400 help

[Silverray76]

Originally Posted by 3r!c84

High hopes.. What's the price range on the motor build.
Posted via Mobile Device

a bi weekly pay check like around 1600 a month

[85Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Silverray76

All of the advice is helping guys.

This truck is my daily i drive no more than 4 miles to work and only 12 round trip to school. Its a 2x4. I'm deciding to do this because im rebuilding the entire truck all over again and i would like more hp out of a new motor. I would like for my truck to run at least a 12 sec and i was planning to go out and find a rear end with 373 gears and posi. I want to keep it a auto and i belive my tranny has a B&M 2100 stall convertor and i plan to run pump gas

If you want to run 12's on regular octane gas you better learn about this thing called "quench"......and plan on using aluminum heads.

[Silverray76]

Originally Posted by 85Bowtie

If you want to run 12's on regular octane gas you better learn about this thing called "quench"......and plan on using aluminum heads.

Quench? please explain

[jrcaprai]

[QUOTE=406 Q-ship;4851763 a high RPM engine wears itself out faster, is more expensive to build because it requires better valvetrain and bottom end componants to stay together with the heavier 3.75 stroke To get the RPM to 7000 with a 3.75 stroke will require a cam that does not come on till at least 3000 RPM, That big of a cam will require a bigger stall converter, deeper gears, and low engine vacuum (think no boost on the power brakes), all of these things will get you a real gas using engine that is not fun on a daily driver, I am not trying to offend just give all the realitys. Do yourself and your wallet a favor, keep the RPM down to 6000 and under. My 406 pulls right up to 5500 and is the most fun you can have with your clothes on. Besides I run a stock L88 torque converter (2200 stall) and 3.31 gears and it runs down the highway without turning 3500 to go 65 mph.[/QUOTE]



You don't have to run to 7000 RPM all the time... I don't... But when I do.

that old saying goes, How fast do you want to go? how much money do you want to Spend?

What do you mean with the "heavier" 3.75 Stroke???? 3.75 Stroke is Stock...

The RPM's come on sooo Quick that 3000 RPM is a Blink of an eye... Mine I'm Sure has as much or more torque than most at 3000... there is no Lag time..Whatsoever.

I'll give you the Brakes and Gas Mileage... I had to add a vacuum Reservoir
and I get about 8 MPG

I have 3.73 Gears and a 3000 RPM Converter, and it runs about 3800 RPM at 65, which does suck, but that's what Overdrive Transmissions are for...

Do your self a favor and get a Hydraulic Roller Cam... most Big engine builders are pushing their customers away from Flat tappets, due to the high rate of failure, due to the lack of ZDDP in today's oils...

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by jrcaprai

You don't have to run to 7000 RPM all the time... I don't... But when I do. Don't you think that 5800 to 6000 is fun too? The OP sounds like he might be on a tighter budget than you were, so keeping the RPM down will make the build much more economical

that old saying goes, How fast do you want to go? how much money do you want to Spend? If you have the cash and want to spend it.

What do you mean with the "heavier" 3.75 Stroke???? 3.75 Stroke is Stock... The longer the stroke then the heavier the counter weight on the crank, so it is harder on a 400 crank than a 350 crank to spin it to 7000. As the rpm and the weight rises the forces on the crank goes up exponentually. In other words if you double the weight of the crank the forces go up by a factor of four.

The RPM's come on sooo Quick that 3000 RPM is a Blink of an eye... Mine I'm Sure has as much or more torque than most at 3000... there is no Lag time..Whatsoever. That is your 3000 stall converter doing its job and your cam comes in at right around 3000. Mine starts pulling at 1500 with a big long flat torque curve that makes for a fun driver, without all the issues. I don't need deep gears, high stall, and mine has gotten 17 MPH (TH400) in a 4000 lbs car that will run 12.90's all day long. I am not knocking your build, just not the engine I would do in a full size truck.

I'll give you the Brakes and Gas Mileage... I had to add a vacuum Reservoir
and I get about 8 MPG

I have 3.73 Gears and a 3000 RPM Converter, and it runs about 3800 RPM at 65, which does suck, but that's what Overdrive Transmissions are for...

Do your self a favor and get a Hydraulic Roller Cam... most Big engine builders are pushing their customers away from Flat tappets, due to the high rate of failure, due to the lack of ZDDP in today's oils...I totally agree on the Hydraulic Roller cam but will raise another issue with high RPM. HYD Roller cams have heavy lifters and it does nasty things when you get spining them real hard. Keep the RPM 6000 and under or you will see bad valvetrain harmonics (read valve float), unless you invest in a rev kit.

Whatever way the OP descides to build it, the 400 is a barrel of fun engine!

[85Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Silverray76

Quench? please explain

Sure...

Quench can be explained as the "squish" in the combustion chamber. Basically, you have 2 kinds of heads....open chamber and closed chamber. Obtaining quench, from my experience, is most easily obtained on a closed chamber style head. The concept is to get the top of the piston as close to the head as possible (within ~.035"-~.055"). The way this works on a closed chamber head is the chamber that's now "filled" or flush with the head serves as the area where the piston will make near contact. You can get the piston within the desired spec by either shaving the block height the right amount or going with a taller piston (increased compression height...the height from the center of the pin to the top of the piston). The route you go is up to you and depends on the parts available. You can do a little of both. For example, I just built a Chrysler 383. The aftermarket piston choice is pretty minimal for a Chry 383 so I had to be creative. I shaved .010" off my block, which allowed me to use the stock rocker set up and stock length pushrods as well as not cutting the intake. Then I found a set of pistons with a slightly taller CH. With a .039" gasket (I was limited on gasket thickness because of the aluminum heads) I am getting ~.050" clearance between the piston and the head.

