Carbureted ls

[HemiChallenger71]

Thanks!

[crazy longhorn]

Oh man.....Me likey! That looks like a very solid old ride those cars were all over the road, when I was a kid...you just don't see em much any more! Longhorn

[Wasted Income]

I just popped in here to say that carb'ing an LS is like giving it brain-damage.

Flame on.

lol

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

I just popped in here to say that carb'ing an LS is like giving it brain-damage.

Flame on.

lol

I'm a HUGE proponent of self-inflicted brain damage, and even I won't carb an LS.

[HemiChallenger71]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

I just popped in here to say that carb'ing an LS is like giving it brain-damage.

Flame on.

lol

Agreed, sometimes its just easier though.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by HemiChallenger71

Agreed, sometimes its just easier though.

For the sake of the greater good, I'd like to pose that its NOT easier, in MOST situation and for MOST goals. The carb debate will rage on, and there are a few circumstances in which carb makes sense...

Lets do a point-counterpoint for fun:

• Point; Carb is easier because of less wiring (aka the "3 wires to run" or "5 wires to run philosophy")
• Counterpoint; To take advantage of the growing list of non-efi features that the ECM controls (including transmissions), its ever-more commonplace to run the ECM. This instantly balloons the number of wires being used. Custom harnesses for efi make the total number of wires you actually need to terminate less than 5-7.

• Point; *related to item #1* Doing the harness work is hard, or expensive.
• Counterpoint; While DIY'ing the harness is time consuming, its not by most definitions "hard" and Sites like Lt1swap have proliferated the instructions. The cost of a harness usually comes in line with the costs of running the MSD module. It will actually be cheaper if you find yourself needing a TCM (and you won't be ANY further ahead if you keep the ECM as described above for gauge/sensor function)

• Point; Carb'd ls's make great (read: better) power. Yea, we've ALL read the SAME hotrod or Super Chevy articles that everyone references.
• Counterpoint; What the articles don't tend to reflect on is that its all a question of flow and fuel. Going carb requires the use of a carb-style manifold, which means there is no truly stock-for-stock way to compare them. The carb will have a leg up in direct airflow, and thus peak horsepower.
• It also can't account for repeatablility, driveability, and other less-quantifiable factors...many of which would lean to EFI. The comparison would have to be done to an EFI setup which could flow the same CFM, to know if inch-for-inch one setup gained an advantage. You would also need a way to account for WHO tuned the EFI engine, as 3 tunes could prove drastically different results (this is both a positive and negative thing, which I can totally acknowledge)

Its just a start, but I think it brings insight to the way I look at things.

Heck, toss me ya'lls "Point" for going carb, I'll see if I can Counterpoint you with Efi.

[HemiChallenger71]

For my swap: I'm running a manual transmission, I already have a carb, I know how to tune a carb. Only thing I would need to make it work is the intake and ignition controller. A friend has a dual plane edelbrock lying around I can get cheap. Fuel injection WILL cost me more but I am limited to a factory hood line.

[Wasted Income]

Those are pretty good points.

[crazy longhorn]

MONIES! For me, it was simple....on the ls swap, it was a matter of when I wanted to drive the old gal? The old truck , needing an upgrade in the wiring system,& the cost of a dedicated fuel system, warped intake/dirty injectors, & needing knock sensors/tune....it would have cost more ! I also run a stick shift (6spd Richmond). Not here to argue....build your truck like you want it...I did Longhorn

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

Those are pretty good points.

On your 72 blazer.....why are you running a Holley EFI, when every one claims that the GM stuff is the best? longhorn

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

On your 72 blazer.....why are you running a Holley EFI, when every one claims that the GM stuff is the best? longhorn.

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

maybe?

[crazy longhorn]

I guess , that it comes down to budget, & what you want? Some of us are building "bucks down" rides, & have to do what we can. This sort of goes back to the resto guys vs the hotrod crowd....he!! all the trucks are cool! For me , its easier to dump 50 grand into my house repairs, vs a truck /car/boat, ect. Happy wife= happy life The truck is just a toy... longhorn

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

On your 72 blazer.....why are you running a Holley EFI, when every one claims that the GM stuff is the best? longhorn

Haha who says GM EFI is the best?? Nobody I know.
I run it for the ability to tune real-time, instead of having to datalog, stop, shut off, make changes, reflash, key off, restart, rinse, repeat.

I also use it for the built in electronic boost control, water meth control, closed loop via wideband O2, ability to run Low-Z injectors, ability to run 16 injectors with a dual fuel system down the road, and incredible data-logging capabilities, none of which the factory ECU offer.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by Wasted Income

Haha who says GM EFI is the best?? Nobody I know.
I run it for the ability to tune real-time, instead of having to datalog, stop, shut off, make changes, reflash, key off, restart, rinse, repeat.

I also use it for the built in electronic boost control, water meth control, closed loop via wideband O2, ability to run Low-Z injectors, ability to run 16 injectors with a dual fuel system down the road, and incredible data-logging capabilities, none of which the factory ECU offer.

I tune realtime in Hp Tuners, its been allowed for a while (using a custom OS tho, not the GM one).

I however can't run 16 injectors.

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

I tune realtime in Hp Tuners, its been allowed for a while (using a custom OS tho, not the GM one).

I however can't run 16 injectors.

That is pretty cool. That would be nice, and I wish that I could do that with my EFI Live setup, but there is really zero comparison with the GM ecu and the Holley...or a BigStuff...or a Megasquirt....or an AEM....or an XFI.

