Frustrated: Talk me out of selling

[heeroyue2002]

someone take a trip to her place and give her a hand =]

[67Slider]

Originally Posted by HavinSomeFun

Jodie, I'm about 50 minutes down the road from you in Tallahassee. Glad to come over and take a look next weekend. PM me your number.

Very cool. The board members here are the best.

[Hubscrub]

please don't sell, we will figure this out. Maybe just pull the whole motor and put another in or a hand crank Seriously just let it sit and work on it when you can.

[GMCjunkie]

OK, Im taking "HavinSomeFun" up on his offer, hes going to try to come this weekend to help me figure out what the problem is. Ill keep yall updated!

[eightbanger]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

OK, Im taking "HavinSomeFun" up on his offer, hes going to try to come this weekend to help me figure out what the problem is. Ill keep yall updated!

This is good news, hopefully he will be able to get a handle this for ya...

Well done that man.

[special-K]

Don't get discouraged. You just need to find the right mechanic or some of us closer to you should come help you out. Just remember these things... There's nothing on these trucks that can't be fixed,any newer vehicle can put you in this situation over any number of things and this is just one oddball problem,at least you aren't also paying hundreds of dollars a month on car payments while it sits,and once fixed properly you will never see this problem again.

[treveiger]

Move up here an I can give you a hand I do wish I was closer though, someone told me you should be able to stick a thick paper clip end in the starter/flex plate teeth when their mated, that's the appropriate gap. There could be a crack in your block, that seems to be a problem with the older motors. Keep us informed.
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[bollybib]

[HavinSomeFun]

I'm going over Saturday morning and see what I can see.

[BMERDOC]

I'll help you by telling my story..I am a Master BMW mechanic. The only reason why I do this is because of HOT RODS!! By now I should have had a portfolio of unbelievable cars, mind melting cars..but I don't. Life got in my way. Now I'm 37 and just now feel cheated enough to get my own. I have worked on so many other peoples kick ass cars that I got fed up and turned off the lights, a/c and tv to be able to buy my own truck. I will admit I was on the hunt for either an air cooled VW or a 67-72 C10. My baby was the first to show its face. It hasn't been an easy road but I have my truck and it has a permanent home. I don't have money to throw at it but it is on the rode after a 13 year hiatus. Keep this in mind, its not the trucks fault. I know it can be disheartening but there are no such thing as problems...only situations and ever situation has a resolution. Don't let something like a starter bring you down. If you need to put a cover on it and come back to it then do so. Take a break and cool down, even if you have to wait till next spring. There is a reason for the problems you are having and it can be remedied. You've got a great bunch of people here that have got your back!!

[k5hart]

Sorry to hear your still having this problem! I understand your problem is frustrating and feel your pain. I've wanted and have gotten rid of stuff because of being sick of fighting. It's a hard decision. If you love the truck and have a place to store it then take some time off.

Now I'm not being Mr. negative and I'm sure most people are going to think I'm crazy again but remember my story about the mounting boss of a motor I had being cracked through the bolt hole. It was enough to let the starter move around when starting the truck but would close up enough that I couldn't see it when looking at it under the truck. It REALLY sounds like your fighting the same problem. Bad part about that is it will be really hard to diagnose and means the motor will have to come out to fix unless you can find an amazing old farm welder who can fix it under the truck (not likely and hard to believe I did). When HavinSomeFun is over have one of you watch the starter under the truck (safely!) while trying to start it. Maybe you can see it move, especially when it binds.

Good Luck!! I really hope you can get it fixed.

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

I cannot believe you are still having issues with the starter. Junk the OEM, get a mini-starter, and forget about it. I have used mini starters on both of my trucks....never had one single problem after that. They cost more, but they are worth it cause they work.

Funny I had nothing but trouble from one of the GMPP mini starters (hamburger rebox), nothing but pain and suffering. In fact my friend got so tried of hearing it he gave me a used cast iron nose starter off a big block.....problem gone and never to return.

Now I have used Tiltons with great success, but boy are they expensive.

Originally Posted by eightbanger

Oh yeah, if your flexplate has a weight welded to the outer edge then it's externally ballanced (see above pic) and that means 168 tooth count, if no weight then it has 153 tooth count.

WHAT????? Not so at all, there are internal and external balanced 168 tooth fly and flexplates. I know most of my vehicles have had 168 tooth flexplates (my 68 chevelle had a 152 but I changed to 168) and all with the exception of the 406 is internal balanced.

The block year is not relevant to the starter, because a 1971 and a 1976 will use the same number from the rebuiders. Check the mounting pad of the starter on the block to see if it is crack or repaired (blocks get dropped all the time in the starter mount) and see if it has actual starter bolts mounting the starter (no you can NOT use just any old 3/8 bolt for the starter).

Most of the current rebuilt starters out there have a offshore cast nose cone that was reversed engineered from a worn out 40 year old GM one, suprise the new is a POS. I know you had a GM Delco put on, but GM's delco division is a reboxer of Taiwan parts nowadays, for the older vehicles. I used to use only AC Delco points/coil/dist. cap/rotor, about 10 years ago Delco went to buying that stuff from Taiwan and it is crap. I use only old cast iron nose cone starters and get them rebuilt myself that way they always fit the block the same.

