewhere and has never owned anything mechanical and couldnt figure out my backlash from a whole in the ground.

68 Suburban · 03-02-2003, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mikep
I simply have strong feelings about lubricants.

hmmm, Ill leave that one alone :p

The point is, we are here to learn, not to be made to look stupid when a question is asked. I look at the board as a great place to exchange ideas and get input.

k1072 · 03-02-2003, 03:00 PM

One thing to point out is that engine oil and gear lube are rated on different scales. Straight 30 engine oil compares to around
70 or 80 gear oil. But there is more to it than just viscosity.

Longhorn Man · 03-02-2003, 03:32 PM

I don't have any new MPG figures...I pretty much only drive in town these days, and to find that number would be simply too depressing.

72c10 · 03-03-2003, 08:59 AM

the way I see it is I did not buy my truck for the gas milage, and Im sure there are ways to save on gas like putting in a 250 straight six instead of a 350 and remove all unnessesary weight like the bed. or even better convert it to electric motors and install solar panels everywhere. I dont know about you but I would rather spend the extra couple of bucks on gas.
or, just buy a peice of $hit toyota

crazy longhorn · 03-03-2003, 09:35 AM

gas milage? Waaazat!

Snowbound · 03-03-2003, 10:13 AM

I just completed the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology 4th class power engineering course which deals to some extent with lubricants for industrial equipment. One of the properties of a lubricant is shock absorption, and is critically important where the teeth of gears mesh together.

I have run 100's of oil pumpjacks which all use gear boxes and all use 80 or 90 weight gear oil.

We have used some silicone based oils in rotary screw gas compressors, so yes in fact some oils are not petroleum based. Certain types of refrigerants require these types of oils also, as petroleum based oils are miscible with the refrigerant.

I guess it boils down to the choice between save a little gas now and spend a bunch later on a rebuild, or play it safe. But hey, give it a try if you have nothing to lose. Where would technology be today if nobody ever took a chance on something different?

Brian

68 Suburban · 03-03-2003, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 72c10
the way I see it is I did not buy my truck for the gas milage, and Im sure there are ways to save on gas like putting in a 250 straight six instead of a 350 and remove all unnessesary weight like the bed. or even better convert it to electric motors and install solar panels everywhere. I dont know about you but I would rather spend the extra couple of bucks on gas.
or, just buy a peice of $hit toyota

The way I see it is that any improvement in gas mileage is a bonus. Especially if it can be done at a minimal expense. I never said I was looking for 40 mpg

I guess I can have my 350 and have gas mileage too

Im willing to bet that a good majority of the straight sixes are not seeing the gas mileage I am getting out of my 350.

72c10 · 03-03-2003, 08:47 PM

my I-6 was getting about 18 mpg before I pulled it im going with a TPI 350 more for power torque and reliability than for gas mileage though. I definatly understand wanting to find a way to improve your gas mileage with the prices the way they are.

Jesse 67 c-10 · 03-04-2003, 01:54 AM

I think cusion is the word of the day, the heavy oils "cusion the gears, minimizing shock, reducing noise. The gears themselves are quite hard, I don't think they would be hurt, synthetics are made to provide lots of protection. the bearings probably do better in a heavier oil though, but who knows! I bet it would be noisier but the actual quality of the oil is much better so your lubrication couldn't be worse.
I'm interested! Another thing too, my 5 spd calls for 5w30 oil, its special tranny fluid but its a light oil, you can also get the recomended synthetic stuff for heavy duty use.

68LSS1 · 03-04-2003, 02:14 AM

Ask your question here:Oil Forum
The forum is dedicated to everything having to do with oil, dino or synthetic. People here do oil analysis at changes, go in depth on filter quality issues, etc. Some of the stuff I've learned is just amazing, ie. Fram filters are not too good, Castrol Synthetic is not a synthetic, etc. Lots of good reading IMHO.