I'm not saying that the GM ecu is bad. It's not. I used it on the last N/A truck I built, and it works GREAT for that. However anything I build from now on that is to be boosted or sprayed is getting a Holley

[BR3W CITY]

The newer it gets, the more they offer. The e67 allows more than my e38. Rumormill has it that the ECU's in the upcoming z06's can do wild stuff (and not the bad **** ppl read about). as well as huge upcoming improvements in the stock systems ability to handle boost, in prep for the 90%+ likelyhood the next gen ZR1's will be TT.

[crazy longhorn]

Check me....I cant win this fight? No biggie? I get the B,FING ****, for that carb? You 2 boys have fun playing...rock on dogs, I will find a better place to play? For me, I am flat azz tired of the BULL ****, from the Moders/ rodders vs the resto crowd.....or the guys that have too GD many dollars , to just , wipe there own azz with? You all figure it , if you can.....longhorn

[HemiChallenger71]

Drunken post?

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

Check me....I cant win this fight? No biggie? I get the B,FING ****, for that carb? You 2 boys have fun playing...rock on dogs, I will find a better place to play? For me, I am flat azz tired of the BULL ****, from the Moders/ rodders vs the resto crowd.....or the guys that have too GD many dollars , to just , wipe there own azz with? You all figure it , if you can.....longhorn

WTF happened here? What does the restoration crowd have to do with LS swaps at all?

I'm so lost it hurts. What fight? Why is someone bufu'ing a carb?

[Liz]

He does this every so often when he has been drinking and usually around the full moon. Means no harm really. Good guy, I like him. Anyway he's on a short break from the site, and Im sure will be his old self when he returns

[BigDan3131]

"It also can't account for repeatablility, driveability, and other less-quantifiable factors...many of which would lean to EFI. The comparison would have to be done to an EFI setup which could flow the same CFM, to know if inch-for-inch one setup gained an advantage. You would also need a way to account for WHO tuned the EFI engine, as 3 tunes could prove drastically different results (this is both a positive and negative thing, which I can totally acknowledge)."


The above is just whatever...It will go on until the end of time. If I had as much money to blow on rides as Wasted does then yes I would have a full FAST FI setup but those that don't have the kind of money make due. To the guy who just couldn't get his 3310 to work, did you ever go and have the truck dyno'd where they could adjust everything to make it work properly? I bet you didn't, did you ever think to send it out to say The Carb Shop to have it tuned to your motor and specs and what you wanted out of it? I doubt it, more than likely it was peer pressure from your buddies that have/had zero experience with a carb and gave you sh*t until you caved and put the EFI back on.

If your carb is jetted properly with both fuel and air bleeds and you have your own timing curve set up in the MSD the only reason to ever have any issue would be if you moved to or where driving in vastly different conditions say above 5000 feet in which your carb would be off and your power would be too. I seriously doubt that many of us here really take extra long trips every year by about half the time driving in those oddball conditions.

The trans game, well you don't have to run an E series transmission with the LS series engines you can pretty much use anything with them. If you like having the ease of just using the E series with a carb 95% of all the controllers are around $600 now or buy the Black Box and manually shift it for $200.

I'm done, no more about this subject. You do it your way I'll do it mine...

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Liz

He does this every so often when he has been drinking and usually around the full moon. Means no harm really. Good guy, I like him. Anyway he's on a short break from the site, and Im sure will be his old self when he returns

LOL. Thanks for the background.

[dec010974]

Hello bigdan3131. I hope all is well. We all have different ways to skin the cat. Aod92 asked the forum for input on a particular subject. And I gave him my opinion on that particular subject. I'm new to the whole LSx, hot rod Harry, over haulin' car build thing (7 years). The 3310 was tuned, or shall I say adjusted, by reputable carb guy, at least I thought. He has one of the Baddest, big block chevelles in south Florida. But again that means nothing. I felt that in my particular situation, my situation only, it would be best to for me to run the LSx FI. I never sent the 3310 to a professional. I never had it tuned on a dyno. Also, where were you when I asked on this same thread for insight? So basically, I used my basic intuition. If I had some real carb experience or had the resources, May be I would of kept it. For me, I used sound thinking and judgement and decided I would have better success with FI because I wanted to enjoy my hot rod. At the end of the day we all want to fun and enjoy our rides. Most of are willing to achieve that goal the best way we know how. Good luck. Thanks bigdan3131. Next time around I'll sent the 3310 carb to the carb shop. Can u please send their info.

[crazy longhorn]

Originally Posted by Liz

He does this every so often when he has been drinking and usually around the full moon. Means no harm really. Good guy, I like him. Anyway he's on a short break from the site, and Im sure will be his old self when he returns

Thanks Liz, your man is lucky to have an understanding gal like you Yes the "firewater" does kick me too damn hard at times! I also "bark " at the moon....was born 1/2 crazy ,I guess? I am sorry for the bs that I made here, but understand, it has not all come from here! I catch it , for that carbed fuelie, all around? One of the mods here....no names, said that it was stupid, to put a carb on that engine? To me it is about budget, & also the look....I like old school? Longhorn

[bpatrol]

Hey AOD92
I think the best and most efficient way to figure out which way to go depends on what you get.
If you aquire a complete engine and transmission with all acc and harness and ecm, I believe its cheaper to just convert to fuel injection.

Now if you just have a engine well it can go either way. You don't need a computer to run a transmission if you go manual or a 700r4 or th350. they bolt up with minor mods.
So its really up to you both work well.
I have done both, have a ly6 f.i. in my 67 Camaro and love it but also had a 5.7 carbed ls1 with a 700r4 in a 67 c10 loved it too I had no issues with either when setup properly.
I am a tinkerer and picked up a fast ez efi I will be bolting it up soon.
Good luck either way. don't worry about people with negative comments one way or the other, that's why we do CUSTOM builds.
Good luck and post it up
bpatrol