Sound Deadening These Old Rattle Cans...

[07XCSBZ71]

Peel and seal(Lowes) and Peal and stick(Home Depot) are Butyl based products, not asphalt based like a few other products.

[dieseldawg142]

Originally Posted by 07XCSBZ71

Peel and seal(Lowes) and Peal and stick(Home Depot) are Butyl based products, not asphalt based like a few other products.

i think you got that backwards, i'm in the roofing industry & every roll of PNS i've ever used is asphalt. a roll of this kind of roofing in pure butyl would put it pricewise out of the market compared with other similar types of roofing, thats why you usually see pure butyl roofing in narrow tape size mostly
http://www.solutions.mfmbp.com/MFM-0...20brochure.pdf

[y5mgisi]

Subscribed.

[07XCSBZ71]

Originally Posted by dieseldawg142

i think you got that backwards, i'm in the roofing industry & every roll of PNS i've ever used is asphalt. a roll of this kind of roofing in pure butyl would put it pricewise out of the market compared with other similar types of roofing, thats why you usually see pure butyl roofing in narrow tape size mostly
http://www.solutions.mfmbp.com/MFM-0...20brochure.pdf

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Typar-4-i...l#.Uip14Mbryjm

http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326...1018733&rpp=32

Both of these are Butyl products, but I guess it could depend on what part of the country you're in.

[hick]

Sorry folks, I did not mean to open this never ending can of worms.

I am NOT interested in using the Lowes/Home Depot stuff. I've read every thread on this argument (I did not mean to turn this into one), and despite my total lack of knowledge/experience I have concluded for my own use that its out of the question.

I am of the theory that companies like Second Skin,dynamat, etc have put a touch more research into there products, then that of a roofing product being re-purposed

Now that I have put that to rest...

Originally Posted by Gigem

I am going to have to disagree here. You can make it quieter than when it was new. You can make it ride better than when it was new. But it won't ever compare to a 2014 truck.

Just trying to manage your expectations...
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I appreciate your comment, and your right... That was a bit of a far fetched comment. When I said "modern", I was referring to the GMT800's but then I realize those trucks are 10 years old by now, haha

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Instead of dynamat look into brown bread sound dampner and rhino Matt
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[85sierraclassic]

Couple good brands, http://www.murdermat.com/mdk_series.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40-Sq-Ft-Aud...item19dffa955b
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[dieseldawg142]

Originally Posted by 07XCSBZ71

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Typar-4-i...l#.Uip14Mbryjm

http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326...1018733&rpp=32

Both of these are Butyl products, but I guess it could depend on what part of the country you're in.

read the label-asphalt
http://www.lowes.com/pd_154017-81326...1018733&rpp=32

http://www.mfmbp.com/purchase/store/..._and_Seal.aspx

regular fatmat is also rubberized asphalt, i used fatmat mega mat, it's butyl & thicker
if you use PNS to dampen your truck, it will work fine on flat surfaces, but it can be sketchy on vertical & overhead surfaces. from doing thousands of roof curbs, the best way to put any kind of roofing peel & stik on vert. & oh. surfaces is with a good primer, soprema elastocol stik is very good
http://www.soprema.ca/en/technical-r...COL-STICK.aspx
bakor blue is another good primer
http://ca.brockwhite.com/0p46i1143/b...skin-adhesive/
even though i can get this stuff for practically nothing, it was because of the stickability factor why i used butyl mat

[tinydb84]

I think that most people are missing that the sticky stuff isnt to decrease sound. It is to decrease the resonating. Mass loaded vinyl actually absorbs the sound. If you want quiet then do MLV

[dieseldawg142]

^^X2 agreed, peel n stiks are for metal vibrations, to go quiet you need to block or absorb the noise
how does mlv stack up against other products? dont know, but after installing it in my crew, i was extremely surprised at just how good it actually worked

[Skunksmash]

What I want to see is an actual test done by some non-biased party somewhere. Take 5 cars that are the exact same car, say 5 years old. And then use each top brand on them and see which ones are actually the best. I'd even welcome them using the roofing stuff just to see, but make sure its not sold down south cause then some guy is always going to be wondering what that smell is.

[N2TRUX]

Rather that get involved in this age old debate over low budget home improvement materials versus premium quality application specific products, I will suggest you look in our FAQ section. There are a few posts in there showing application of the premium quality products and tests dispelling the internet fallacies of using home improvement materials in the wrong application.

