Lowest production/serial number

[Cash3481]

Originally Posted by slomotion

There will be some trucks that will "fall through the cracks" as far as just going by VIN number is concerned.
I have a C20 factory dually and was told by several that Chevy never built a C20 dually that the duals didn't come on until the C30 (1 ton) model. It was coded on my SPID, and still a couple of "experts" told me there was no such truck. I called the Restoration people's 800 number and after a little explanation the nice lady asked me what the VIN # was. I gave it to her and a couple of days later she called me back and said one of us mis-read the number. I read it back to her from the plate, and from the SPID. Two or three days later, she called me again and said she had good news and bad news. The bad news was she couldn't find my truck any where in the archives. The good news was she couldn't find my truck any where in the archives............then she explained. In 1968 Chevrolet didn't keep track of anything that was one percent (1%) or less of a production run. She said in '68 there were 1103 flatbed C20's ordered, but since the dually option didn't come up, my truck was one of eleven (11) or less of that configuration built.
I said all of that only to say that as has been mentioned, the VIN's may not be 100% reliable in determining a particular truck's heritage.

There will always be unique vehicles out there. In those cases,collectively we can assist owners with getting there answers. The board members do this now.
Loading pics of the VIN and SPID, will aid in this documentation.

If this database takes off it would load the pics and associate them with that matching VIN. The pictures and full vin would not be shared to the public (like credit card numbers show on your receipt. There would need to be an administrator who loaded the pictures or at least ensured the database continued to work correctly. I will work with my fried on a plan for that.
Thanks for sharing your situation and possible areas of concern.
Mike

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

The Build Sequence Numbers Started with 100001 in 1967-70 and 1972.
In 1971 Build Sequence Numbers started with 600001
In any year 67-72 A Build sequence number starting with 800001, meant that the vehicle was built on the 2nd assembly line at the plant.
So 830855 was the 30,855 truck to be assigned a build number on the 2nd assembly line at Flint in 1971.

So - Bruce - you are proposing Flint Line 1 and Flint Line 2 had unique starting points? I had never thought about that.

Makes sense, since the rest of the VIN prefex would be common and it would be necessary to avoid building multiple vehicles with the same VIN (which would be a huge no-no).

As a reminder, when I started at Flint in 1979, Line 1 was building Chevy and GMC pickups at 60 per hour (8 Chevys to 1 GMC) and Line 2 was the only plant producing Blazer and Suburban, 36 jobs per hour (two Suburbans followed by one Blazer, both Chevy and GMC nameplates).

K

[BruthaMan]

'72 build sequence number: 157389

Daily driver. Drive about 400 miles round trip each week, currently.

[bruceman1968]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

So - Bruce - you are proposing Flint Line 1 and Flint Line 2 had unique starting points? I had never thought about that.
Yes, documented.

Makes sense, since the rest of the VIN prefex would be common and it would be necessary to avoid building multiple vehicles with the same VIN (which would be a huge no-no).

As a reminder, when I started at Flint in 1979, Line 1 was building Chevy and GMC pickups at 60 per hour (8 Chevys to 1 GMC) and Line 2 was the only plant producing Blazer and Suburban, 36 jobs per hour (two Suburbans followed by one Blazer, both Chevy and GMC nameplates).
I love the inside info you bring to the site. Thanks for taking the time, every time you do it. 1 truck a minute. That's fast! In 1972 Flint was building trucks, blazers and suburbans, Chevy/GMC, together on both lines. And at a slower rate.

K

Low Number Vins! Post them up!!

[Cash3481]

Another thing that may help is if you have a truck (with low numbers) that was scrapped, post a pic of the SPID//VIN. That way we can eliminate it from the possibilities of what's out there still on the road or in someone's stash.

I'll put my money where my mouth is, so here's my complete VIN.
TCS142Z500032
LETS POST SOME EM UP!

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by slomotion

I have a C20 factory dually and was told by several that Chevy never built a C20 dually that the duals didn't come on until the C30 (1 ton) model. It was coded on my SPID, and still a couple of "experts" told me there was no such truck.

Simple answer : The "experts" were not experts, they gave you their opinions. Yes, '68 C 20 chassis cab and stakes were available with the dual wheel option. This low volume option was first introduced in 1963.

[Cash3481]

Originally Posted by factorystock

Simple answer : The "experts" were not experts, they gave you their opinions. Yes, '68 C 20 chassis cab and stakes were available with the dual wheel option. This low volume option was first introduced in 1963.

We are all here to learn from each other! Thank you for additional info some and probably most didn't know! Me for one, but I know nothing.
Mike

[Cash3481]

It's official!
I'm going to have a friend put my thoughts into a data base/decoder. I'll have to get it tested by a few knowledgeable members once figured out and ready for testing. I'll leave this thread open for additional comments and suggestions.
Thank you to everyone for their inputs. Keep the thoughts/suggestions coming.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

I love the inside info you bring to the site. Thanks for taking the time, every time you do it. 1 truck a minute. That's fast!

