t5 question

[jocko]

WC, you got me to thinking - so I had to look it up in the service manual. Here's the book version of the answer (it is cut/pasted in via pdf, but the info is there):

Section 2
T5 WC & STD On- Vehicle Service and Troubleshooting
2-1. MAINTENANCE
2-2 GENERAL. The only periodic maintenance
required for the TREMEC T5 transmission is to
maintain proper lubrication.
2-3. LUBRICATION SCHEDULE. Refer to the
Vehicle Owner’s Manual or Service Manual.
CAUTION
Excessive temperatures may bread down the
transmission lubricant (refer to vehicle service
manual for maximum allowable temperature). If there
is reason to believe that the transmission has been
subjected to temperatures exceeding 275° F, change
the lubricant immediately.
2-4. APPROVED LUBRICANT. Most T5
transmission models use DexronÒ II automatic
transmission fluid. Refer the vehicle owner’s manual
or service manual for lubricant specifications.
CAUTION
Do not mix different bands or types of transmission
lubricant. DO NOT USE GEAR OIL IN THE T5
TRANSMISSION SINCE THIS MAY DAMAGE THE
BLOCKING RING MATERIAL.


So, while the service manual is referring to both STD and HD (i.e. their terminology for non-WC and WC) in this section, it does state "most" and to check the owner's manual.... So, it kinda leaves the door open until is states in all caps (that's how it is in the manual, I didn't all cap it for emphasis) to NOT USE GEAR OIL - and it's referring to both wc and non-wc..

Having said all that - I probably should have elaborated a bit in my earlier reply - the "book" answer is that both use ATF, unless directed otherwise. And I do know of several builders that use gear oil even in the WC's and swear by it. So, personally, I don't think there will be any harm done either way - but if it were my transmission, I'd stick with ATF.

Good discussion!

[jocko]

oops- meant to post this also - here's the T5 service manual, pretty helpful little book if anyone needs it.
jocko
http://www.ttcautomotive.com/English...ice_Manual.pdf

[wc63]

Originally Posted by hop sing

Good mornin can i get contact info for the t-5 info in phoniex i think that what u said ? thx HOP

look for the t5 guy in phoenix craigslist under auto parts. Wait...

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/pts/2942588705.html

there you go.

[wc63]

i had the same discussion with richard the t5 guy. there seems to be a lot of contradictory opinions. i figured i would use what he told to use (gear oil) and if theres any issues down the road my tranny guy cant say "you didnt do like i told you"
thanks for the link jocko. ill definitely be taking a look at that book.

[jocko]

you're welcome! And I agree - the gear oil recommendations seem to come from builders, so proababy pretty reputable (or drumming up business down the road ) But there are enough recommendations out there that it's probably not a bad thing to use gear oil in a wc or non-wc. Good to have a local trans guy you trust like t5 guy that stands behind his work!

[padresag]

you don't use 80-90wt though. you should use a lighter viscosity gear oil
ron

[wc63]

Has anyone ever put a t5 behind a gmc v6? I have taken my time in reading everything i can about the switch and have gathered all the pieces slowly, although there is not alot of info on swapping a t5 into a 305 v6.. Now that I am trying to put it together, it is fighting me every step of the way. I am finally at the stage of stabbing it in the engine and it just wont fit. Its got about a quarter to half inch to go. I took it out marked where the alignment tool ends up at the press plate fins, then measured the alignment tool with the input shaft and the fins should reach (or almost reach) the input shaft sleeve. When i go to stick the tranny in, it seems to bottom out with something, but am not quite sure what it is. The pilot bearing is oem, clutch is 26 spline, input shaft is 26 spline and the same diameter as the original 3 speed. Is there an alignment issue im missing? any help is appreciated.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by wc63

Has anyone ever put a t5 behind a gmc v6? I have taken my time in reading everything i can about the switch and have gathered all the pieces slowly, although there is not alot of info on swapping a t5 into a 305 v6.. Now that I am trying to put it together, it is fighting me every step of the way. I am finally at the stage of stabbing it in the engine and it just wont fit. Its got about a quarter to half inch to go. I took it out marked where the alignment tool ends up at the press plate fins, then measured the alignment tool with the input shaft and the fins should reach (or almost reach) the input shaft sleeve. When i go to stick the tranny in, it seems to bottom out with something, but am not quite sure what it is. The pilot bearing is oem, clutch is 26 spline, input shaft is 26 spline and the same diameter as the original 3 speed. Is there an alignment issue im missing? any help is appreciated.

which t5 are you installing? are you using the adaptor plate or modifying the input shaft.if it is the later you are perhaps running out of spline and have you shortened the trans frt bearing retainer that the t/o bearing rides on.
the spline on the input shaft needs to be lengthened a bit( I did mine with a file and also removed a little of the spline inside of the clutch disc.
there is actually quite a bit of info. a lot of it comes from the Hamb.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/t5tranny.htm
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=169265
http://www.inliners.org/Jack/t5_page.html
ron

