Cant bleed brakes

[HEI451]

The above post is why I always leave the master off its mount, tilted with the push rod aimed upwards at about a 40 degree angle, and bleed the master, on the vehicle. When the master is tilted this way, front end down, rear end up, the bleed port(s) in each chamber are at their highest, and since air rises in a liquid, gently pushing the push rod and piston(s) into the master, bleeds the air out of the master, allowing the pressure buildup to occur to bleed the rest of the system.

A note on "bleeding" Dot 5 brake fluids. Dot 5 HOLDS air bubbles somewhat well over the other 'Dot' brake fluids. When we tried to bleed the systems we used the Dot 5 in, we got mediocre results to no brakes at all. We found that when the fluid was pressurized in the master, it caught and held air bubbles, and they stayed in suspension for hours in the rest of the system. We found that simply pouring the fluid into the master, very slowly, so NOT to agitate it and capture any air, the fluid stayed fluid, and not aerated. We then simply opened the caliper bleed, and let the system gravity bleed into a CLEAN, clear canister and hose. This worked the best of any bleed tech on the Dot 5 brake fluids, every other method just didn't work.

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by shawno72

Take it to Midas. They should have to correct cap for their pressure bleeder.

like shawn told me you can pump the MC and crack the lines open on the MC to let the rest of the air out..


i just did my disc conversion and im also having issue bleeding my brakes. so.. im watching this thread closely

[HEI451]

If you were closer to Yerington, I'd come and help. I used to live in Merced many years ago.

[Sick5]

Never heard of yerington
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[krazy_texan]

im gonna take it to midas soon just cause the weather is getting worse and my schedule dont allow me much time to work on it as i have other things to attend to ofter. Plusi dont have a garage. i am going to have them put exhaust pipes on it while its there as well so i get all that done

[blackedoutharley]

Its like Merced but located in Nevada instead, LOL!

[Sick5]

THANKS Shawn i got my brakes bleed finaly...
MC needed to bleed more now

[absintheisfun]

Originally Posted by Sick5

like shawn told me you can pump the MC and crack the lines open on the MC to let the rest of the air out..

I would most definitely NOT recommend this! When the plunger is pushed (apply the brakes) it pushes out whatever is in the reservoir. When the plunger is returned, it pulls whatever is in the lines. If there are no lines or cracked lines, the master will suck back in air!

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by absintheisfun

I would most definitely NOT recommend this! When the plunger is pushed (apply the brakes) it pushes out whatever is in the reservoir. When the plunger is returned, it pulls whatever is in the lines. If there are no lines or cracked lines, the master will suck back in air!

Let me redo what I said make a Lil more understanding
You can bleed your master cylinder by
1. Pumping your brakes till it get really firm or hard then hold down on the brakes
2. While holding have a friend open the line in the master cylinder slowly letting the fluid and air leak out
3 continue with both side till all air bubbles are gone!
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[HEI451]

Some people just don't listen, do they. The bleed port for each chamber in the master IS the last port to the rear of each chamber, and should be placed at the HIGHEST point when the brake master is bled, with the system CLOSED, no bleed ports open, no lines "cracked". This IS the reason the master should be tilted with its front down, rear UP.

If you were to look into the reservoir when doing this extre,ely simple operation, you would see the air in the master come right up and out the bleed port, bleeding the master.

Simple as all that, not hard, easy to understand.

Yerington is 85 miles south east of Reno, 2,800 people in the town, 6,500 or so in the Mason and Smith Valleys, and I came here to get as far away from those who crack the lines when they bleed master cylinders, as I possibly could. Much different, and much nicer than the greater Los Angeles nightmare I moved here from.

[bigblok77]

bench bleed the master, next pull a vacuum on the furthest wheel cylinderaway from the MC until you have fluid escaping there, then move to second farthest distance(LR wheel), and so on, and so forth.
and then next step bleed both chambers of the MC (front and rear) like you would the brakes themself,

pump it up, barely open ONE line at the MC until you get just fluid and very little to no bubbles then transfer to the other.

best way is a gravity bleed to start with. but If the lines are dry then this method wont work, you have to have "some" pressure,
and also with dry lines there is nothing to create a vacuum to help draw fluid out, which in turn you need a vacuum bleeder as mentioned earlier to get fluid moving.

sometimes I have to use this bleed method (not very often only when replacing the just MC themselves) but I would give it a try.

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by HEI451

Some people just don't listen, do they. The bleed port for each chamber in the master IS the last port to the rear of each chamber, and should be placed at the HIGHEST point when the brake master is bled, with the system CLOSED, no bleed ports open, no lines "cracked". This IS the reason the master should be tilted with its front down, rear UP.

If you were to look into the reservoir when doing this extre,ely simple operation, you would see the air in the master come right up and out the bleed port, bleeding the master.

