White Smoke coming out Right Bank...Need some help Please!

[GASoline71]

Yup... that's either a cracked head or a blown head gasket.

Careful runnin' that engine. You don't want to hydro-lock a cylinder.

Gary

[Mr-Jack]

crap...LOL...i knew it was going to be fun...guess when i yank the motor, i might as well place it in the right mounting position on the frame...the person that put the motor in, placed it in the v6 position...hence the firewall being beat all to hell so they could clearance the distributor.

I know that there are some head gasket sealers that you can add to the motor for a temp fix, but what are the long term affects of these, and are there any worth using? I just need to be able to safely drive this truck to the new property (i'm having a house built and it will be done in a few weeks...new place has a shop...right now i'm working in a car port until my house is built).

Also i'm guessing that a long term affect of driving the truck with a coolant leak can lead to a cracked head, so Like i said...i just wanna be able to get it to the new place to either tear it down and rebuild it, or figure out if it's crate motor time

[GASoline71]

There is no bandaid fix for a blown gasket. Also a long term affect is what I mentioned earlier. Run it long enough to get water in a cylinder and hydro-lock the engine. Then it'll be a bent connecting rod or worse.

The heads need to be pulled and magnafluxed as well... just to be sure...

Gary

[Mr-Jack]

yeah...I know...and I really am not the type to mask a problem, cause I'm not building this for anyone except myself...and i want a sound motor and don't want to have to do all the machining and work later. I don't mind doing a head gasket, just don't want to have to pull the top off the motor out in the elements. Hence why i wanted to wait til i got to the new house.

I guess i can tow it up there on a trailer, just trying to figure out if there is another way around it. I have a 3 day weekend coming up so I might have the time and resources to replace the head gasket, but not sure what magna fluxing is? I would hate to pull the top off just to find out it's worse, but either way i'd rather know so i can prepare.

How long does a head gasket change take. I know i'll have to pull the top off. and it is lifted now, so it works with and against me LOL. more clearance to work, just more back pain.

[fastwillie 696969]

Originally Posted by 68gmsee

More than likely if it's whitish smoke it's coolant. It may be a small head gasket leak, intake gasket leak or worse a cracked head. The antifreeze in the coolant makes a lot of smoke so keep monitoring the fluid level.

I have also seen whitish smoke from additives and when a buddy poured transmission fluid into his carb it was sort of grayish, so keep that in mind also.

concur coolant or water bypass gasket

[68gmsee]

Back in my younger days when I was mostly broke, I would try these magical additives that claimed to fix anything from leaking radiators to leaking head gaskets. Problem is I never had one that worked for very long, if at all. Also, if you use too much of those stop leak sealants you may wind up replacing the radiator.

Re. the elements: One good thing about these trucks is the high hood. I once saw where someone had rigged a lean-to with 2x4's and a tarp over the hood. A neighbor bought a beach/lake tarp that he sets up when he works on his truck.

If in fact it is a head gasket leak you should be able to do the work in one day. Just get all the tools, gaskets, antifreeze and sealant before you start.

[Mr-Jack]

so other than a torque wrench, what kind of special tools would i need? also, what hardware and other gaskets should i have to purchase. i would of course get a new head gasket...i would use gasket maker probably for the intake, and probably leave the carb attached to the intake, cause i'm trying to do this as fast as possible.

Also, i'd probably be picking up a head gasket from the local parts store...any brand proven to be better than others?

And do I need to replace the head bolts? I read somewhere that some head bolts are a one time use, whereas some bolts can be reused.

Thanks for all the help fellas...I do have a car port, and would probably do all this under it, if i can do it soon.

Jack

[storm9c1]

First, do not try to add snake oil products to the engine to seal the leak. All you will do is clog the radiator and heater core. Been there, done that, makes a mess of things internally. The only case where it might be justified is if you are planning on getting rid of the engine soon.

So I agree, fix it right.

I suggest getting intake and exhaust manifold gaskets as well. Definitely don't reuse your existing intake gaskets, it could be part of the problem. Look at the heads very closely once they are off. Look for any cracks. Also look at the head gasket for signs of failure, which would explain your problem.