[BB72CHEVKT]

Having the same problem right now and I am going to sell the truck, but only because I bought a burb instead.

[big mike71]

I got mad at my 70 chevelle and sold it. I wish I had it back.

[HavinSomeFun]

I posted a WTB in the for sale section. However, figure I would ask here also. Anyone have a starter brace? I'm positive that is part of the issue and would like to have one to take with me saturday.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Havin somefun thanks for steppin up and going to look at her burb...

[JORGIE95961]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

I know I would regret it at some point, but I am SOOOOO frustrated with my truck. I had the on going issue with the starter and now it seems its a never ending issue. Its binding up again. The guy I sent it to, put an ACDelco starter on it and it started good (but never great) now its back to not starting at all. Ive had my truck back for over a year (after NOT having it for almost 3 while in the paint shop) and havent even put a hundred miles on it. Im afraid the fly wheel is chewed up from all the ill fitting starters thats been tried on it and with my new job, I dont have the time (or know how) to do anything with it, and I dont have the money to take it back to the mechanic. Im sick of paying insurance on a truck that wont even move out of its tracks. I know some of yall have been where I am. Encouragement or ideas please. Rant mode officially off.

nOW WAY DUDE DONT SELL IT!!!! THIS IDEA JUST POPPED IN MY HEAD ... WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU DO HAVE TIME YOU GO TO THE WRECKERS AND PULL A FLYWEEL AND STARTER OF TH SAME VEHICLE.... I MEAN IT WIONT BE NEW BUT YOU GET WHAT IM SAYING, THEYV ALREDY BEEN MATED

[72longbed]

The 153 tooth flexplate requires a starter with different length mounting bolts that are straight in line with each other. The 168 tooth flexplate requires a starter with the same length mounting bolts and they are staggered across from each other. You can simply look at the bolt pattern of your current starter and know what flexplate you have on that engine.

As some have said earlier, switch to a Hi-Torque starter and end your starter problems for good. Just buy the one that has the same mounting bolt pattern as what you have now (staggered or straight across) and DO use new STARTER bolts. New units usually come complete with new bolts.

Oh yeah .... your truck will sound very Cool when it starts too!!

72longbed

[HavinSomeFun]

Originally Posted by FRENCHBLUE72

Havin somefun thanks for steppin up and going to look at her burb...

We are all part of the brother/sister hood in these old hunks of iron. I've been helped more times than I can count.

[GMCjunkie]

Thanks everyone for your stories and comments of support and encouragement. I am hoping that we can get some enlightment when Kevin comes this weekend. If not, then I will pull the insurance, non-op it and wait til summer break to mess with it again.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

Funny I had nothing but trouble from one of the GMPP mini starters (hamburger rebox), nothing but pain and suffering. In fact my friend got so tried of hearing it he gave me a used cast iron nose starter off a big block.....problem gone and never to return.

Now I have used Tiltons with great success, but boy are they expensive.

I have never used a GMPP mini starter. I have only used Hitachi and Powermaster. Zero problems. I recommend Powermaster, their customer service and technical support is second to none.

[longhorn70gmc]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

Thanks everyone for your stories and comments of support and encouragement. I am hoping that we can get some enlightment when Kevin comes this weekend. If not, then I will pull the insurance, non-op it and wait til summer break to mess with it again.

Hang in there Lady, I have been restoring mine for 12 years now and am still not ready to re-register it yet and drive it. I went through this with my BB starter with my 402 in my Longhorn I am rebuilding and it took the brace and two shims to make a difference. I was having the same problems as you. I must of changed the starter 6 times before I figured it out. I hated it because everytime I had to remove the exhaust header and that was an added aggravation in itself. Stay loyal and dedicated Jodie and it will be a great truck for you yet. Plus, if you did get rid of it we would all miss you on here. I wish I was closer I would fix it for you too. Anyway, take care and good to talk to you again.
PS. I aquired my brace from the local Chevy dealer, they may still have it in their stock system and it comes with mounting harware.
R/

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

I have never used a GMPP mini starter. I have only used Hitachi and Powermaster. Zero problems. I recommend Powermaster, their customer service and technical support is second to none.

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

To each his own.

When something works like it is supposed to and gives me no problems, that makes it better in my book. I will never use an OEM starter again. If you like them and they work for you that's great. If I ever have a problem with my mini starter out in the middle of nowhere (and I doubt I will) I will call AAA

[k5hart]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

I have to say that I agree with a lot of this. Just didn't want to say anything to keep from starting an argument over mini starters vs. OEM. It really sounds to me there is another problem going on. She has tried too many starters, shims, wiring, etc. I would almost bet a mini starter would also have the same problem. This is coming from someone who is using a mini starter now. But because of headers and high compression.

Good point on checking the mounting pad. Junkie when you are under it next make sure it's clean and flat. Also try new bolts (which I think you did).