body swap to newer frame?

[Captainfab]

There are a few issues with that frame swap, but it is definitely feasable for the average guy. Just check with your local DMV regarding the possible legal issues with having a frame with a different VIN.

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

I have a 60 apache and it's a long bed....I want to convert to a short bed....is there any major issues with putting it on a 67-72 short frame?

[padresag]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

There are a few issues with that frame swap, but it is definitely feasable for the average guy. Just check with your local DMV regarding the possible legal issues with having a frame with a different VIN.

it would be even less complicated with a 63-66 frame, but again check with your DMV for legalities
ron

[Leroy-B1]

What's the difference in the two and what mods are we talking about?

[padresag]

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

What's the difference in the two and what mods are we talking about?

there was a difference in body styles so there is a difference in mounting, stands to reason. the front frame horns are different. rad crossmember is different, cab mounting is different.
ron

[Captainfab]

The front frame horns are different. Different shape and closer together. The radiator support mounts on the frame will need to be moved. The bolt holes in the cab for the front cab mounts will need to be moved inboard. The rear cab mounts on the frame will need to be moved up, I believe. All the mounting points/bolts for your '60 bed will be too far apart to bolt up to the '67-'72 frame. Those will all need to be moved closer together.......that's all I can think of at the monent.

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

What's the difference in the two and what mods are we talking about?

[Softpatch]

I just found this ...hope it helps...sp
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http://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthreads/...&Number=873438
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Tony on the 60-62 where does the width differential take place in the frame. the front section is the same as the later ones is it not. the rear of the earlier frames are about 42". the position where the frt cross member(2 wheel drive)goes in is the same right up to 87 is it not.
just curious
ron

[Leroy-B1]

So would the mount locations be the same if I used a 63-66 frame and just added the 71-72 stuff to it? Also are most 63-66 frames trailing arm and will the front stub from a later model bolt directly under it....would that be the easiest with no fab work? Also where are the numbers traditionally found on a 63-66 frame?

[padresag]

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

So would the mount locations be the same if I used a 63-66 frame and just added the 71-72 stuff to it? Also are most 63-66 frames trailing arm and will the front stub from a later model bolt directly under it....would that be the easiest with no fab work? Also where are the numbers traditionally found on a 63-66 frame?

you will have to relocate where the front cab mount bolts come through the floor.
you can just add the 71 72 stuff to it. it depends on what you are doing with the frt suspension. The Capt knows more about that.
chevrolet were trailing arm other tha 4 x 4 and gmc are semi- elliptics
ron

[Captainfab]

If you were to use a '63-'66 frame, the bed mounting would still have to be dealt with as well as the front cab mount bolt holes. Yes the majority of the '63-'66 C10-20 Chevy trucks have the trailing arms in the rear. The VIN on the '63-'66 frames is in the same place as on the '67-'72 frames. There is one on the drivers side just forward of the motor mount, and there is another on the side of the frame below the cab on the drivers side.

You can upgrade a '63-'66 to disc brakes just as easily as a '67-'70 truck. Additionally you do not have to use '71-'72 components. The '73-'87 parts work just as well, if not better IMO. Plus they are much easier to find. Here is one of several threads on the subject which can be found in the '60-'66 FAQ Index.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=367260

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

So would the mount locations be the same if I used a 63-66 frame and just added the 71-72 stuff to it? Also are most 63-66 frames trailing arm and will the front stub from a later model bolt directly under it....would that be the easiest with no fab work? Also where are the numbers traditionally found on a 63-66 frame?

[overtimeracing]

Here's how we mounted a 63 Chevy body on a 74 Chevy Blazer frame. It would be the same with the short box frame I assume. Both frames are the same width apart. We remove the 63 body and placed it on the 74 frame supporting the body with four by four blocks of wood then attach the steering box rag joint to the power steering box on the newer frame. We then cut the cab mounts off the 63 frame, position them on the 74 frame drill holes and mounted the mounts where they needed to go, making sure everything was square. We removed the wood, added body mounts and tightened everything down. On the Blazer frame we could not use the rear cab mount because the spring perches are in the way but I would assume on a short box frame this would not be a problem. The radiator support mounts on your 63 body will be further ahead than on your 74 frame, sandwich pieces of quarter inch metal in the front body mount of the newer frame and make the top portion long enough to reach the mounting hole of your older body. Place a body mount there and run a bolt through it, and tighten everything down. You would possibly need to drill holes in the frame to mount the box or transfer box mounts from the 63 frame as well but just make sure everything is square and lined up. Drill your holes run your bolts, tighten everything down and you're all set. Sounds easy doesn't it?

[padresag]

Originally Posted by overtimeracing

Here's how we mounted a 63 Chevy body on a 74 Chevy Blazer frame. It would be the same with the short box frame I assume. Both frames are the same width apart. We remove the 63 body and placed it on the 74 frame supporting the body with four by four blocks of wood then attach the steering box rag joint to the power steering box on the newer frame. We then cut the cab mounts off the 63 frame, position them on the 74 frame drill holes and mounted the mounts where they needed to go, making sure everything was square. We removed the wood, added body mounts and tightened everything down. On the Blazer frame we could not use the rear cab mount because the spring perches are in the way but I would assume on a short box frame this would not be a problem. The radiator support mounts on your 63 body will be further ahead than on your 74 frame, sandwich pieces of quarter inch metal in the front body mount of the newer frame and make the top portion long enough to reach the mounting hole of your older body. Place a body mount there and run a bolt through it, and tighten everything down. You would possibly need to drill holes in the frame to mount the box or transfer box mounts from the 63 frame as well but just make sure everything is square and lined up. Drill your holes run your bolts, tighten everything down and you're all set. Sounds easy doesn't it?

what is the w/base on that truck- a little long?
ron

[Gmforce]

Originally Posted by Leroy-B1

I have a 60 apache and it's a long bed....I want to convert to a short bed....is there any major issues with putting it on a 67-72 short frame?