[padresag]

Originally Posted by wc63

Has anyone ever put a t5 behind a gmc v6? I have taken my time in reading everything i can about the switch and have gathered all the pieces slowly, although there is not alot of info on swapping a t5 into a 305 v6.. Now that I am trying to put it together, it is fighting me every step of the way. I am finally at the stage of stabbing it in the engine and it just wont fit. Its got about a quarter to half inch to go. I took it out marked where the alignment tool ends up at the press plate fins, then measured the alignment tool with the input shaft and the fins should reach (or almost reach) the input shaft sleeve. When i go to stick the tranny in, it seems to bottom out with something, but am not quite sure what it is. The pilot bearing is oem, clutch is 26 spline, input shaft is 26 spline and the same diameter as the original 3 speed. Is there an alignment issue im missing? any help is appreciated.

what are you using for a clutch disc. you are using the orig clutch disc? I realize now that you must be using the wc camero t5 with the 26 spline
remember that if you upgraded the clutch disc with the 305 flywheel that you have to use the orig style clutch disc; you cannot substitute a chevy disc. it has to do with the way the hub is and this will be the only difference from mounting it behind a sbc chev.
ron

[wc63]

thanks for the links ron,
in regards to your questions:
i am using a camaro/firebird v8 t5, as i understood it, these transmissions dont need to be modified and you dont need an adapter because the input shaft is the same length as the old 3 speed.

i havent shortened the bearing retainer, but that does seem to be the issue. there is still space between the press plate and bearing retainer and i still haave about 1" of spline that i can see behind the press plate.

i dont understand what you mean about lengthening the spline on the input shaft. can you explain that?

the clutch im using, as i was told, is from a 90s pontiac. the guy at the clutch and brake place put my flywheel down then set he clutch disc over it to see if the hub would rub. there was a little bit of clearance, but he clutch disc didn have pads yet, so he said there would be plenty of clearance between the flywheel and clutch hub once he added the pads. seemed reasonable to me.

also, just to clarify, i am trying to mate a non wc v8 t5 to a gmc 305 v6. i want to avoid any confusion with the later 305 v8.
thanks for the help
adrian

[padresag]

there were a lot of info that you didn't inc orig so one tried to cover the bases.
on the earlier installations (s10 nwc) without using the adaptor one had to do some modifications to the input shaft, but this is not required with your assembly as far as i know.
just check the length of this input shaft against the length of the one you took out; just double check, there can only be several places that can give you a problem. pilot brg. is it all of the way in. there is not restricting behind it .double check the distance from the face of the brg to the outer face of the bell housing and the corresponding distance on the input shaft
the next point is length of spline and I don't know how you can see 1" of spline with the trans sitting in there. humour me here and measure again from the face of the pilot bushing to the trans side of the clutch disc and compare that to the length of spline to make sure that it is adequate. do the measure from the same point on the clutch disc to the face of the b/housing and compare that measure to the length of the input brg retainer and shaft right to the face of the trans.
when you have the trans sitting in there as far as it can go, do you have clearance between the pressure plate and the t/o brg( there are different lengths of brgs). check the dia, of the input brg retainer to the dia of the hole in the bell housing. if all of those check it should go in. Sometimes we get tired and frustrated when these types of things happen and we oversee what the problem is.
you didn't say what pressure plate and t/o that you were using, but if it (problem ) still prevails, put the orig clutch,p/plate and t/o brg in there--- there should be no reason why that trans won't go in there if the trans spline is the same
there are only so many so many contact points that can cause a problem and they are all covered except for one and that is if there is a problem with the splines in either the c/disc or input shaft (damaged)
ron

[wc63]

Thanks ron for the response.
I am using the original press plate. the through out bearing is replaced but original as well. My bell housing has a dust cover in the bottom which i removed, and i can see the press plate and the back half of the input shaft. thats how i can see the 1'' left of spline.I have read other posts and people seem to have a hard time getting them in there. other people have no problem at all. my case is obvious. my brother recommended taking it all apart and installing the press plate, clutch and flywheel on the trans while its out to make sure it all fits. then attempt to reinstall it again. your right. it is frustrating.

[padresag]

if you only have 1/4" to go your in the pilot brg. you may be binding a bit from leaving the weight of the trans resting on it. if you have it in there and the clutch linkage hooked up, get some one to step on the clutch and push the tranny in. it will release that tension if there is any. sometimes that works.
ron

[wc63]

i dont have the clutch hooked up. i have the fork and the slave cylinder installed but disconected the spring to keep tension off of the press plate. i can wiggle the fork any way i want but it seems likes it bottoming out somewhere. i assume it can only be the input shaft hitting the pilot bearing or crank. otherwise, it may be an issue with the splines. however, i dont think i would be able to reach the point that it does if it were a spline issue.

