Can an AC Installed make the engine run hotter than before?

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by CST10

Yea, I guess most are right with not having to worry about boiling over.

I don't think that the radiator shops/vendors will say for positive that they would take it back if it doesn't work.

Think I am going to install a tranny cooler and get that out of the radiator. Every 20 degrees cooler a tranny can run will make it survive longer.

Who knows, maybe that might lower it 3-5 degrees too.

Thanks everyone for the replies and suggestions. Much appreciated.

If you add a tranny cooler do not route it solely through that. They are auxiliary coolers for a reason. Adding one is a great idea, but also keep the lines running through the heat exchanger in the radiator as liquid dissipates heat more efficiently than air.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

If you add a tranny cooler do not route it solely through that. They are auxiliary coolers for a reason. Adding one is a great idea, but also keep the lines running through the heat exchanger in the radiator as liquid dissipates heat more efficiently than air.

110% You'll burn up your trans if you remove it from the radiator! But do add one. I added the heat exchanger type. It doesn't need to be mounted where it can get air flow, but I put it where it could anyway...

I added an aux cooler to my truck like 8 years ago. I've put over 40K miles on my 700R so far.

This was just a mock up pic, it's installed on the front cross member:

[Hart_Rod]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

110% You'll burn up your trans if you remove it from the radiator! But do add one. I added the heat exchanger type. It doesn't need to be mounted where it can get air flow, but I put it where it could anyway...

I added an aux cooler to my truck like 8 years ago. I've put over 40K miles on my 700R so far.

This was just a mock up pic, it's installed on the front cross member:

+1. You also get the added benefit of at least an extra quart of transmission fluid running through the system...

[PanelDeland]

What about those aluminum radiators. I have talked to a few suppliers of them, they all claim about a 15-20% decrease in temperature just by swapping to one. They are expensive and I really don't want to spend that kind of cash if the gains are really small. If it could get me back to 190 degrees, I might would take the plunge for one.



I always look at those claims this way,if they were telling me the truth,they would have no problem backing up their claim with a return policy.Obviously there are a lot of variables but I don't see that much gain from just a materials change.

[Andy4639]

Read this and it may help you. Some very good reading on cooling systems.


http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Cooling/

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Electric fans are also not necessary for these trucks. *IF* one is necessary, something is likely off. People had A/C when these trucks were new and people have A/C now. It was 115* back then, it's 115* now. A properly set up extreme duty (or whatever they called it) factory cooling system will work.

Really? Not necessary? Something likely off??? The assumption you made is that we all drive stock trucks with a few trinkets slapped on them so we can say "custom".

I want to see you install a shroud and clutched fan on this motor! No Room. There is exactly 4.5 inches in front of that serpentine belt at the crank pulley and 3 of that is radiator. This truck has 15,000 miles on it since finished and all of those are in the middle of the Sonoran Desert where there are at least 30 days every year when the temps are over 105. This truck has never overheated. Twin Be Cool Electric fans and a Be Cool Rad rated for 800 horsepower. Does it "need" electric fans? Youbetcherass if you want to run that motor. Is there "something wrong" with this truck? Only if you're the local sheriff and you're trying to catch up to me on these back roads!.

[Stocker]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Is there "something wrong" with this truck?

There is something wrong with that truck. It needs an air cleaner to keep the desert grit out of that big bad beautiful engine.

Other than that, nothing wrong. Well, maybe the gas bills, but some things are worth it.

[CST10]

Nice engine

[CST10]

Those air tranny coolers really help? Or should I consider one with a built in fan?

I agree on not seeing that much gain from material change only for the radiator. I already have twin electric fans pulling 4600 cfm.

Many an external pusher fan on the condensor or would help? A buddy recommended adding that to see. Flex a lite also said the same thing and said to test it by placing a small house fan in front and see if it changes it.

[CST10]

Where do most people mount those air cooled tranny coolers at?

[Andy4639]

Mine has been mounted in front of the radiator and behind the condenser for years. I installed it as soon as I installed the 700-R4 and it had over 100,000 on it when pulled out. It's the same way now with the 4L80E installed.

You can't see it but if you look close you can see the hoses sticking up behind the condenser on the passenger side and the keepers that hold it in place.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Really? Not necessary? Something likely off??? The assumption you made is that we all drive stock trucks with a few trinkets slapped on them so we can say "custom".

Yes, I was referring to stock trucks. Even ones that are mildly hopped up should run just fine with a stock set up. Time and time again people use electric fans to mask the real issue as to why they're overheating in the first place and never fix the real problem.

I know lots of guys with LS swaps that use e fans, but most of them use a form of OEM fan, and not an aftermarket one. Again, I mentioned I was burned by aftermarket fans (and have read about many others that were as well) and will use an OEM Chrysler fan on my C10.

I was also just burned by a pile of crap "aftermarket" flywheel. I installed a T5 in my 65 mustang and it's vibrating like crazy in N and all gears at the same RPM. Turns out quite a few people had the same problem with that brand. Expensive (and time consuming) lesson learned. Going with an expensive Ford Racing one now (didn't know they offered one for my set up at the time).

Nice looking motor!

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by Stocker

There is something wrong with that truck. It needs an air cleaner to keep the desert grit out of that big bad beautiful engine.

Other than that, nothing wrong. Well, maybe the gas bills, but some things are worth it.

Like this? I don't always pick the latest pic! Believe me when I tell you, I never notice the gas bills. Pressing the loud pedal is just too much fun.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Yes, I was referring to stock trucks. Even ones that are mildly hopped up should run just fine with a stock set up. Time and time again people use electric fans to mask the real issue as to why they're overheating in the first place and never fix the real problem.