Thank you; that's fast enough that if you are standing on the flat track when it starts up it will knock you down (unless you can grab onto something).

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

CE141F830855
C = 2wd
E = v-8
1 = 1/2 ton
4 = pickup
1 = 1971
F = Flint
830855 = build sequence number This is where it get's interesting and confusing.
*Info below for Chevrolet Trucks only*
The Build Sequence Numbers Started with 100001 in 1967-70 and 1972.
In 1971 Build Sequence Numbers started with 600001
In any year 67-72 A Build sequence number starting with 800001, meant that the vehicle was built on the 2nd assembly line at the plant.
So 830855 was the 30,855 truck to be assigned a build number on the 2nd assembly line at Flint in 1971.
It can even get more confusing that this if you consider rollovers or other reasons for a starting number change.
EDIT: Mike, thanks for the shout out about the VIN thread that Tim and I worked on. The Starting number info on those decoders is incomplete because I didn't have enough room to add all the other possibilities. 100001 is by far the most common. And when I did those decoders I didn't even know that the 1971 Chevy trucks started with 600001. I also should have included the 800001 numbers as 2nd assembly line numbers. On those decoders we excluded a lot of info that was either uncommon or pertained to 40 and up trucks or P's, G's etc. The decoders are tailored for the trucks commonly found on this website.

Bruce - do you have all the starting numbers tabulated somewhere on one chart?

K

[bruceman1968]

Sorry, No not a chart. I included the 3 most common, 1's 6's and 8's, in my revised vin decoders, but their not up yet.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

Sorry, No not a chart. I included the 3 most common, 1's 6's and 8's, in my revised vin decoders, but their not up yet.

Standing by. Once you have that posted I'll start memorizing it.

As an aside, vintage Pontiacs also varied their starting point by engine type (ie, V8s = 100001; L6 = 600001).

K

[Cash3481]

Bruce, Kieth and All...
I have a meeting scheduled (lunch) with my friend to describe and explain the database Id like to do. He will also have it pull querries for Vins as well to provide a person what their VIN is with out looking up the codes. It will spit out or email the completed Picture and explanation of each position.
Im having an issue with where to place the access database due to the fact that it doesnt play well with the internet and servers. Ill be working that out with him and hopefully Ill be contacting you knowledgable people for some advise in the very near future.
Wish me luck!

[BruthaMan]

Originally Posted by Cash3481

Bruce, Kieth and All...
I have a meeting scheduled (lunch) with my friend to describe and explain the database Id like to do. He will also have it pull querries for Vins as well to provide a person what their VIN is with out looking up the codes. It will spit out or email the completed Picture and explanation of each position.
Im having an issue with where to place the access database due to the fact that it doesnt play well with the internet and servers. Ill be working that out with him and hopefully Ill be contacting you knowledgable perople for some advise in the very near future.
Wish me luck!

If it doesn't work out, let me know. I'm a web applications programmer :-)

[70STOVEBOLT]

Subscribed!!

[Cash3481]

Originally Posted by BruthaMan

If it doesn't work out, let me know. I'm a web applications programmer :-)

Im hoping to have it figured out and ready but I dont have to tell you about whats involved in hosting this on a site. Maybe Ill contqct Josh about the site hosting it. I better get it working before I get the cart in front of the horse. LOL Ill keep you in mind if there are issues.

Originally Posted by 70STOVEBOLT

Subscribed!!

Thanks for checking in, and following along! Ill stay on here while we work on it. Ill be making some contact with board experts this coming week.

[knomadd]

This is interesting. I pulled my 71 vin and, with the use of Bruceman1968's decoder link, found it to be number 5,668 from the Fremont plant. Not very low, but considering the total run, not very high either.

Is there info on how the numbering was done from each plant, or how many plants were producing each year/model? In other words, is my 71 #5668 of the total 32000+ fleetsides, or #5668 out of the Fremont plant?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by knomadd

This is interesting. I pulled my 71 vin and, with the use of Bruceman1968's decoder link, found it to be number 5,668 from the Fremont plant. Not very low, but considering the total run, not very high either.

Is there info on how the numbering was done from each plant, or how many plants were producing each year/model? In other words, is my 71 #5668 of the total 32000+ fleetsides, or #5668 out of the Fremont plant?

VIN sequences are plant specific.

Said differently, each plant starts at their respective starting point and increments up individually, without regard to the production volume of any other plant.

So to answer your specific question: it's both. It (apparently) is number 5668 ish out of the Fremont plant, and would be part of the total population of 32000 fleetsides produced for the model year.