Leroy, this swap is pretty simple and their are many ways of getting done. the newer stuff will bolt up to ur frame and or body I believe...

[overtimeracing]

1960-66 C10 wheelbase is 115" short, and 127" long
1973-87 C10 wheelbase is 117" short, and 135" long
1973-91 Blazer Wheelbase is 106.5"

[padresag]

Originally Posted by overtimeracing

1960-66 C10 wheelbase is 115" short, and 127" long
1973-87 C10 wheelbase is 117" short, and 135" long
1973-91 Blazer Wheelbase is 106.5"

I know what the wheel bases are ; I was asking you what your w/base was on that truck. by what pictures that you have shown the frt wheels seem forward of what they should be
ron

[overtimeracing]

they are slightly turned to the right. the wheelbase is 106.5

[Softpatch]

Thank you guy for all the good good information on the length of the wheel
bases. How about width (side to side)
Messurments from the 60-66. And 73-87
..? Thanks again good thread....sp

[padresag]

Originally Posted by overtimeracing

they are slightly turned to the right. the wheelbase is 106.5

so did you shorten the box to compensate for the 9" difference?
ron

[overtimeracing]

Originally Posted by padresag

so did you shorten the box to compensate for the 9" difference?
ron

Yes...Sorry I wasn't gettin it. The bed was actually purchased later as I had a fleet side bed for it, but didn't feel talented enough to complete the body work to shorten it. The step side was actually an 8' bed shortened down. I don't remember how much I cut off, but I measured from the center line of the rear axle to the back of the cab and transferred the measurement to the box and cut. I cant weld either so the front stake pocket is missing as well. I left the box sides a little long to put a 90* bend in them to bolt on the front panel. If I could weld, I would have added the stake pockets back on after the cut was made.

[overtimeracing]

Originally Posted by Softpatch

Thank you guy for all the good good information on the length of the wheel
bases. How about width (side to side)
Messurments from the 60-66. And 73-87
..? Thanks again good thread....sp

79.6 width for the 73-87. I don't know about 60-66 but don't forget guys are swapping these axles everyday, so its gotta be close...

[padresag]

Originally Posted by overtimeracing

Yes...Sorry I wasn't gettin it. The bed was actually purchased later as I had a fleet side bed for it, but didn't feel talented enough to complete the body work to shorten it. The step side was actually an 8' bed shortened down. I don't remember how much I cut off, but I measured from the center line of the rear axle to the back of the cab and transferred the measurement to the box and cut. I cant weld either so the front stake pocket is missing as well. I left the box sides a little long to put a 90* bend in them to bolt on the front panel. If I could weld, I would have added the stake pockets back on after the cut was made.

"sounds easy doesn't it". it may be easy to slap together, but what is it a mutt. is it going to be legal to get registered in your state and what would it get registered as? check this out. http://www.bipac.net/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_NY.pdf
it may not be so easy after all
ron

[overtimeracing]

It would get registered in nys as a 63 chevy c10. Do you think these cops know the difference in a c10 or a K10? Do you think they even care?

[overtimeracing]

Originally Posted by padresag

"sounds easy doesn't it". it may be easy to slap together, but what is it a mutt. is it going to be legal to get registered in your state and what would it get registered as? check this out. http://www.bipac.net/semaga/TagTitleToolbox_NY.pdf
it may not be so easy after all
ron

Do you really want historical plates? Is that truly the issue here? I guess if you're going to run historical plates, or original 1963 plates, then you don't mind having the 1963 frame and the technology that goes with it...

All I'm saying is unless you're planning on robbing a bank with the truck, who's gonna bother you?

[padresag]

Originally Posted by overtimeracing

Do you really want historical plates? Is that truly the issue here? I guess if you're going to run historical plates, or original 1963 plates, then you don't mind having the 1963 frame and the technology that goes with it...

All I'm saying is unless you're planning on robbing a bank with the truck, who's gonna bother you?

yours wouldn't come under the historical section , but more than likely the homemade version
. the crunch will come if you ever have a serious accident( or whoever you sell and unload it to) and badly injure or kill someone they will rip you a new a/hole over that truck. the question is would that truck pass NY DMV inspection. and the police are not as dumb as you think and there are more than likely more than a few that play with vehicles of this vintage or had them
I know that you feel that you are invincible though in reality it doesn't always work that way
ron
if you scroll down that dmv sheet you will find other applications

[padresag]

that is ok, I have been told worse by more knowledgeable people. the reason that I asked in the first place was because it did look out of proportion and you saying how easy it is to put together a mutt. MY response to this is so that this will not influence up and comers that this is the easy way to build a truck that may not be legal on the streets and your reference to the authorities that "cops aren't that bright".
your reference to that crossmember is a little out of line; your just trying to get at me by taking a poke. here is my reply to him about the crossmember, which did come from another thread and for another truck.
"I understand unless you need the real thing, there are other less expensive ways to do it. I also have 2 other crossmembers to will do the job, but you should be able to get them locally for less then what it would cost to ship to you
http://www.persh.org/pickup/700R4.htm
ron "

ron

[LostMy65]

Has anyone seen what one of these older bodies on the newer frame looks like?
If you're building a 4x4, then it may look okay.
But for a 2-Wheel drive, it looks all out of whack.
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Bottom line....
There is far less fabrication needed to put the newer parts under the older frame, than trying to get an older body to sit on the newer frame. And when you're done, it still won't look right. Then of course you still have the VIN issues.

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