There are a multitude of head gaskets available. Some swear by some brands over others. If I am in a hurry, I just use Felpro stuff. Their "High Perf" line is higher quality, and for a head gasket, that's a good idea. However, when I do head gaskets, I usually pay a little extra and get a gasket set/kit which will include the intake, exhaust, valve cover gaskets, etc. It's worth it to have everything you need and perhaps a few spare gaskets that you don't need.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Mr-Jack

so other than a torque wrench, what kind of special tools would i need? also, what hardware and other gaskets should i have to purchase. i would of course get a new head gasket...i would use gasket maker probably for the intake, and probably leave the carb attached to the intake, cause i'm trying to do this as fast as possible.

Also, i'd probably be picking up a head gasket from the local parts store...any brand proven to be better than others?

And do I need to replace the head bolts? I read somewhere that some head bolts are a one time use, whereas some bolts can be reused.

Thanks for all the help fellas...I do have a car port, and would probably do all this under it, if i can do it soon.

Jack

A standard set of tools is needed. I have 1/2 inch and 3/8ths but mostly use the 3/8ths set. The torque wrench is a definite and a breaker bar, if you need one, would help. I use the 3/8 ratchet and six inch extension for intake bolts and in some of the middle bolts a 9/16th swivel socket. Be sure and take pics, bag and label all parts, line up the push rods in a section of cardboard with holes and numbers to indicate location. Also, bag and label the bolts as to where they came out of as you remove them. And, label all hoses and connections. You'd be surpised how easy it is to forget where a particular bolt goes even after a few hours.

I've reused the head bolts with the Felpro head gasket and never had any problems. It's your choice.

Having a buddy help would be good. I have sat inside the engine compartment when I've done work on the engine in the truck before, but having someone to hand the intake and heads to is helpful.

Forgot... mark the distributor base to block so it can be reinserted properly and don't rotate the engine after removal if you can help.

[C-10 simplex]

On a related note, let's say it is a cracked head----what would cause a cracked head?

[Mr-Jack]

I have done some minor engine work, just been a super long time...i'm talkin high school days LOL...I can tear apart a jet engine, but still for some reason, hesitate when it comes to my own. I'm not squirmish around it, just the way i've been. Like i said. I think this weekend i'll be able to get down and dirty.

Thanks for all the information guys. Maybe i'll have a buddy from work come give me a hand...my 8 month pregnant wife probably shouldn't be expected to help. Maybe i'll take this time to throw in an HEI dizzy as well.

I'll update once i've got it done.

Jack

[storm9c1]

Originally Posted by C-10 simplex

On a related note, let's say it is a cracked head----what would cause a cracked head?

Any cast metal (which heads are often made from, whether it be aluminum or iron) can crack. Many things can contribute: such as a casting flaw, fatigue from extended use, an overheat condition, water freezing in the block, over advanced timing causing too much pinging, retarded timing or lean conditions causing hot combustion, and the list goes on........ It's relatively rare, but given the fact that this forum has thousands of members, there is bound to be a few cases. I don't jump on the "cracked head" band wagon unless I have reason to believe it, such as a reported overheat condition. That is probably the most common way to crack heads.

I ALWAYS suspect bad heads when buying them used -- this is the case when you must be paranoid because there might be a good reason someone is selling "ran when pulled" Vortec heads for $100................ Chances are they ain't worth more than scrap. It never hurts to have a machine shop check them out. Most shops only charge a nominal fee to look for cracks. To be ultra sure, have them magnafluxed.

[Gumby]

^ used heads where you don't have a recourse like using paypal or a CC for a reversal is a suckers bet.

Any guy with a good set of heads, will have a friend want to buy them.

Just like dirt bikes n such, if its really in good shape and for a deal, a friend would of taken it first.

[Mr-Jack]

I'll be posting up a bunch of pictures when i pull the heads off this weekend. I had to move the truck into the carport tonight to get it ready for the weekend. sputtered a bit and died a few times...starting to smoke a lot faster now after start up...not sure if this is just a head gasket or not, but doesn't wanna run too strong right now. and it has gas and good fuel pressure. not sure i got it tuned 100% but smelled like it was running super rich to me while i backed thru the cloud of smoke tonight. didn't run it for more than about 5 minutes once warm, but definately didn't want to perform at all. I normally start it out in 2nd gear going forward cause of the granny low, but i had to pump the gas pretty good in order to keep her running long enought to get it in place.