[jocko]

sounds frustrating wc - here's a question for the crowd since I'm a gmc v6 novice...

Does the same manual trans that wc is replacing that was hooked up to the original v6 also bolt directly to a sbc?

I'm not sure the v6 and sbc v8 are common animals when it comes to this stuff. BUT, for what it's worth - when I installed mine, I had the same problem (keep in mind, I had the spacer because I had an S10 T5) - about 1/8-1/4" of feeling like "it's SOooo close but feels like it's bottoming out". Now, having said that - with the spacer, I knew I had slightly less pilot shaft engagement in the bushing - and after significant wiggling, it finally popped right in.

Again, not sure the logic of "it doesn't need a spacer if it's a Camaro T5" applies when talkin GMC v6 - that logic technically is only applicable to a sbc.

So, along the same lines as padre is getting at -

- How did the overall dimension of (trans front face -to- tip of pilot bearing) compare?
If the same or shorter, then it's not the pilot shaft causing the problem
- As important - what is the comparison of (trans front face -to- end of the splines on the input shaft)? See b) below.

- How "thick" does the combo of (pressure plate + release bearing) compare between original and current setup?
If the same, then ok. If not, then may or may not be your issue.
- After all that - the only think I can thin of is one of the following (even though some have been discussed above):

a) when everything put together, the clutch splines are bottoming out on the trans input shaft splines before the trans can mate to the bell.
b) it's possible that even if the pilot shaft isn't bottoming out in the bushing that the shoulder where the splines begin are bottoming out on the crank. The measurement noted abvoe will help clarify that.
c) sometimes on custom clutch disks, the "this side toward engine" wording gets removed.... Is it possible the cluthc disk is in backwards? But I don't think that would keep the trans from mating to the bell - but not sure with a v6.

Wish I could be more help. How much time have you spent with a bit wigglin the turd around trying to get it to seat? For some reason, it took me quite a while. About 2 straight hours of frustration.

Be careful manhandling it because it can be easy to crack a mounting ear off the aluminum case trans. Hope it gest sorted out wc.

[padresag]

it doesn't put any tension on the pressure plate, because the t/o should be clear odf nthe pressure plate( a little free play)
like I said above if you only have a 1/4" to go the pilot shaft is in the the pilot bearing. it is essential that you check those measurements that I mentioned above as it will remove any doubt that everything is correct. if it is all correct hook up your linkage and have some one depress the pedal and give the trans a little push. I have seen this happen before
either you have a problem or you don't
ron

[wc63]

finally got it fit. i took down the p/plate and clutch disk and mated the trans to the bell housing and just to see if it fit and it did. so my brother and i reinstalled the clutch and p/plate and torqued them down and again, the same issue, trans would fit all the way in. it still had about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of gap between the trans and bell housing. since the dust cover allows us to see most of whats going on, we loosened the p/plate again with everything still mounted, wiggled the trans a bit and it slipped right in. the alignment tool somehow wasnt aligning the clutch and pilot bearing correctly. it almost seemed too easy. dont know why we didnt think of it the first time. still have some buttoning up to do (like finding bolts for the crossmember and the bottom of the trans and finding a long enough speedo gear) but glad to see this part is over. thanks to everyone who chimed in. your help is appreciated.




Adrian
Mesa,Az.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

I miked the pilot shaft on one of those plastic alignment tools. It was .007 " undersize. I use an old trans shaft to line it up when available.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by wc63

finally got it fit. i took down the p/plate and clutch disk and mated the trans to the bell housing and just to see if it fit and it did. so my brother and i reinstalled the clutch and p/plate and torqued them down and again, the same issue, trans would fit all the way in. it still had about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of gap between the trans and bell housing. since the dust cover allows us to see most of whats going on, we loosened the p/plate again with everything still mounted, wiggled the trans a bit and it slipped right in. the alignment tool somehow wasnt aligning the clutch and pilot bearing correctly. it almost seemed too easy. dont know why we didnt think of it the first time. still have some buttoning up to do (like finding bolts for the crossmember and the bottom of the trans and finding a long enough speedo gear) but glad to see this part is over. thanks to everyone who chimed in. your help is appreciated.







Adrian
Mesa,Az.

that would have been the same as hooking up the clutch linkage and haveing someone depressing the peddle and in it goes
ron

[wc63]

i guess your right padre. didnt want to think about messing with the clutch though. still have to adjust it

[jocko]

good news! Glad it wasn't something wrong, just the usual pain in the butt to get it in. Looking fwd to hearing how well you like it once you get it on the road!

[wc63]

slow progress but almost there. i figured id change the gear oil on the rear end along with the gasket since it has a slow leak. im not exactly sure what rear end i have but its the original one that came with the 3 speed. what type of gear oil is recommended. im assuming the same as the trans 75w90?