are all 350 blocks the same?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Now Ya tell me!

Well, it just dawned on me after I read leftybass's post about the cam being the only difference, and you pulled the trigger on that 290 pretty fast like the next day. Have they shipped it yet? Maybe you could cancel.

I think you will be happy with the 290, however; it will be fun to drive.

Hang in there speed.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Well, it just dawned on me after I read leftybass's post about the cam being the only difference, and you pulled the trigger on that 290 pretty fast like the next day. Have they shipped it yet? Maybe you could cancel.

I think you will be happy with the 290, however; it will be fun to drive.

Hang in there speed.

Thanks, yea, it's almost here, in my hands Tuesday. It's got to be better than my tired 350 and it was pretty strong still.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Thanks, yea, it's almost here, in my hands Tuesday. It's got to be better than my tired 350 and it was pretty strong still.

Would you like to make a cheap improvement on the 290?

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Would you like to make a cheap improvement on the 290?

What kind of improvement?

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Would you like to make a cheap improvement on the 290?

You have me in great suspense! What's the cheap upgrade? I'm ready! I can take it!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

You have me in great suspense! What's the cheap upgrade? I'm ready! I can take it!

That is an 8:1 compression engine. Put in fel-pro 1094 steel shim head gaskets and you will be up to about 8.4:1 compression plus the GM engine is .025" piston to deck clearance that with the .015" you end up with .040" quench and that is ideal and actually makes the engine more ping resistant than the 8:1.

That big cam needs every tiny bit of compression you can add to it. You won't need any other new parts than the head gaskets themselves.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

You have me in great suspense! What's the cheap upgrade? I'm ready! I can take it!

You will need to order 2 of either one of these, the 1094s need to go on with nothing and the 7733s need spray sealer like copper coat. Simply brush off the original head bolts and give them a coating of paste teflon sealer and torque them to 65-70 'lbs. If the bolts thread in easy go 65, if they have some drag go a little more but don't exceed 70. I would not chase the threads as all they have on them is the factory sealer and it should be pretty soft still.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/m...5%2B4294877869

The 1094s are good for iron or aluminum heads, the 7733s are all you need for cast iron on cast iron. They hold up better than the composition gaskets and never need re-torque.

Do you know how to adjust the tappets while the engine is still out of the car? Let me know if you do this and if you need any more help.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

You will need to order 2 of either one of these, the 1094s need to go on with nothing and the 7733s need spray sealer like copper coat. Simply brush off the original head bolts and give them a coating of paste teflon sealer and torque them to 65-70 'lbs. If the bolts thread in easy go 65, if they have some drag go a little more but don't exceed 70. I would not chase the threads as all they have on them is the factory sealer and it should be pretty soft still.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/m...5%2B4294877869

The 1094s are good for iron or aluminum heads, the 7733s are all you need for cast iron on cast iron. They hold up better than the composition gaskets and never need re-torque.

Do you know how to adjust the tappets while the engine is still out of the car? Let me know if you do this and if you need any more help.

Are those gaskets thinner increasing compression or ? What kind of improvement would I get? I was under the impression from all I've read that I won't need to adjust the valves, am I wrong? I looked up GMs instructions on the engine and they don't mention adjusting them, or are you talking if I change head gaskets?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

You have me in great suspense! What's the cheap upgrade? I'm ready! I can take it!

I know you probably don't want to bust into the new engine, but isn't the warranty void anyway? Get-r-done.

You are taking an engine and raising the compression .4 plus taking an engine with no effective quench and turning it into an engine with ideal quench. That means more power, better fuel efficiency, lower tailpipe emissions.

Win Win

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Are those gaskets thinner increasing compression or ? What kind of improvement would I get? I was under the impression from all I've read that I won't need to adjust the valves, am I wrong? I looked up GMs instructions on the engine and they don't mention adjusting them, or are you talking if I change head gaskets?

Yes, only if you change the head gaskets.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Are those gaskets thinner increasing compression or ? What kind of improvement would I get? I was under the impression from all I've read that I won't need to adjust the valves, am I wrong? I looked up GMs instructions on the engine and they don't mention adjusting them, or are you talking if I change head gaskets?

