Overcome with Frustration!

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by savatreatabvr

I've got one of those old chrome PENSKE 244.2115 timing lights I bought at a flea market for $10, I've always assumed it was accurate but how accurate can it be after 20 years?

Could be okay, I've got some really old timing lights here that go with my Sun diagnostic machine and I know that's from the late 50's early 60's. Even that one has dial back adjustability. Still works fine but I prefer to use a more modern timing light with a dial back that is probably 15 years old and works on every ignition system, been great for me. I have a newer digital timing light but I've found it works a little funky when you mess around with high energy systems like MSD Digitial 6 and 7 boxes,,,so I always tend to fall back on my trusty 15 year old analog piece

You don't need the dial back as mentioned, I also mentioned you could get away with timing tape for about $10 and accomplish the same thing,,,providing your balancer hasn't slipped that is....

You really should verify top dead center on the balancer and remark it if necessary before you install timing tape, otherwise the tape will be off too since you will use the "zero" mark to line the tape up.

I'll get you a couple of HEI pics,,,,hang on.

[Firebirdjones]

Here is a spare HEI I modified years ago.

The outer holes are used to hold the rotor button down. The inside holes are not used for anything. You can use either side. I tap this hole with a 10/32 and install a screw upside down (with a little loctite).

Then as the breaker plate moves it contacts this screw and acts like an advance stop. Cheap, simple, easy, and it will never wear out like the cheesy plastic bushings that GM puts in there (throw those in the can).

This trick gives you exactly 18-20 degrees of centrifical advance (it varies a couple degrees from one distributor to the next) but allows an initial setting of about 16-18 degrees so you will have about 34-38 degrees total depending on where you want to be.

Here is the breaker plate at zero advance.....


Here is the breaker plate at full advance contacting the screw....


As you might be able to see in these pics, I've actually filed the side of the screw down a bit where the breaker plate makes contact to allow more centrifical advance ( I don't remember why as I can't remember what engine I had this in last) but this can be done if need be so you can then set your intitial timing down a little lower if you prefer. If you go too far, simply remove the screw and install a new one and start over. Really very simple setup.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Also if you look. He has lighter springs in his hei. You want all your timing in by 3000rpm at the latest
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[Firebirdjones]

Yeah, I had this one all setup years ago for something. I don't remember where it's all set at, I'd have to put it on the machine again.
If you look close you can almost see the vacuum can,,,that's an old adjustable unit so you can set your vacuum advance as well (allen screw goes inside the vacuum nipple). And if you want to get real trick, some of them come with an adjustable cam plate that bolts onto the breaker plate and limits the amount of travel the vacuum arm can move,,,you see those mostly on your points distributors.
They used to be sold by Crane, haven't seen them on the shelf in years though. In a pinch you can make one out of a penny, but I'm letting too many tuning secrets out of the bag, lol.

[Firebirdjones]

If you want to bypass all this monkey business of making stock parts work,,,MSD makes it very easy. A simple billet mechanical distributor comes with aluminum bushings that bolt into the breaker plate. Different sizes limit different cintrifical advance settings with a chart that maps it all out for you. It's dummy proof.

Or if you don't want that they make a digital version now that you simply turn some screws to adjust your initial, centrifical, and even the amount of vacuum advance you want with a simple screw driver.

Of course all this comes with a price

[INSIDIOUS '86]

I have one of those vintage cram units on my truck. You can look up hei tuning tips on the net as well
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[LEEVON]

The problem I run into is that the spring kits suck. I'm not able to get the light gold springs to hold advance at idle. Then you mix and match one gold with a stocker or the next black spring in the kit and you don't get enough advance. I don't know how to fix this, so I modded my weights so the advance comes in easier but holds at idle.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Don't use those mr gasket or spectre weight kits. They are all junk
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[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Don't use those mr gasket or spectre weight kits. They are all junk
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Yep, and sadly that's all you see at your local auto parts stores, because they are cheaper for them to carry, and in turn cheaper to sell, and, well, you know what comes next

You need to hit a real speed shop. Lopars has what you need down in Phoenix. I go down there quite a bit from Prescott, it's the only decent place in the entire state that I'm aware of

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Speed shop? What are those? Aren't the only surviving ones in Cali? Lol
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[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Speed shop? What are those? Aren't the only surviving ones in Cali? Lol
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I thought all the speed shops had been chased out of Cali, after all they are closing all the drag strips ya know

[savatreatabvr]

I think Ill pay Lopers a visit, it would be nice if my weight springs were my problem but I still think it's deeper than that! It's a lot easier than replacing a camshaft though!

[piecesparts]

Some things to also consider, as you try to milk more power out of the beast. I agree with the input above---Get a timing light that has an advance setting capability. That way you can set your TOTAL advance, rather than just setting the timing to a preset mark. Second, look at doing your carburetor adjustments by using a vacuum gauge to get the optimim setting on the air/bleed screws. The trick here is to connect to a good vacuum source on the intake and turn the screws (one at a time in and then back them out until you have the best vacuum signal for that screw. After adjusting both screws the first time, then do it again to fine tune the adjustment. One thing that I have not read here, is do you have a catalytic converter on this truck--If so, it may be plugged up and restricting your exhaust. If you have a single exhaust outlet, what condition is your exhaust system in????