Simple as all that, not hard, easy to understand.

Yerington is 85 miles south east of Reno, 2,800 people in the town, 6,500 or so in the Mason and Smith Valleys, and I came here to get as far away from those who crack the lines when they bleed master cylinders, as I possibly could. Much different, and much nicer than the greater Los Angeles nightmare I moved here from.

Lol wow
Posted via Mobile Device

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by HEI451

Some people just don't listen, do they. The bleed port for each chamber in the master IS the last port to the rear of each chamber, and should be placed at the HIGHEST point when the brake master is bled, with the system CLOSED, no bleed ports open, no lines "cracked". This IS the reason the master should be tilted with its front down, rear UP.

If you were to look into the reservoir when doing this extre,ely simple operation, you would see the air in the master come right up and out the bleed port, bleeding the master.

Simple as all that, not hard, easy to understand.

Yerington is 85 miles south east of Reno, 2,800 people in the town, 6,500 or so in the Mason and Smith Valleys, and I came here to get as far away from those who crack the lines when they bleed master cylinders, as I possibly could. Much different, and much nicer than the greater Los Angeles nightmare I moved here from.

not to everyone is that simple... lol

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by bigblok77

bench bleed the master, next pull a vacuum on the furthest wheel cylinderaway from the MC until you have fluid escaping there, then move to second farthest distance(LR wheel), and so on, and so forth.
and then next step bleed both chambers of the MC (front and rear) like you would the brakes themself,

pump it up, barely open ONE line at the MC until you get just fluid and very little to no bubbles then transfer to the other.

best way is a gravity bleed to start with. but If the lines are dry then this method wont work, you have to have "some" pressure,
and also with dry lines there is nothing to create a vacuum to help draw fluid out, which in turn you need a vacuum bleeder as mentioned earlier to get fluid moving.

sometimes I have to use this bleed method (not very often only when replacing the just MC themselves) but I would give it a try.

How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok
Posted via Mobile Device

[krazy_texan]

i wonder if i had enough line to do it if i could start the truck up and use a vacuume off of the engine to bleed my brakes. Just a thought i might try it this next weekend.

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by Sick5

How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok
Posted via Mobile Device

I'm not sure I understand the question. With what lines closed, If there is no fluid in the lines, you will have to use a vacuum to suck it through at the bleeder, being the best way I know possible. Then go through the bleed process.

Wes

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by krazy_texan

i wonder if i had enough line to do it if i could start the truck up and use a vacuume off of the engine to bleed my brakes. Just a thought i might try it this next weekend.

the engines 19 or so in/lbs of vacuum might be too, much but if it is a last resort just be careful not to let any get sucked into the line, brake fluid isnt combustible... lol

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by Sick5

How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok
Posted via Mobile Device

also doing it on an unlevel surface can affect it also, you want the front to be just slightly higher than the rear not too much. as long as no air can get to the bottom of the MC where fluid is distributed, you will be able to get fluid moving. but i would advise doing it again on a decently level surface.

hope this helps

wes

[Fastrucken]

Originally Posted by krazy_texan

i wonder if i had enough line to do it if i could start the truck up and use a vacuume off of the engine to bleed my brakes. Just a thought i might try it this next weekend.

This is a sweet Idea!!!!!!!!!! Just make a resivior so you cant suck the brake fluid in to the engine.

[HEI451]

"How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok"

YES, exactly the same way I outlined it, see, not so hard to understand after all.

"Bench bleeding" only makes a mess, as when you take the lines for bleeding off, the fluid in the chambers leaks out the 0outlet ports, and, that allows AIR to re-enter the chambers, requiring the master to be angled and bled when you get it back on the truck, with the lines tight.

Wow, I like it when people pay attention to common sense, like bleeding the master ON THE VEHICLE, and not to a bunch of hooey, like bench bleeding off the truck.

Sorry if I sound a bit totalitarian, but I have been through all this, numerous times, and KNOW what works, and what doesn't. I get to fix what others around here mess up, and there are a LOT of people here that also don't listen to common sense, and make it a lot harder for people like me to fix the issues that existed in the first place, AND the extra stuff others create by doing it wrong.

Sick5, try it my way, please, remove the master cylinder off the firewall, or booster, with the lines in place and tight, and angle it with the front end down, and use a Philips point screwdriver in place of the push rod, and gently push the piston in, then let it ut, do this until you get all the bubbles out of the ports in the reservoir. You can leave the top off the master, so you can see the air bubbles come out, might be good if you had an assistant to hold the master in this process.

When you get all the air out of the master, then, go bleed the individual cylinders and calipers.

Humor me, I KNOW this method works when others don't.

