The case of the mysterious clutch. (71 C10)

[jowwel]

Hi Everyone, I have a problematic update for you.

I replaced the clutch and ran the truck without a problem for about a week. Now, it won't start. There is a very odd noise being produced by the starter. I uploaded a video of it to youtube so you can listen to it first hand and get some more background info. I don't know why the audio got screwy and is off a little bit, but you can still hear everything fine. Here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7j5K-UkCNc

My suspicion is that the flywheel is just too damn close to the starter housing, but if you've followed this thread from the beginning, you'll know that I am a beginner and my suspicions are as helpful as dirt in a dessert. Any help you can give me would be terrific.

Thanks

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by jowwel

My suspicion is that the flywheel is just too damn close to the starter housing, but if you've followed this thread from the beginning, you'll know that I am a beginner and my suspicions are as helpful as dirt in a dessert. Any help you can give me would be terrific.

Thanks

Also, one other change worth noting. I ended up replacing the water pump entirely. When I got everything back on, the truck wouldn't start right away and was making the same noise. Important note: this was after we had started it without any problem once I was done with the clutch installation. It started right up and ran fine. This noise didn't start until after the water pump change.

I couldn't figure out why changing the water pump would have any bearing on this whatsoever, but just for the sake of it, I loosened up the timing belt. As soon as I did this, it started right up. I thought all was well, but from then on is started making the noise intermittently. I don't know if that helps, but I forgot to include it earlier!

[webfoot]

Got any shims between the starter and the engine block?

Quite the beardsmith, nice work!

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by webfoot

Got any shims between the starter and the engine block?

No. Another friend just mentioned that as well. I think it will be might be the next thing to check out. The thing that I'm thinking though is that when I got the flywheel ground down, the machine shop guy told me that they "took a lot off cause it was pretty bad". Being new, it's hard to conceptualize, but I think that I need to get closer to the flywheel teeth, not further away (which is what I would assume shims would do for me.) Thoughts?

Originally Posted by webfoot

Quite the beardsmith, nice work!

Thank you Sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar!

[webfoot]

Not 100% positive as I've never tried it but I'd think if you shimmed only the outer bolt it should bring the starter gear closer to the flywheel. Have you got under the truck and seen/watched how close the starter gear is to the flywheel?

I put a new starter on and with no shims it has never given me fits.

[Lower]

You need to pull the inspection plate off and see if there are any teeth left on the starter and or flywheel. Machining the flywheel surface will have no effect on the teeth on the outside of the flywheel. Either the starter is shimmed wrong or there are no teeth left on it. When you had the flywheel off did the teeth look chewed up or did they look to be in good shape?

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by webfoot

Not 100% positive as I've never tried it but I'd think if you shimmed only the outer bolt it should bring the starter gear closer to the flywheel. Have you got under the truck and seen/watched how close the starter gear is to the flywheel?

I put a new starter on and with no shims it has never given me fits.

Problem solved. I feel a little foolish because I posted before looking under the truck for the problem. Hey, its been cold outside! The metal guard plate between the engine and the flywheel (that collars up around the main shaft) had gotten grabbed by the flywheel and bent/wedged up against it and the engine. I took it out and will try to bend it back into place. It seems like a weird part to try and order. I'll have to check the chilton to see if it has a name...

[Lower]

Normally the shims will pull the starter farther away from the flywheel because its too tight and making the starter drag

[Lower]

Originally Posted by jowwel

Problem solved. I feel a little foolish because I posted before looking under the truck for the problem. Hey, its been cold outside! The metal guard plate between the engine and the flywheel (that collars up around the main shaft) had gotten grabbed by the flywheel and bent/wedged up against it and the engine. I took it out and will try to bend it back into place. It seems like a weird part to try and order. I'll have to check the chilton to see if it has a name...

Should be called the inspection plate. Was it bent into the starter keeping it from engaging?

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by Lower

Should be called the inspection plate. Was it bent into the starter keeping it from engaging?

No. Actually, to be embarrassingly honest, it was mangled when I took it out the first time. When I went to put it back in, it wouldn't fit properly because it was bent just enough to be an awkward fit. I figured that when bolted down, it wouldn't matter. Unfortunately, the way that the starter sandwiches it to the bell housing made it impossible to get the bolts in on the far side of the bell housing (it was hanging down just a little too far and wouldn't move any farther up to get screwed in). So I never bolted it on over there. Beginner mistake I guess, but that thing would not move for me and I figured that it was set pretty good. I was wrong.

It must have just gotten grabbed at some point and pulled in towards the mainshaft and crumpled up in there. Anyway, long story short, not bent to keep the starter from engaging, rather, it was bent/crumpled like a tight collar around the main shaft and sort of stemmed/wedged between the flywheel and the engine.

Lesson = Learned.

[crazy longhorn]

What I have learned the hard way(its been a bunch)...has allways been mine to keep crazyL

[treveiger]

I got a napa clutch this summer an replaced my old one. It works awesome! I paid around 140. Make sure to get your flywheel resurfaced before putting it back together.
Posted via Mobile Device

[treveiger]

Originally Posted by camrycurt

If you get some good tips or figure it out on your own, I'd be interested in hearing what you end up doing to get everything back together. I'm not as mechanically inclined as you are and think I'll be needing to replace my clutch soon as well.

I replaced mine this summer, do you have any specific questions?
Posted via Mobile Device

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by Lower

Should be called the inspection plate.

Would this be an adequate replacement part?

http://www.drivewire.com/vehicle/197...lywheel-cover/

[Lower]

I dont know for sure, would have to look at mine and see. Its a monsoon here right now so i dont feel like crawlin around in the mud lol

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by Lower

I dont know for sure, would have to look at mine and see. Its a monsoon here right now so i dont feel like crawlin around in the mud lol

Ah, c'mon. Take one for the team! lol.

[passthebuck]

Sounds like the starter is either too far or too close to the flex plate, the flex plate is out of round, the flex plate is thrashed, the bendix could be thrashed, the bushing in the starter nose could be worn or the engagement lever is worn.

Does it happen intermittently or every time? How does the flex plate and bendix look? Is there lots of play in the front starter bushing? Does the bendix come all the way out when you hit the key or just part way?

[jowwel]

Originally Posted by passthebuck

Sounds like the starter is either too far or too close to the flex plate, the flex plate is out of round, the flex plate is thrashed, the bendix could be thrashed, the bushing in the starter nose could be worn or the engagement lever is worn.

Does it happen intermittently or every time? How does the flex plate and bendix look? Is there lots of play in the front starter bushing? Does the bendix come all the way out when you hit the key or just part way?

Update: Problem solved. I feel a little foolish because I posted before looking under the truck for the problem. Hey, its been cold outside! The metal guard plate between the engine and the flywheel (that collars up around the main shaft) had gotten grabbed by the flywheel and bent/wedged up against it and the engine.