new low budget engine build

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by tcrist

My valve covers are blank. Never thought about GMC letters on or in them before.

I might just think of a way to emboss them instead of welding.

What do you think would be best. Emboss the letters being recessed into the valve cover or emboss the letter out?

I was just getting ready to make a post to suggest getting imaginative with the lettering; my haphazard idea to stencil the letters on was lame.

I like the embossing idea it's elegant. The stock steel valve covers would be a good set for the embossing, I would think but I know nothing of embossing metal. I'm thinking aluminum can be embossed as well but I don't know much about it.

I do believe that you could contact this company and buy a embossing die with the letters "GMC".
http://www.columbiamt.com/CMT-Markin...sing_Dies.html

I think better to emboss out, otherwise I think they might be hard to clean but hey what are q-tips for anyway? No, don't stick them in your ears LOL

Different die for stamping inward vs outward.

I wonder if embossing a valve cover after it's already stamped out would cause any distortion? I don't know if they do it after the cover is stamped out or part of the initial stamp.

Imagine GMC stamped in the middle of the stock covers.

[tcrist]

You would have to have a decent order of valve covers to have tooling made like that.

Embossing one or to here or there would be fairly easy. It could be done with just sheet metal sheet on a flattening die. If I had an extra set of valve covers I would give it a go.

Just so I don't sound like I am talking out my arse, I am and engineer/programmer for a large metal shop. We do precision sheet metal fab which includes punching, lasering using a 6 axis 3D laser, stamping and machining.

I might try lasering a quick emboss tool and just emboss a thin piece of flat sheet metal to see what it looks like.

[SierraMtns]

Originally Posted by tcrist

You would have to have a decent order of valve covers to have tooling made like that.

Embossing one or to here or there would be fairly easy. It could be done with just sheet metal sheet on a flattening die. If I had an extra set of valve covers I would give it a go.

Just so I don't sound like I am talking out my arse, I am and engineer/programmer for a large metal shop. We do precision sheet metal fab which includes punching, lasering using a 6 axis 3D laser, stamping and machining.

I might try lasering a quick emboss tool and just emboss a thin piece of flat sheet metal to see what it looks like.

Hey Terry, PM heading your way.

[72kool]

If you do it, let us know and get some pics. Would love to see how they turn out. If it works well might just have you do em instead haha

[tcrist]

I think that it would be best to try and replicate as close as possible the stock GMC font.
Unless you all think that a different font would look better on the valve covers.

My valve covers has about a 2" wide flat surface on the top. Do you think that the emboss should stretch out longer on that surface or keep the font standard and centered on the valve cover?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

If you do it, let us know and get some pics. Would love to see how they turn out. If it works well might just have you do em instead haha

Hey 72kool-

Buy these and attach them to your valve covers. Maybe paint them black and the valve covers whatever color the GMC engine was for contrast. Just put a little silicone on the screws so it don't leak.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-1948-19...6d99fe&vxp=mtr

[Savidio44]

Here is an article that you might find helpful for your rebuild. I built a very similar 350 for my '67 Camaro. Vortec heads, Performer manifold, Comp cam 480/480 110 degree lobe separation, 650 Holly. Fast, streetable, nice lope from the cam at idle. Nothing fancy but it works for me.





http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...k-chevy-build/

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Savidio44

Here is an article that you might find helpful for your rebuild. I built a very similar 350 for my '67 Camaro. Vortec heads, Performer manifold, Comp cam 480/480 110 degree lobe separation, 650 Holly. Fast, streetable, nice lope from the cam at idle. Nothing fancy but it works for me.http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...k-chevy-build/

Nice article. Only thing about using a retail rebuilt short-block is that MOST of the rebuilders use rebuilder parts. Now, these parts are quality, durable parts but they are made specifically for the rebuilder industry. SO, the pistons have usually a .020" lower compression height to allow for a block mill IF needed. Most blocks do NOT need it so you will get an engine with around .045+" deck clearance and add that with whatever head gasket you use and you lose all your quench, even with the article's steel shim it's .060" and with composition it's .084"; significant quench starts to degrade at .050" and is all but gone at around .060".

This is why the article's engine only made 9.1:1 -9.15:1 compression.

However, 72kool's original 350 short block will have .025" deck clearance and if you combine it with a felpro steel shim head gasket .015" that gets you a perfect .040" piston to head clearance and robust quench action plus between 9.4-9.5:1 compression and that all adds up to more power.