03-02-2003, 02:30 AM	#28
Jesse 67 c-10 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 599	I spose the only way to find out for sure if the oil works is fro someone to try it. Take a hard drive in your truck, listen to what it sounds like and feel the rear after for heat, change to the synthetic, take it for another drive, listen again and check for heat after. I have no doubt that your milage would improve slightly, not 20% though, unless your using 100w grease at -40 before! If it heats up the first time you know its no good, and could just change back. if it works though I bet it would pay for itself in no time. __________________ Edmonton, Alberta, 67 c-10, Long fleet, front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 with Vortechs, edlbrock manifold, comp cams XE 256, 600cfm carb. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. 1993 Dihatsu Hijet Jumbo cab 4x4, currently converting to battery electric power.

03-02-2003, 01:51 PM	#30
CE20934 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Help! I'm in an office park with its own network of freeways! Posts: 470	Why would ExxonMobil sell one of its trademarks to a competitor, Royal Dutch Shell? That alone turns me off to their pie-in-the-sky claims. __________________ '67 C20--427 tall deck/SM420, 4.10 HO52 (Michigan has not been kind to the Old Man) '95 Caprice--355 LT1/T56/3.42 8.5" 10-bolt (daily driver, almost 300k on the chassis) '07 Outback--wife's car. 125k & counting. No head gasket or transmission issues yet. fingers crossed

03-02-2003, 02:27 PM	#31
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	All he asked for was our opinion of the idea... He raised a valid question, namely things that can be done to improve fuel mileage. In this situation, the subject matter is a change to the lubricant in the rear end. This question in no way implies that any given person is an idiot, or stupid, or anything less than what they were before the question was posed. We, as humans, tend to group things into a basket that is labeled "BS". I know, the old saying that says that "if it is too good to be true, then it probably is", should always cause us to question the concept. But, don't shoot the messenger! I wonder what NASCAR uses in their rear ends? If you remember the #12 car rolling toward the infield at Daytona, you may recall the liquid spewing from the hose attached to the rear end. I wonder if a lighter weight lubricant would tend toward venting from the axle, when hot and under pressure (caused by the meshing of the gears). I am no engineer of any type, but my gut (big enough to cite as a resource) says lighter-weight oils in the rear end might be vented as heat and pressure build up. Also, is there a possibility that the axle seals may not retain the lubricant? It's kinda like antifreeze making water "thinner", that is whereas your water pump didn't leak when you had straight water in the cooling system, and now that you add antifreeze, it leaks. As for later model transaxles using thinner (lighter viscosity) oils, that is done "by design". Yeah, it's done for energy-saving measures, which is why we buy them in the first place. However, save for the VW Rabbit Pickup and the Plymouth/Dodge Rampages, I don't see the manufacturers jumping through hoops to bring a FWD pick up to the market. Yeah, I know they're made and marketed in other countries....but not in the USA. This was my nickles' worth. __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was.

03-02-2003, 02:28 PM	#32
shadetree Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Knightstown, in, usa Posts: 2,525	68 Burb, one item to consider in all this thin vs thick lube is: the "axle eater" wheel bearings GM uses on these trucks may need the older lube. Yes? No? Who knows? Your original question is a very good one, and this discussion has brought up some good items. Peronally, I wouldn't try the thin stuff on something I was wanting to keep, or that I depended on. However, if somebody DOES try this, and it works, please post results, or post pictures of the smoking ruins of your diff, if it doesn't. steve __________________ 1970 long fleet, 355 4 speed, primer, walnut goodies

03-02-2003, 02:51 PM	#35
mikep Used to have a truck Join Date: May 2002 Location: port orchard WA Posts: 1,552	Dont take it personally man. I simply have strong feelings about lubricants. Thats pretty sad unto itself I didnt slam anyone nor did I intend to. If I say that I think its idiotic to use a super light grade of oil in a differential that does not mean that I am calling you an idiot. I think that to do so would be a poorly informed decision but lets put this in context here. I am a guy who'm you have never met and is dispensing his dumbass opinion over the internet like its something anyone cares about . In fact I might be someone who has absolutely no idea what they are talking about living in a county jail somewhere and has never owned anything mechanical and couldnt figure out my backlash from a whole in the ground. __________________ No truck :-( Last edited by mikep; 03-02-2003 at 02:59 PM.