If you are running a taller tire than the other guy, that takes away from your application of HP to the ground. Gear ratio is everything, here. What tranny do you have in this truck? Does it act like it is slipping.

[savatreatabvr]

My Quadrajet is in need of a kit but the air/bleed screws do work! No catalytic converter, it's a single exhaust and very loud, I'm assuming the muffler is burned out? Can having not enough backpressure create my symptoms?

Originally Posted by piecesparts

Some things to also consider, as you try to milk more power out of the beast. I agree with the input above---Get a timing light that has an advance setting capability. That way you can set your TOTAL advance, rather than just setting the timing to a preset mark. Second, look at doing your carburetor adjustments by using a vacuum gauge to get the optimim setting on the air/bleed screws. The trick here is to connect to a good vacuum source on the intake and turn the screws (one at a time in and then back them out until you have the best vacuum signal for that screw. After adjusting both screws the first time, then do it again to fine tune the adjustment. One thing that I have not read here, is do you have a catalytic converter on this truck--If so, it may be plugged up and restricting your exhaust. If you have a single exhaust outlet, what condition is your exhaust system in????

If you are running a taller tire than the other guy, that takes away from your application of HP to the ground. Gear ratio is everything, here. What tranny do you have in this truck? Does it act like it is slipping.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by savatreatabvr

My Quadrajet is in need of a kit but the air/bleed screws do work! No catalytic converter, it's a single exhaust and very loud, I'm assuming the muffler is burned out? Can having not enough backpressure create my symptoms?

Back pressure? Take a wet sock and put it in your mouth. Then run a mile and tell my your faster. This is essentialy what back pressure does. If your running manifolds well then I must say those aren't known for power either a good dual 2.5 exhaust with headers will make you're face grin with the new power. If your intake manifold is a cast iron lump the recycle it as well and get a aluminum one that flows better. You can keep your rotchester as well
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[savatreatabvr]

It has stock intake and exhaust manifolds but replacing them right now is unfortunately not an option, I'll have to stick with timing, carburetor and valve adjustments for now!

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

Back pressure? Take a wet sock and put it in your mouth. Then run a mile and tell my your faster. This is essentialy what back pressure does. If your running manifolds well then I must say those aren't known for power either a good dual 2.5 exhaust with headers will make you're face grin with the new power. If your intake manifold is a cast iron lump the recycle it as well and get a aluminum one that flows better. You can keep your rotchester as well
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[Firebirdjones]

Yeah that stock intake is a huge bottle neck on these engines, with runners that are so far down in the valley area that some of the longer runners actually have to travel up to reach the cylinder heads......no kidding, next time you have one off, flip it over and have a look.

GM kept these low profile intakes throughout production for some reason, even though by this time they were only going in trucks with tons of hood clearance (go figure) originally designed around 1970 for hood clearance on the F-bodies and low horse vettes, and used on full size A and B-bodies since then.

A simple and relatively cheap Performer intake for oval port BBC picks these engines up like night and day (that's what I run on mine) Keeps the RPM in a usable area (idle to 5500) and reuses the quadrajet, that's really all you need, especially with the stock cam that runs out of steam around 4800 anyway. Usually found at swap meets for $50.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by savatreatabvr

It has stock intake and exhaust manifolds but replacing them right now is unfortunately not an option, I'll have to stick with timing, carburetor and valve adjustments for now!

That and your intake will always kill a big block. They like to breathe haha
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[66/87chevy]

Ok this might sound kind of crazy but here goes. I've read through all these post, and as soon as I came across the the one with the picture of your engine. I thought that is NOT a 73 454.
The only reason I say that is because GM did NOT start installing blue 454's until 1978. All GM v8's were orange. I would pull a valve cover off and see what heads you have. They might be the peanut port heads. Peanut port heads were in alot of the later 70's and 80's 454's. If that is what you have then that could be why your truck dosen't run as hard as your buddys.
But then again someone could of just painted your engine blue.

[1981Sturgis]

Are your secondaries working properly? Looks like the linkage from the vacuum canister to the upper secondary butterflies is missing. This pulls them shut until you floor it. Check that the lower butterflies are opening properly also. There is a part of the choke system that will keep it from opening. I see you have a manual choke.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by 66/87chevy

Ok this might sound kind of crazy but here goes. I've read through all these post, and as soon as I came across the the one with the picture of your engine. I thought that is NOT a 73 454.
The only reason I say that is because GM did NOT start installing blue 454's until 1978. All GM v8's were orange. I would pull a valve cover off and see what heads you have. They might be the peanut port heads. Peanut port heads were in alot of the later 70's and 80's 454's. If that is what you have then that could be why your truck dosen't run as hard as your buddys.
But then again someone could of just painted your engine blue.