Again, if you use the thick composition head gasket even with the .025" deck, you get .064" piston to head and you lose all your quench.

A 9.45:1 CR engine with good quench action is more ping resistant and fuel tolerant than a 9.1:1 engine with little to no quench action.

I think the 72kool will be able to use a smaller cam and come really close to his goal of 350HP as long as he uses the steel shim gasket, Lunati VooDo or GM 330HP cam, and 1 5/8" primary tube headers.

Bet your Camaro runs really well.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Savidio44

Here is an article that you might find helpful for your rebuild. I built a very similar 350 for my '67 Camaro. Vortec heads, Performer manifold, Comp cam 480/480 110 degree lobe separation, 650 Holly. Fast, streetable, nice lope from the cam at idle. Nothing fancy but it works for me.http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...k-chevy-build/

Here's another good article on this subject, in this case they are dyno testing a 350HO 330HP. It gets more than 350HP on the dyno with a bigger carb (750CFM) with the stock 330HP cam. (72kool has a quadrajet and it's at least 750 CFM). It's 212 int @.050"-222 ex @.050" duration with 112LS, .435" int lift and .460" ex lift with 1.5 rockers. The 330HP also has the lower compression pistons and it's 9.1:1 CR. Don't let the picture showing log ex manifolds fool you, if you read the fine print on the dyno data all the tests were done using 1 5/8" primary tube headers.

I have one of these engines and that cam works just fine with the wimpy vortec valvesprings. These springs, albeit not real strong, are very durable. No need to get stiffer springs in this case as long as the springs have not been abused, these springs last a long time and are easy on the cam lobes particularly during break-in.

[Savidio44]

This article really hit the nail on the head for me. Budget conscious but will generate in excess of 350 HP easily as the OP desired. I had a 750 cfm Holly on it and swapped it out for a 650 cfm Holly. I rarely run it a high RPM's and I felt it didn't really need a bigger carb. Lots of torque too, which is a lot more important for truck performance. Those Vortec heads really work!

[tcrist]

I never messed with the Vortec heads. I am guessing that they are a direct replacement for the older 70's heads just with either a better flow, chamber size, valve sizes or all of the above?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by tcrist

I never messed with the Vortec heads. I am guessing that they are a direct replacement for the older 70's heads just with either a better flow, chamber size, valve sizes or all of the above?

Not a direct direct replacement. They do not have the t-stat bypass passage the intersects on the passenger side front of the block under the head bolt and above the dowel pin that goes to the suction side of the water pump on the passenger side just beneath the lower bolt, so you must have some kind of t-stat bypass or you will crack the heads.

Needs Vortec style manifold and bolts.

You could use the original head bolts, but I would not re-use them on anything. A cheap set of $35.00 GM replacements have better shoulders.

64cc chambers better due to re-located spark plug closer to the exhaust valve with an iron pad to keep it hot promoting faster burn plus the chamber is heart shaped with more quench area. This will not help much unless you use D dish pistons and that would be ideal for these heads.

Ports flow better due to raised runner and port configuration in respect to combustion chamber entry.

Valve sizes traditional 1.94" intake and 1.5" exhaust.

No exhaust cross-over for the intake so hot air choke will not work and EGR would require external exhaust gas supply. Cold climates with carburetors might benefit from a heated EFE grid.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by tcrist

I never messed with the Vortec heads. I am guessing that they are a direct replacement for the older 70's heads just with either a better flow, chamber size, valve sizes or all of the above?

Here's a pic of the chamber.

[BOZO]

I stumbled across an alternate low buck approach to refurbishing heads about 10 years ago when trying to keep my DD on the road with limited funds, and my local engine rebuilder turned me onto it. I bought a full set of .010 over valves ($88) and the proper clearanced reamer ($18). Reamed out the old guides and lapped the valves with a drill and installed new seals. Of coarse this is only if your heads aren't totally trashed and need reground. I was able to do this with minimal tools in my garage and the heads are still doing daily duty after 10 years for less than $120.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by BOZO

I stumbled across an alternate low buck approach to refurbishing heads about 10 years ago when trying to keep my DD on the road with limited funds, and my local engine rebuilder turned me onto it. I bought a full set of .010 over valves ($88) and the proper clearanced reamer ($18). Reamed out the old guides and lapped the valves with a drill and installed new seals. Of coarse this is only if your heads aren't totally trashed and need reground. I was able to do this with minimal tools in my garage and the heads are still doing daily duty after 10 years for less than $120.