K

[kenn]

Hello I have CCE 142 F 309111 Grant H Denton bought it new on 1-7-72.
I am the 4th owner and have all the paperwork.
Thanks all.

[knomadd]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

VIN sequences are plant specific.

Said differently, each plant starts at their respective starting point and increments up individually, without regard to the production volume of any other plant.

So to answer your specific question: it's both. It (apparently) is number 5668 ish out of the Fremont plant, and would be part of the total population of 32000 fleetsides produced for the model year.

K

Thanks for the clarification, Keith. I understand that it would be part of the total, that part is obvious, but not necessarily #5668 out of all 32000+. Put a different way, Fremont's #5668 could be total #12000, assuming each plant started at #1. So just because someone may have #1 from that plant, doesn't necessarily mean they have #1 of total production. Or, different question for same result, Is there a way to tell where a particular truck stands in total production numbers? Do all plants start at #1, or did each plant start at a different number (i.e. Fremont starts at 5000, which would make mine #668 out of that plant)?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by knomadd

So just because someone may have #1 from that plant, doesn't necessarily mean they have #1 of total production.

Exactly. Typically there is a "home plant" or lead plant that starts production first. Then, after the major issues are worked out the launch team travels to the next plant and helps get it going. When I was on the launch team for the squarebody trucks we supported 7 different assembly plants, so you can imagine there is some stagger in start dates because it takes a while to get all those plants up and running.

Originally Posted by knomadd

Or, different question for same result, Is there a way to tell where a particular truck stands in total production numbers?

No - because of the aformentioned explanation that there is no correlation in sequence numbers between plants.

Originally Posted by knomadd

Do all plants start at #1, or did each plant start at a different number (i.e. Fremont starts at 5000, which would make mine #668 out of that plant)?

1001, 10001 and 100001 are the most popular starting points, but not used by all plants all the time. Some plants/model years start at 300001, some at 500001 and it sometimes varies based on engine type (ie, V8 = 100001, L6 = 600001). Sometimes it varies based on nameplate (Chevy = 100001, GMC = 500001). Sometimes they don't re-set and simply continue to roll over to the next number (ie, last 2012 = CU301567, first 2013 = DU301568).

Plus, these combinations are rolling down the same line at the same time, so you might have, in order, as you walk the line back:

Chevy (V8) = 317388
Chevy (L6) = 611454
Chevy (V8) = 317389
GMC (or Buick or Olds or Pontiac or Cadillac) = 509326
Chevy (V8) = 317390
Chevy (V8) = 317391
Chevy (L6) = 611455
GMC (or Buick or Olds or Pontiac or Cadillac) = 509327
etc


Plus - most plants don't build in VIN order. They have a buffer after body shop, and then another buffer after paint, where vehicles can be held for repair or to re-align units based on workload (ie, can't have too many manuals in a row, can't have too many a/c vehicles in a row, can't have too many tripowers in a row, can't have too many sunroofs in a row, etc) or part availability. Fremont and Baltimore are the only plants I can think of that run straight through with no shuffling.

Hopefully you can see now why I always view these "first" and "last" discussions with some skepticism. It's very difficult to determine unless you have the above specifics.

K

[Vintage Windmills]

My 67 GMC K1500 Vin ending digits are C1009A

[knomadd]

Thanks Keith! That's some pretty cool info. I appreciate your input and sharing of your knowledge. I had no idea they worked like that.

[Cash3481]

Kieth,
Really appreciate you input (as well as others) on this thread. It's starting to look like my original thought (capturing early and late vehicles) will be impossible due to the nonspecific starting points.
I am still going to do an automated vin decoder but will need to plan out the "variation" some plants had like 2nd lines in the same plant. The series numbers account for the variation for the most part but as mentioned previously, I'll need to do my research to capture as many differences as possible. I can always have my friend change/modify the decoder but it needs to be as correct as possible from the start.
Again thanks for your input, here and on other insights here on the board.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Cash3481

Kieth,
Really appreciate you input (as well as others) on this thread. It's starting to look like my original thought (capturing early and late vehicles) will be impossible due to the nonspecific starting points.
I am still going to do an automated vin decoder but will need to plan out the "variation" some plants had like 2nd lines in the same plant. The series numbers account for the variation for the most part but as mentioned previously, I'll need to do my research to capture as many differences as possible. I can always have my friend change/modify the decoder but it needs to be as correct as possible from the start.
Again thanks for your input, here and on other insights here on the board.

Thank you; I didn't mean to totally dissuade you since the task is not impossible (just difficult). You will need to know the specific starting point for the model year/nameplate of the truck in question.

Hopefully now you can see why the Corvette guys have it so easy . One product, one nameplate, one assembly plant - makes the task much more straightforward.

K