GM head gaskets are .028" or .041" thick, not sure which one they put on the 290. The fel-pro steel shim gaskets are .015".

[leftybass209]

Bumping the compression is a great way to help that engine make more power. I did it myself by having the heads shaved and using thin head gaskets and used a 214/224 old school grind cam, but I'm trying to squeeze as much reliability and longevity out of it before an LS swap. I estimate roughly 310 hp and between 350-375 ft lbs of torque. I think that highly expensive can is there way of justifying the power increase while having a warranty. When all is said and done it's a sealed motor that "shouldn't" leak. Money well spent I bet.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Bumping the compression is a great way to help that engine make more power. I did it myself by having the heads shaved and using thin head gaskets and used a 214/224 old school grind cam, but I'm trying to squeeze as much reliability and longevity out of it before an LS swap. I estimate roughly 310 hp and between 350-375 ft lbs of torque. I think that highly expensive can is there way of justifying the power increase while having a warranty. When all is said and done it's a sealed motor that "shouldn't" leak. Money well spent I bet.

Yeah, they are selling a number. Not sure if they use different valve springs on that engine, I don't think they do.

Obviously, I like your cam choice.

Wow think what a difference a set of modern 64cc aluminum heads would make on a 290HP with that big cam that it has and the extra compression the heads would offer! Close to 100HP? I'd expect vortecs to add 60-80HP on that particular application as well.

[paulbrgr9999]

I like this thread. And I have a question? Please know that I am not a trained mechanic or very experienced mechanically.

Been pulling around a toy hauler with my 70 c20. 350, turbo 350, 410 rear.

I would like to have the engine rebuilt for towing (torque?). I want reliability and the ability to use 87 octane fuel. I dont want a hot rod.

What would be recommended?


Thanks

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

Bumping the compression is a great way to help that engine make more power. I did it myself by having the heads shaved and using thin head gaskets and used a 214/224 old school grind cam, but I'm trying to squeeze as much reliability and longevity out of it before an LS swap. I estimate roughly 310 hp and between 350-375 ft lbs of torque. I think that highly expensive can is there way of justifying the power increase while having a warranty. When all is said and done it's a sealed motor that "shouldn't" leak. Money well spent I bet.

I've got basically the same engine/heads except I have flat top forged pistons. Never realized how much power I was leaving on the table until I put headers, big air cleaner and custom curved distributor on it. I forget the casting number on my heads, they are supposed to be 76cc but they are 79.5cc as tested. They are ported, bowl hogged, 1.965 intake and 1.625 exhaust (os rebuilder valves also with .015os stems). Those valves are designed to allow for worn guides and seats, the valve guides only need to be reamed for installation plus 3 angle valve job. My CR is 8.7:1. I intend to install the 214-224-112 cam when I go to the SWB frame.

Not accounting for the port work and using an 882 head with OS valves, according to desktop dyno (knock-free gas, ideal fuel/spark curves), the current setup with 210-210-110 crane energizer (IVO 106), I have potential to make 330HP @ 5,000 and 387 TQ @ 3500.

With the 214-224-112 (IVO 108), it says I have the potential to make 345HP @ 5,500 and 384 TQ @ 4,000. If I advance the cam another 3' (IVO @ 105'), I get my 387 TQ back @ 4,000 and my HP peak of 340 @ 5,000.

If you want me to desktop dyno your engine, send me your bore/stroke/head volume or CR, valve size, cam specs (I already know that), exhaust specifics, intake/carb and I'll dial you in. If your heads have been flowed, I can enter those specs as well.

I did a "guesstimate" with 9:1 comp (to account for thin gaskets and head milling), 750 carb with dual plane (Q-jet?), small tube headers with mufflers and came up with a potential for 335HP @ 5,000 and 380TQ @ 4,000. Disregard where it says cam name, I'm too lazy to change it I needed a title so I gave it that but entered correct specs. I used my 882 head file, they should be close to the 624s you probably have unless they have been ported.

[SierraMtns]

Wow... Mechanicallman that's an awesome program you have. I need to send you some info on my little 283 and see what you come up with

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by SierraMtns

Wow... Mechanicallman that's an awesome program you have. I need to send you some info on my little 283 and see what you come up with

PM me

[AirSpeed]

Got my engine in my shop. Trying to decide on leaving the stock valve covers or use the chrome off my old engine. Either way it's beautiful to me!