I'm gonna give the carb a bath and rebuild while i'm at it...not sure this is causing my problem, but definately not ruling it out.

My question at this point would be, if a head gasket is on it's last leg...is it likely that it will progressively smoke harder every time the engine is ran, and also, would that be the major cause of a huge plume of smoke?

I understand there are a lot of variables, but i've never seen this as bad as it smokes, and don't wanna rule out other options while i have this thing torn apart.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Mr-Jack

.......My question at this point would be, if a head gasket is on it's last leg...is it likely that it will progressively smoke harder every time the engine is ran, and also, would that be the major cause of a huge plume of smoke?

I understand there are a lot of variables, but i've never seen this as bad as it smokes, and don't wanna rule out other options while i have this thing torn apart.

Yes, it's possible on both questions. As the engine cools, it sucks moisture into the cylinder/cylinders. When you start the engine the pistons push the coolant out where it contacts the hot exhaust from the other cylinders causing the plume of smoke. Probably the reason it runs rough is because the spark plug/plugs where the leak is can cause a misfire if at all.

Originally, the reason the head or head gasket was suspect is the white smoke out of one side only. If it was gas contamination it would be out of both exhausts and the last picture you posted basically confirms it.

[Mr-Jack]

Well...got the heads off and found some galley's rusted damn near closed, and water in the cylinder. not bad and they look like they haven't been abused too much, but i'm working on it. here are a few pictures of what i found so far.

[Gumby]

get a zinc anode that hook to the radiator cap or just drops in. So rust goes after it first and not your cooling system.

if your heat aint so great, your heater core could be gummed up from lose scale n rust.

[Mr-Jack]

OK...taking out the left head, and in the picture below, where the push rod goes to the block, there's a guide that is pressed into the block. (don't know what it's called) but is that supposed to be sticking out like that? not all of them are uniform, and i'm pretty sure it's not supposed to be like that. and if they are all supposed to be flush with the block, what's the best way to re-seat them in the block? (Dead blow and a socket?)

[Gumby]

Ok those are your lifters, they ride on the cam and move up and down to move the push rods that move the rockers, that move the valves.

[Gumby]

http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=anode+caps

[Mr-Jack]

rog...well, i'll have to take a look around for the cap, or just buy one of the online ones...i pretty much got everything torqued down. going to set timing and flush the radiator tomorrow...I can see why people charge around a grand to replace head gaskets...i can also see why some mechanics would take short cuts after doing this day after day...it's a PITA, but i'm sure someone doing their own build would definately take better care and pay more attention on their own rig. there was a ton of rust, and corrosion. the pistons looked to be in good repair as well as the cylinder walls. no gouges or scratches. after i get that all done, i'm going to fire it up and see how it goes. I am allowing the gasket to seal for 12 hours. I really wanted to fire it up tonight, but patience i guess.

thanks for all the help with this stuff guys...hopefully i'll have some good news tomorrow.

jack

[fastwillie 696969]

i would think that block would have to be hot tank to clean out the rust ,you might be just setting up for another overheating blow out ,IMO just sayin'
maybe someone can correct me if im wrong

[jjzepplin]

Noticed the fourth valve in on the last pic, the adjusting nut is cranked down a little more than the rest. May be the stud coming out of the head. And would just like to say that that motor is awful clean inside.??? Why would it be that clean and have a blown head gasket? I would do a compression check before i put the whole thing back together to make sure its worth it. Straight edge the top of those studs to see if that ones coming out. Now is the time to pin them if so. Just sayin.

[jjzepplin]

Ok. Just saw the plugged ports. Again why is this motor so clean and has plugged ports??
I know you don't want to hear this, So I will whisper-pull it apart and hot -tank it.
Or...put it back together and start looking for another motor and radiator.
Good foundation though. Flat-top pistons and looks like 1.94 heads. Worth fixin!

[Mr-Jack]

well, If my compression isn't right, and the rings are gummed up, I won't know be pulling it back apart until I get moved into the new house. I don't have time to do a full restore, hot tank, and all that right now.

I was surprised how clean the surfaces were, I just woke up, didn't end up getting to sleep til 5 am...so after a few cups of coffee, i'll be out there flushing it and cranking it.

I wanna flush the heater core seperately too...can i just put a hose in the inlet and dropp the other hose into a bucket and flush the core that way?