I know lots of guys with LS swaps that use e fans, but most of them use a form of OEM fan, and not an aftermarket one. Again, I mentioned I was burned by aftermarket fans (and have read about many others that were as well) and will use an OEM Chrysler fan on my C10.

I was also just burned by a pile of crap "aftermarket" flywheel. I installed a T5 in my 65 mustang and it's vibrating like crazy in N and all gears at the same RPM. Turns out quite a few people had the same problem with that brand. Expensive (and time consuming) lesson learned. Going with an expensive Ford Racing one now (didn't know they offered one for my set up at the time).

Nice looking motor!

As with most aftermarket stuff you get what you pay for. I wouldn't use anything but a Griffin or Be Cool rad and fan IF I need to go with an aftermarket unit. They are expensive but if you install them correctly they are reliable and always work. The 1320 race club I am in has six cars using LS motors and they all use electric fans. The ECM has the switched output for the fan relay built in so there is no need for a thermostat specifically for the fan.

That motor will take this truck through the traps at SIR in 11.3 sec. with the AC on! It's a bit faster with it off.

[Andy4639]

I'm running a 6.0 LS in the 71 now with 2 electric fans with no shroud. The fans themselves have a small flange with them but I want to make a shroud for them to pull more air through the whole radiator. I'm also looking at the new LS radiator by Griffin.

[CST10]

That 572 is awesome looking. AWESOME!

At the risk of side tracking my own thread, how much HP you putting out with that beast?

[CST10]

Does anyone know how much temperature drop those air cooled tranny coolers lower it? Some one mentioned installing on the return line from the radiator. Any body recommend a location and provide some additional photos.

[chevy72blu]

Never broke 210 while under load and not moving for an hour?

You're splitting hairs. I wouldnt give it a second thought.

[CST10]

It actually hovered between 210/218 degrees during the torture test. I guess that is still ok? Just not use to seeing that high of a temp on it. I guess that condensor is adding the heat. I put a temp gun on it and it was running 150 degrees on the ac condenser which would increase the incoming air temp by 55-60 degrees vs the ambient outside temp.

I am going to torture test it again soon when I get time, but will add a house box fan to blow into the grill and see if that changes anything.

I just hate to spend $500-$600 on a new aluminum radiator for minor improvements........but if it would truly drop the temp 15-20 degrees I would buy one.

Does anyone have real world experience with just adding the radiator to the system and seeing that kind of improvement?

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by CST10

I guess that condensor is adding the heat. I put a temp gun on it and it was running 150 degrees on the ac condenser which would increase the incoming air temp by 55-60 degrees vs the ambient outside temp.

If you're still asking if the A/C condenser adds heat, that answer is absolutely 1000% yes.

A condenser adds heat a couple ways.

1. It's physically blocking the radiator. Air still pulls through it, but not as easily as it did before the condenser was there.

2. Condensers can get pretty damn hot with the A/C cranked on high. So now, your fan is trying to cool your radiator and it's pulling the hot air through the condenser into the radiator as well, so the system has to work much harder.

That is why on any factory set up where A/C is involved, there is almost always a much larger radiator and a larger fan that pulls more air. That's probably not 100% true on modern cars anymore (can you even buy one without A/C?) only because it's cheaper to just put the "max cooling" stuff on everything, rather than have multiple parts for the same car (another reason why crank windows aren't offered anymore, it's actually cheaper to just have ALL cars have power.)


Post some pics of your current set up. Did you put the thermostat back in? That should be done before anything else.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by CST10

That 572 is awesome looking. AWESOME!

At the risk of side tracking my own thread, how much HP you putting out with that beast?

GM performance rates it at 620 but it developed 575 at the rear wheels with the headers and the exhaust dumps open on a chassis dyno so the dyno shop estimates 650 at the flywheel. It's great fun when you tease the boy racers in their mouse-tangs!

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by CST10

Does anyone know how much temperature drop those air cooled tranny coolers lower it? Some one mentioned installing on the return line from the radiator. Any body recommend a location and provide some additional photos.

Tranny fluid can get pretty hot. Well over 200 degrees. The cooler in the rad will hold it at the coolant temp which is an advantage on a cold winter day! I always regarded the air coolers as a convenient way of separating the truck owner from his money and not good for much else. The coil in the Rad is more than adequate.

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Fitz

Tranny fluid can get pretty hot. Well over 200 degrees. The cooler in the rad will hold it at the coolant temp which is an advantage on a cold winter day! I always regarded the air coolers as a convenient way of separating the truck owner from his money and not good for much else. The coil in the Rad is more than adequate.

I guess all the engineer's at the big three don't know squat!
The radiator cooler will not hold it at temp unless it is a very,very cool day. It will cool it off per the differences in each side of the cooler. It will not hold it at coolant temp.

Turbo Hydra-Matic 350 Handbook (HP Books), the ideal operating temperature for transmission fluid is between 175 and 225 degrees Fahrenheit.

The air cooler will drop his over all temps, by how much not sure.
I have never seen a heavy duty truck not have one installed.
They will make a radiator run cooler over all.
Is it the answer to his problem, I don't know but it want hurt to install one.My 700 r4 had over 100,000 miles on it when I pulled it out for the 6.0 4l80e swap.

[CST10]

I have a 165 degree thermostat already installed. Bleed the system of all air long ago. Have a fluid recovery bottle that the level will rise some and drop and equal amount once cooled back down.

Dam fitz, 575 RWHP. That's bad in a good way.

Having a vapor lock issue with the fuel system too. Just ordered a holley red electrical pump.

Pusher fans on the condenser? What's y'all thoughts on them. Would they help?

[CST10]

Think I'm add a plate type external cooler in addition to the radiator coil for the tranny. The cooler a tranny runs the better., at least that's what I am by the local racers.