[hick]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Rather that get involved in this age old debate over low budget home improvement materials versus premium quality application specific products, I will suggest you look in our FAQ section. There are a few posts in there showing application of the premium quality products and tests dispelling the internet fallacies of using home improvement materials in the wrong application.

My intention was not that to restart this debate, I made that point clear already. I am aware of all the threads relating to this because i have read all of them.

My question relates to the top quality stuff being used, and what i can expect in comparison to a vehicle 20 years newer.

I am fully aware this stuff works, but i want to know if spending $1500 deadening and the sound absorption mat is going to get me what i am accustom to in my GMT800 or at least how close. It seems that none of the threads address the environment to modern standards, just to each other.

[Skunksmash]

From my experience, you can get very close to what a modern truck seems like. But notice how a brand new truck loses its "quietness" as it gets older. I'm sure these old trucks were a lot more quiet when they were new, than they are now. In all aspects, including road noise. All that going down the road over the years, just makes any truck make more noise. So I don't think its really fair to compare a brand new, or even a 5 year old truck, to these much older ones. And that's not just because of better design or newer technology, but just plain old age.

That said, I still think you can get close to what a new truck sounds like inside. BUT the thing is, you are going to have to address the issues that are already addressed in the newer trucks. They don't just ride quieter by magic, there is a reason. Newer trucks have a lot better sound insulation factor, coming from the wheel wells. That could be addressed. They have a factory sound damper sprayed on the floor. That will be addressed when you lay yours. They also don't have those vent windows. All the little things like that add up, and if you took your time and got to each one, I bet you could come very close to a newer truck. Personally my 87 now rides much more quiet than my neighbor's 07 silverado. There really is no comparison when it comes to road noise. His gets loud, mine doesn't. Hope this helps

[BONUSCAB]

Dynamat is nothing more than peel-n-seal with a dynamat logo added to it. And it doesn't smell and it doesn't stink your car up. I did the whole interior in my Mustang with it and worked great. Couldn't smell it when I was installing it, and you can't smell it if you let the car sit all day in 100* heat. I bought an area rug sized section of home carpet padding and put it under the carpet, over the headliner, and behind the door panels. If I ever do another car or truck I want quieted down, I will do it the same way. This made a huge difference on my car. This is on a fox body Mustang. These cars were never designed to be "nice" cars. A uni-body car designed with economy in mind they used very thin sheet metal, with not nearly enough structure to the car to be strong. They are tin cans, and sound as such when you drive them. I'm a peel-n-seal believer. And I've noticed no one that bad mouths p-n-s and actually USED it...

[Skunksmash]

I'll agree that its great stuff if you can show the the mil thickness of the aluminum backing. And the thickness matches dynamat extreme. Since that's where your sound deadening actually comes from. The butyl rubber helps a little bit, but its the thickness of the aluminum that's really important. Basically, the thicker the aluminum, the more sound you're going to block. The aluminum adds mass that absorbs the energy from the the resonating metal. With thicker aluminum, the metal just doesn't have the oomph to be able to jiggle all that extra weight of the aluminum. With thin aluminum, its got enough oomph and it can still make SOME sound, although of course its not as much sound as it would emit with no sound damper at all.

So in the end it comes down to money. Do you want the good stuff, or do you want the stuff that kinda works, just not as good? There is a difference between roofing supplies and the high quality stuff, believe it or not.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

The doors and back of cab seem to be a big factor on noise take the doors apart and get some spray coating inside and then a stick on dampner of your choice. Then put MLV on the back side of the door panel and get one of those lower door panel carpets and put MLV on the back of that.

Then MLV from the front of the cab to the back wall. Spray with lizard skin before hand if you feel necessary. Quiter tires can help quite a bit. Can cut 50% of noise down if your tires are really bad.

If your truck is an 80s truck the glass was thinner than 70s trucks. You can get the thicker glass and window Chanel's From a wrecking yard. Headliner helps a little and MLV behind the kick panels should get you closer.

That should get you really close if not at that point other than wind noise. These trucks are square. New trucks have much better air flow and seals on most of the gaps.
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[shok]

Originally Posted by BONUSCAB

Dynamat is nothing more than peel-n-seal with a dynamat logo added to it.

I have to ask, have you actually had both in hand to compare, Dynomat and Peel n Stick?