What does quench do for you? It creats a "swirl" or "squish" inside the chamber. This creates a tighter, more evenly distributed fuel/air ratio inside the chamber that, when ignited, not only cools the chamber and top of the piston more effectively but also creates a more efficient burn due to the better distribution within the fuel charge. One area in an open chamber head that is susceptible to heat is the area opposite the spark plug, which is the shallow side of the chamber. This "small" area traps alot of heat. In a higher compression engine, as the compression increases with the piston moving up, the "trapped" heat is enough to ignite the fuel charge before the spark plug ever does....this is pre-ignition and higher octane usually solves this issue because it burns "slower". High compression and heat create an unstable environment for lower octane fuels. So the point is less heat and a more efficient burn are an easy trick to allowing you a little more forgiveness in the octane you can run in a car with healthy compression....10:1-ish and higher. The other trick is the aluminum heads, which have much better heat transfer than the iron heads. Also, the aluminum allows ~1 point higher in compression with roughly the same octane gas. In other words, in general, an aluminum headed engine with a 9.5:1 CR should be able to run on the same octane rated fuel as a steel headed engine with 8.5:1 CR assuming quench is obtained.

Does this make any sense to you now?

[85Bowtie]

Originally Posted by jrcaprai

Do your self a favor and get a Hydraulic Roller Cam... most Big engine builders are pushing their customers away from Flat tappets, due to the high rate of failure, due to the lack of ZDDP in today's oils...

Roller cams are good ideas...but the whole "high rate of failure" thing is blown way out of proportion.

A flat tappet cam is fine. Break it in correctly and run a good oil with a bottle of zinc additive and you shouldn't have any problems. You use to be able to just run Rotella Shell 15w-40 diesel oil in them but now they have something like 1400ppm zddp. I usually just pick up a bottle of Comp Cams break in lube and throw it in with an oil change, but I change the oil in my cars maybe once a year. I do however run Rotella Shell and a bottle of STP Oil Treatment in my old Diplomat with a flat tappet and it runs great...haven't wiped a lobe yet after 50,000 miles.

[MalibuKasey]

Heres my combo....power is cheap and easy.... my 400 made 525Hp/500ib tq. It was technically a 406... ask Josh... it was straight up nasty. My best pass was an 11.18 in the quarter with the converter slipping 13%. With the right stall I wouldve had a high 10 sec car. Follow this and If it doesnt make this power Ill buy it off you for what you have in it. DONE!
Mine was a 4 bolt block to start. Bored 30 over and zero decked. From there find you a stock steel crank and a set of chevy pink rods. Find you a set of good pistons... something with your compression ratio around 10:1. Heads.. I ran a set of Edelbrock performer RPM'S with the big valves, and a edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake.... now this is the important part.... Have someone port the heads and intake... and I mean a HEAVY port & polish with a gasket matched port on both.(find a serious race shop to do this not your backwoods machine shop) Dont skimp here... serious valve job and a good set of valves too. Then your going to need a 1" wilson tapered carb spacer... this suckers good for about 20 HP. (trust me I proved it on the dyno). as for your cam.... Comp cams part # 12-678-4 This is a solid flat tappet cam.. get the comp lifters to go with this. Gross valve lift on this is .520 intake with .540 exhaust. With a 110 lobe separation. Your going to want to get a set of 1.6 roller rockers. Valve springs are a comp 986-16. Run a high volume oil pump and a GOOD windage tray, moroso deep sump pan.... Headers... a small tube header is going to give you the torque numbers. Mine were a set of Hooker competitions. Full MSD billet ignition with a 6al box and blaster coil. A good set of Moroso race wires. Double roller timing set... and a good dampener. I ran an electric proform water pump with a Powermaster 100amp low mount drag race alternator. and.... your going to need a badass carb.... I built a proform from scratch but to get the serious numbers your going to want a quick fuel 750 cfm, with mechanical secondaries & annular boosters. http://www.dougherbert.com/750-cfm-37661.html
I GUARANTEE THIS COMBO!!! Again... message Josh and ask him about the motor that was in my Malibu he will tell ya.
I estimate you wont have more than about $3500-$4000 in this motor.. My best friend works at a Grand am/ rolex series engine shop hes the Head guy there... he did all of the work, calculations etc.... My intake was ported by a guy that works at DEI and he is known as.. "the intake guy".
So take your time... collect all the parts.... then when your ready... have it built. Yours being a 2 bolt you are going to want to have a 4 bolt splayed cap installed. If you have any questions message me and Ill toss you my phone number.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

I wouldnt take that combo to the track without a flak jacket not to romp on your setup or anything, but I wouldnt put a stock crank on a 400 or 350 past 450 hp a big cam and well flowing topend will make any engine make power

[MalibuKasey]

to each there own..... The key is you dont spin the stock crank hard.... They will live all day long and twice on Sunday as long as your not turning them 8K. I shifted at 6500.... never had a single problem.... and I drove the car everywhere with no issues.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by MalibuKasey

to each there own..... The key is you dont spin the stock crank hard.... They will live all day long and twice on Sunday as long as your not turning them 8K. I shifted at 6500.... never had a single problem.... and I drove the car everywhere with no issues.

imagine if the crank was forged and the valvtrain built for that rpm. that motor should hit some big numbers! lol. I love high rpm v8s

i think making a small block that can do bb powere levels is awsome all i think he needs are some vortech heads from scoggin dickey a cam that has a broad curve that will deliver 450 hp and a good dual plane and it should pull from idle to 5800 rather strongly. as i say a motor that pulls its power longer is better for the street