The guides in the Vortec heads rarely wear out, and are tighter from the factory; I believe this started around the time they started making the centerbolt valve cover heads. The heads in my 88 Formula 350 had 265,000 miles on them and the guides were perfect so I just replaced the valves. Guide clearance on older GM heads sucks even when "new".

I did the same thing on some older heads, only the valves I used are .015" oversized stem and the valve faces are also .025" larger to allow for worn valve seats. The valves in my heads are actually 1.965" intake and 1.625" ex.

These are "rebuilder" valves and are hard to buy retail.

I had to buy mine from a builder, and they cost me at least twice what you paid. Could you please tell me where you got a full set for $88.00?

[72kool]

What is the best year/ vehicle to get vortec heads from ?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

What is the best year/ vehicle to get vortec heads from ?

96-99 pickups. Not sure of other applications, I think there might be some others made after that but I don't think there are a lot of them after 99.

Like I said it would be good to get the heads, valve covers and rockers off the same engine.

[72kool]

Quick question, whats a sure fit headers for these trucks? Im thinking bout custom headers but wanted to know what everybody else is running

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Quick question, whats a sure fit headers for these trucks? Im thinking bout custom headers but wanted to know what everybody else is running

Hooker. Kinda pricey but custom headers are SUPER pricey. I have the platinum ceramics with 1 5/8" primary tubes. Hooker has a factory style a/c bracket that fits and is the only one I've seen. It used to come with.

[Redline novdog]

pulling 1 horse per cube is not that hard. Gm and numerous hotrodders have done it. The gasoline engine is basically a big air pump.If it were me I would take the heads you have to a local machine shop get the intakes opened up to 2.02 bring the heads home grind the bowls(below the valve seats) gasket match intake and exhaust.Take back to machine shop install new valves(at least 3 angle grind) and higher lift valve springs.Good intake/cam/headers and your there.Been there done it!Gives you good G's back when on the loud/load pedal!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Redline novdog

pulling 1 horse per cube is not that hard. Gm and numerous hotrodders have done it. The gasoline engine is basically a big air pump.If it were me I would take the heads you have to a local machine shop get the intakes opened up to 2.02 bring the heads home grind the bowls(below the valve seats) gasket match intake and exhaust.Take back to machine shop install new valves(at least 3 angle grind) and higher lift valve springs.Good intake/cam/headers and your there.Been there done it!Gives you good G's back when on the loud/load pedal!

He's using the stock bottom end with around 12.5cc dish pistons.

[Redline novdog]

you are right mechaniclalman. I would imagine a 10 thousanth mill and steel head gaskets w copper coat would do the trick!

[72kool]

Not to throw this thread off topic, but for future reference, would a serp. System be worth the money,is it recommended due to the power increase or dont mess with whats not broken?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Not to throw this thread off topic, but for future reference, would a serp. System be worth the money,is it recommended due to the power increase or dont mess with whats not broken?

Are you running p/s and a/c? Do you have a good p/s pump, alternator and a/c compressor?

The serp systems have the driver's alt and passenger a/c just like our pickups. Many articles on serp installation one was just brought to fruition by Kaptain Kadian.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...ht=serp+system

So read the whole article and see if it's worth it, to you. If you have a 3 or 4 V-belt system you eliminate more drag than with a 1 or 2 V-belt system.

IF you go with Vortec heads, you can get a serpentine setup off 87-95 pickup and you will not have to drill/tap your heads.

Best to go to a u-pull-it junkyard and try to get a full system with fan clutch, whatever you need try to get it all off the same truck.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Not to throw this thread off topic, but for future reference, would a serp. System be worth the money,is it recommended due to the power increase or dont mess with whats not broken?

If you get an alternator that looks like below, you will need one of these from these people, scroll down to page three.
http://www.wiringharness.com/PDFS/FS..._Passenger.pdf
part #37787, plug in, no chopped wires no special wiring needed too easy.

You can use the later model p/s pump or you own, the flow valves interchange to pumps so regardless of pump use the flow valve on your old pump or find an old one that will fit your p/s pressure hose that's for a similar p/u, the return hose already fits.

A/C? Let me know.