I havent touched Dynomat so I have no idea myself.
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[dieseldawg142]

if you had a piece of all these products in your hand at the same time, you would see the obvious differences
claiming dynomat & roofing materials are the same is wrong
people belive they can sub. roofing materials for sound deadner because
#1-they look the same, shiny on 1 side, black & sticky on the other
#2-don't understand how a constrained layer dampner works.
biggest prob. with asphalt based products is the temp. variations, they have a narrower span than a butyl based product. if you think your truck doesn't get hot, stick a thermometer INSIDE you door panel on a nice day,150-200 degrees is not uncommon, which is also the melting point for almost all asphalt based peel n stiks
here is an excellent read from one of our suppliers on asphalt vs butyl
http://www.hansenmarketing.com/Produ...dYouChoose.pdf
another one
http://tapes.berryplastics.com/Data/...51HJ_11-12.pdf
there is alot more to sound deadning then what i know, but i have used asphalt prod. for over 30 yrs on a daily basis, & asphalt will in no way stand up to butyl. i have seen how asphalt & asphalt products hold up whether their covered or exposed, & how they perform in all temps & weather situations, it is an organic material- it will break down. thats why people who use it & claim it's great, wait till about your 3rd or 4th summer with it once the asphalt has oxidized & broken down. using a good primer can help it stick better & longer, but they can be REAL messy, & now you've spent just as much as buying a good butyl deadner
to make asphalt an even dicier choice, remember this, asphalt is petro based, every time the price of gas goes up, the manufactors dilute the asphalt even more, kegs of tar we get today are complete crap compared to kegs from 20-30 yrs ago

[dieseldawg142]

one other thing about asphalt based deadners, using heat to put it down is one of the worst things you can do. it burns the VOC's out drastically shortening it's lifespan. thats why we switched to primers instead

[hick]

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

From my experience, you can get very close to what a modern truck seems like. But notice how a brand new truck loses its "quietness" as it gets older. I'm sure these old trucks were a lot more quiet when they were new, than they are now. In all aspects, including road noise. All that going down the road over the years, just makes any truck make more noise. So I don't think its really fair to compare a brand new, or even a 5 year old truck, to these much older ones. And that's not just because of better design or newer technology, but just plain old age.

That said, I still think you can get close to what a new truck sounds like inside. BUT the thing is, you are going to have to address the issues that are already addressed in the newer trucks. They don't just ride quieter by magic, there is a reason. Newer trucks have a lot better sound insulation factor, coming from the wheel wells. That could be addressed. They have a factory sound damper sprayed on the floor. That will be addressed when you lay yours. They also don't have those vent windows. All the little things like that add up, and if you took your time and got to each one, I bet you could come very close to a newer truck. Personally my 87 now rides much more quiet than my neighbor's 07 silverado. There really is no comparison when it comes to road noise. His gets loud, mine doesn't. Hope this helps

Thank you sir. This is what I was looking for.

The plan is to have the entire underside, rockers and interior floor rock gaurded.

As for my window vents, that has been weighing on my mind. Those stupid little windows surprising hold some of the most memroies i have of these sqaures and I am again, unaware of the quality of the kits that delete the,.

I am aware of wheel noise on the road, but I had not considered the noise FROM the wheel wells... I wonder if some rock gaurd on the insides of the fenders of them selves would fix that.

Thank you for all the insight in the last day, its EXACTLY what I was looking for.

Scott

[Skunksmash]

What I'm going to do to the wheel wells, is coat it in a product by Second Skin. Its called Sludge, IIRC. Its sort of like a sound damper that's made to be exposed the the elements. I mention this because I'm not sure if rock guard was designed with sound insulation in mind. Just for example, the inner wheel wells on my grandmother's Lincoln Aviator are coated in a whole half inch of some kind of rubbery foam. From the factory. And it rides pretty darn quiet.

[gmachinz]

Well, myself I don't care for the added weight of Dynamat style materials-I went on the cheap sort of but its extremely effective. I cut my own 3/8" synthetic fiberglass insulation panels and use a HD spray adhesive to bond them to the backs of my door panels, kicks, rear cab and above the headliner. And, I make my own outer firewall foil-backed insulation panels to deaden noise and radiate heat away from the cabin. This drastically cuts down on noise and the heat is super in the winter and the AC is much more frigid in the summer. There are other tips but that's the start for me.
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[Skunksmash]

Cascade Audio focuses on the low weight of all their products. They're not any cheaper than the rest though. But where weight is a concern, Cascade is the only game in town. All the rest pay no heed to weight.


http://cascadeaudio.com/car_noise_control/index.htm

[Blackpony]

im not sure the cost of this peel and seal or what ever it is, but i bought a roll of fatmat off ebay for $90 to my door, it covered the entire interior of my truck with a bunch left over.