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by Fastrucken

This is a sweet Idea!!!!!!!!!! Just make a resivior so you cant suck the brake fluid in to the engine.

lol

[Sick5]

Originally Posted by HEI451

"How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok"

YES, exactly the same way I outlined it, see, not so hard to understand after all.

"Bench bleeding" only makes a mess, as when you take the lines for bleeding off, the fluid in the chambers leaks out the 0outlet ports, and, that allows AIR to re-enter the chambers, requiring the master to be angled and bled when you get it back on the truck, with the lines tight.

Wow, I like it when people pay attention to common sense, like bleeding the master ON THE VEHICLE, and not to a bunch of hooey, like bench bleeding off the truck.

Sorry if I sound a bit totalitarian, but I have been through all this, numerous times, and KNOW what works, and what doesn't. I get to fix what others around here mess up, and there are a LOT of people here that also don't listen to common sense, and make it a lot harder for people like me to fix the issues that existed in the first place, AND the extra stuff others create by doing it wrong.

Sick5, try it my way, please, remove the master cylinder off the firewall, or booster, with the lines in place and tight, and angle it with the front end down, and use a Philips point screwdriver in place of the push rod, and gently push the piston in, then let it ut, do this until you get all the bubbles out of the ports in the reservoir. You can leave the top off the master, so you can see the air bubbles come out, might be good if you had an assistant to hold the master in this process.

When you get all the air out of the master, then, go bleed the individual cylinders and calipers.

Humor me, I KNOW this method works when others don't.

IM done!!
my truck is now stoping on a dime

thanks

[bigblok77]

Originally Posted by HEI451

"How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok"

YES, exactly the same way I outlined it, see, not so hard to understand after all.

"Bench bleeding" only makes a mess, as when you take the lines for bleeding off, the fluid in the chambers leaks out the 0outlet ports, and, that allows AIR to re-enter the chambers, requiring the master to be angled and bled when you get it back on the truck, with the lines tight.

Wow, I like it when people pay attention to common sense, like bleeding the master ON THE VEHICLE, and not to a bunch of hooey, like bench bleeding off the truck.

Sorry if I sound a bit totalitarian, but I have been through all this, numerous times, and KNOW what works, and what doesn't. I get to fix what others around here mess up, and there are a LOT of people here that also don't listen to common sense, and make it a lot harder for people like me to fix the issues that existed in the first place, AND the extra stuff others create by doing it wrong.

Sick5, try it my way, please, remove the master cylinder off the firewall, or booster, with the lines in place and tight, and angle it with the front end down, and use a Philips point screwdriver in place of the push rod, and gently push the piston in, then let it ut, do this until you get all the bubbles out of the ports in the reservoir. You can leave the top off the master, so you can see the air bubbles come out, might be good if you had an assistant to hold the master in this process.

When you get all the air out of the master, then, go bleed the individual cylinders and calipers.

Humor me, I KNOW this method works when others don't.

I have done my way(and yours) many times as well. I just prefer to pull fluid through (vacuum) and then let gravity do the rest, until ready to do the normal bleed sequence. so please dont act a fool just because other people suggest another way of doing it... when these people too have done it their way many times...

/end rant

[padresag]

Originally Posted by HEI451

"How about doing it in the driveway at an angle. With the lines closed. Would that be ok"

YES, exactly the same way I outlined it, see, not so hard to understand after all.

"Bench bleeding" only makes a mess, as when you take the lines for bleeding off, the fluid in the chambers leaks out the 0outlet ports, and, that allows AIR to re-enter the chambers, requiring the master to be angled and bled when you get it back on the truck, with the lines tight.

Wow, I like it when people pay attention to common sense, like bleeding the master ON THE VEHICLE, and not to a bunch of hooey, like bench bleeding off the truck.

Sorry if I sound a bit totalitarian, but I have been through all this, numerous times, and KNOW what works, and what doesn't. I get to fix what others around here mess up, and there are a LOT of people here that also don't listen to common sense, and make it a lot harder for people like me to fix the issues that existed in the first place, AND the extra stuff others create by doing it wrong.

Sick5, try it my way, please, remove the master cylinder off the firewall, or booster, with the lines in place and tight, and angle it with the front end down, and use a Philips point screwdriver in place of the push rod, and gently push the piston in, then let it ut, do this until you get all the bubbles out of the ports in the reservoir. You can leave the top off the master, so you can see the air bubbles come out, might be good if you had an assistant to hold the master in this process.

When you get all the air out of the master, then, go bleed the individual cylinders and calipers.

Humor me, I KNOW this method works when others don't.

I wonder if you are this way in real life to
ron

[krazy_texan]

well if i was to try and use my little engine vacuum idea i would have a bottle hooked inline just like you do on a hand pump just the engine would be the pump but with the engine doing the work it would save a hand cramp.