03-02-2003, 02:38 PM	#33
Locutus Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Santa Fe, Texas Posts: 250	Mikep should reread the orginal post. 68 Sub was in no way advocating the use of a thinner lubricant. He was meerly opening a discussion on a topic that is of intrest to almost anyone that has to work for a living. I think Mikep should reconsider posting at all if he can't refrain from slamming people for bringing new ideas to light. It may or may not work as 68 said but we all have something new to think about and whats wrong with that. When people stop questioning the status quo that is when new technology stops coming to market and we as a country and a world stop progressing. I for one do not want to see the day we stop moving forward and become content to live with things as the are. Mike

03-02-2003, 03:00 PM	#37
k1072 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: PA Posts: 8	One thing to point out is that engine oil and gear lube are rated on different scales. Straight 30 engine oil compares to around 70 or 80 gear oil. But there is more to it than just viscosity.

03-02-2003, 03:32 PM	#38
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	I don't have any new MPG figures...I pretty much only drive in town these days, and to find that number would be simply too depressing.

03-03-2003, 08:59 AM	#39
72c10 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: burlington KY Posts: 175	the way I see it is I did not buy my truck for the gas milage, and Im sure there are ways to save on gas like putting in a 250 straight six instead of a 350 and remove all unnessesary weight like the bed. or even better convert it to electric motors and install solar panels everywhere. I dont know about you but I would rather spend the extra couple of bucks on gas. or, just buy a peice of $hit toyota

03-03-2003, 09:35 AM	#40
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,403	gas milage? Waaazat!

03-03-2003, 10:13 AM	#41
Snowbound Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Westbank, BC Posts: 403	I just completed the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology 4th class power engineering course which deals to some extent with lubricants for industrial equipment. One of the properties of a lubricant is shock absorption, and is critically important where the teeth of gears mesh together. I have run 100's of oil pumpjacks which all use gear boxes and all use 80 or 90 weight gear oil. We have used some silicone based oils in rotary screw gas compressors, so yes in fact some oils are not petroleum based. Certain types of refrigerants require these types of oils also, as petroleum based oils are miscible with the refrigerant. I guess it boils down to the choice between save a little gas now and spend a bunch later on a rebuild, or play it safe. But hey, give it a try if you have nothing to lose. Where would technology be today if nobody ever took a chance on something different? Brian __________________ 1965 Chevy Short Box Stepside, 230 - 3 speed, 4:11 gears, original paint rust free survivor. Now sporting a 383 SBC and TKO-600

03-03-2003, 08:47 PM	#43
72c10 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: burlington KY Posts: 175	my I-6 was getting about 18 mpg before I pulled it im going with a TPI 350 more for power torque and reliability than for gas mileage though. I definatly understand wanting to find a way to improve your gas mileage with the prices the way they are.

03-04-2003, 01:54 AM	#44
Jesse 67 c-10 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Posts: 599	I think cusion is the word of the day, the heavy oils "cusion the gears, minimizing shock, reducing noise. The gears themselves are quite hard, I don't think they would be hurt, synthetics are made to provide lots of protection. the bearings probably do better in a heavier oil though, but who knows! I bet it would be noisier but the actual quality of the oil is much better so your lubrication couldn't be worse. I'm interested! Another thing too, my 5 spd calls for 5w30 oil, its special tranny fluid but its a light oil, you can also get the recomended synthetic stuff for heavy duty use. __________________ Edmonton, Alberta, 67 c-10, Long fleet, front disks, 5 lug rear end, 327 with Vortechs, edlbrock manifold, comp cams XE 256, 600cfm carb. Backed by a getrag 5 speed and 1 piece driveshaft. 1993 Dihatsu Hijet Jumbo cab 4x4, currently converting to battery electric power.

03-04-2003, 02:14 AM	#45
68LSS1 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,191	Ask your question here:Oil Forum The forum is dedicated to everything having to do with oil, dino or synthetic. People here do oil analysis at changes, go in depth on filter quality issues, etc. Some of the stuff I've learned is just amazing, ie. Fram filters are not too good, Castrol Synthetic is not a synthetic, etc. Lots of good reading IMHO. __________________ '68 Short Step LS1/T56, Hydratech, Fatman Fabrications Stage III, Baer, Hot Rods to Hell, US Body, S&W, etc



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