70's yielded blue engines. 80's had black engines just FYI. And peanut ports are proven to support 450 hp on numerous occasions so I hardly doubt the are the pinch factor since the factory cam still only uses about half thes cyl heads potential
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[66/87chevy]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

70's yielded blue engines. 80's had black engines just FYI. And peanut ports are proven to support 450 hp on numerous occasions so I hardly doubt the are the pinch factor since the factory cam still only uses about half thes cyl heads potential
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NO Chevy v8 engines were ORANGE through 1977. In later 77 they changed them to BLUE up until 1985 then they went to BLACK.

I agree peanut port heads can be set up to work very well with the right package, but we are talking about a stock 454 with peanut port heads. It would be luck to get out of it's own way.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by 66/87chevy

NO Chevy v8 engines were ORANGE through 1977. In later 77 they changed them to BLUE up until 1985 then they went to BLACK.

I agree peanut port heads can be set up to work very well with the right package, but we are talking about a stock 454 with peanut port heads. It would be luck to get out of it's own way.

76 was the last year of the orange engines. The old 77 454 pickup I had was a blue engine. So at some point during that time frame the change was made.

I don't agree with the "peanut port 454 won't get out of it's own way" comment though.

My 79 t ton ran 14.70's mph and weighed over 5500 lbs. by the time I got in it (5300 without driver). It was a stock long block with 70k miles at the time, a simple performer intake, performer camshaft, and headers/exhaust. Mainly done for towing power, but it was sticking with performance cars of the day (late 80's irocs and 5.0 mustangs) so I wouldn't say it couldn't get out of it's own way. For a truck shaped like a brick and weighing well over 2 tons, it raises it's fair share of eyebrows.
I now have a GM crate 502 HT in it which still utilizes the same peanut port heads, but with a more modern roller cam and a tad more compression. I swapped over the same performer intake, same headers. Dyno'd at 540 ft lbs. and 377 hp. It's primarily my tow rig and not meant to be a race truck But that flat torque curve of over 500 ft lbs. from 2600 up to 4700 rpms (thanks to peanut ports) really moves the truck around nicely, which is what a big boxy heavy truck needs. It runs circles around the original 454 and it runs to 5500 easily although I'd bet shifting earlier might produce a quicker ET. I'll get another track time out of it when I get down there for giggles, but I'd suspect an easy 1/2 second over the old times. Nothing to sneeze at for an old 1 ton.

[66/87chevy]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

76 was the last year of the orange engines. The old 77 454 pickup I had was a blue engine. So at some point during that time frame the change was made.

I don't agree with the "peanut port 454 won't get out of it's own way" comment though.

My 79 t ton ran 14.70's mph and weighed over 5500 lbs. by the time I got in it (5300 without driver). It was a stock long block with 70k miles at the time, a simple performer intake, performer camshaft, and headers/exhaust. Mainly done for towing power, but it was sticking with performance cars of the day (late 80's irocs and 5.0 mustangs) so I wouldn't say it couldn't get out of it's own way. For a truck shaped like a brick and weighing well over 2 tons, it raises it's fair share of eyebrows.
I now have a GM crate 502 HT in it which still utilizes the same peanut port heads, but with a more modern roller cam and a tad more compression. I swapped over the same performer intake, same headers. Dyno'd at 540 ft lbs. and 377 hp. It's primarily my tow rig and not meant to be a race truck But that flat torque curve of over 500 ft lbs. from 2600 up to 4700 rpms (thanks to peanut ports) really moves the truck around nicely, which is what a big boxy heavy truck needs. It runs circles around the original 454 and it runs to 5500 easily although I'd bet shifting earlier might produce a quicker ET. I'll get another track time out of it when I get down there for giggles, but I'd suspect an easy 1/2 second over the old times. Nothing to sneeze at for an old 1 ton.

While growing up as a youngster in the 70's & 80's our old family 77 chevy c10came with a Orange 454. I've searched this topic several times and it seems that most people think it's 1977 or 1978. But nothing for sure.

I hear you on the old 454 pickup's eating up Mustangs & Irocs in the 80's. I was in my teens back then and blew the doors off of alot of Irocs, Vetts, & Mustangs Those where some fun times.

But back to the original post I'm thinking the blue 454 in a 73 or 74 dosen't sound right. I would look at the casting #'s on the block and heads. A original 73 or 74 454 should of come from GM orange.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by 66/87chevy

While growing up as a youngster in the 70's & 80's our old family 77 chevy c10came with a Orange 454. I've searched this topic several times and it seems that most people think it's 1977 or 1978. But nothing for sure.

I hear you on the old 454 pickup's eating up Mustangs & Irocs in the 80's. I was in my teens back then and blew the doors off of alot of Irocs, Vetts, & Mustangs Those where some fun times.

But back to the original post I'm thinking the blue 454 in a 73 or 74 dosen't sound right. I would look at the casting #'s on the block and heads. A original 73 or 74 454 should of come from GM orange.

Yeah I'm thinking that color change over was somewhere in that time frame of 77-78 and probably didn't happen over night. Could be a mixed bag for those couple years.

I agree 73-74 should definately be orange.