[AirSpeed]

I've got an old distributor I want to use to prime the oil pump, what do I need to do to it to use it? Or is there another way without buying a special pump prime tool? Thanks!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

I've got an old distributor I want to use to prime the oil pump, what do I need to do to it to use it? Or is there another way without buying a special pump prime tool? Thanks!

Remove the gear, take the shaft out, remove the advance plate, cut the top end off and weld a 3/8 socket onto it. Put the shaft back in the body and you are ready to prime.

Always use the body. You can actually pump some oil without it but it's difficult to build oil pressure as the body goes through an oil main and hard to keep the shaft on the oil shaft, and has to be there to stop a huge internal leak.

[AirSpeed]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Remove the gear, take the shaft out, remove the advance plate, cut the top end off and weld a 3/8 socket onto it. Put the shaft back in the body and you are ready to prime.

Always use the body. You can actually pump some oil without it but it's difficult to build oil pressure as the body goes through an oil main and hard to keep the shaft on the oil shaft, and has to be there to stop a huge internal leak.

Thanks! I'll do just that!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by AirSpeed

Thanks! I'll do just that!

Back in the early 90's I finally put HEI in my 72 and that old points distributor got hacked!

I also took the large upper part and busted it off with a hammer then ground the edges off just to make it more compact, but had to leave the upper bushing in of course.

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by paulbrgr9999

I would like to have the engine rebuilt for towing (torque?). I want reliability and the ability to use 87 octane fuel. I dont want a hot rod.

Good point. How do to you set up a 350 for max. torque at the lowest rpms? This is not discussed often, you usually hear torque and HP figures at unrealistically high rpms.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by paulbrgr9999

I like this thread. And I have a question? Please know that I am not a trained mechanic or very experienced mechanically.

Been pulling around a toy hauler with my 70 c20. 350, turbo 350, 410 rear.

I would like to have the engine rebuilt for towing (torque?). I want reliability and the ability to use 87 octane fuel. I dont want a hot rod.

What would be recommended?


Thanks

12cc Hypereutectic D dish pistons with 1.561" compression height.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ue...make/chevrolet

Healthy RV style cam
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...make/chevrolet

Delphi lifters
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-BBC-283-...4151e7&vxp=mtr

Vortec heads with fel-pro 1094 head gaskets
Vortec dual plane intake

Per Desktop Dyno:
With stock 2.25" outlet Ram's Horn ex manifolds and muffled dual exhaust, you will get around 382lbs @ 3,000 and 311HP @ 5,000 with a fairly flat torque curve.
(356TQ @ 2,000, 368 @ 2,500, 382 @ 3,000, 380 @ 3500, 369 @ 4,000, and 353 @ 4,500).

With small tube headers and muffled dual exhaust, you will get around 405lbs TQ @ 3500 and 347HP @ 5,000 with a very flat torque curve of nearly 400lbs from 2,000 to 4,500.
(388TQ @ 2,000 and 395 @ 2500, 400 @ 3,000, 405 @ 3,500, 402 @ 4,000, and 390 @ 4,500).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hedman-69010...2ea530&vxp=mtr

If you are towing a lot of weight, get the headers. Either way, this will be a very docile engine that idles really smooth, very responsive, and lots of guts. It will act like a big inch stock engine in a small engine package.

Headers or no headers: How much torque do you want?
Headers won't make it a hot rod, and the Hedman mid-length headers don't hang down and can be spliced into an existing dual exhaust system.

Ram's horns are the best production exhaust manifolds ever made for the SBC. They don't compare with headers, but are better than all other cast iron manifolds and are super reliable. However, if you use good headers, good header bolts, good header gaskets, and good high temp (red silicone) spark plug boots, you won't have to mess with them after the first bolt re-torque.

If you have a/c and want headers, you will need Hooker's A/C compressor bracket it's just over 50 bucks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hooker-Heade...efabe5&vxp=mtr

Other ways to go for extra torque that are less expensive, let me know if you need more info.