48 Chevy COE custom diesel build

[Purcell69]

The wiring is going to be time consuming either way. Your best bet would be to start with the whole harness being able to start and run the engine, and eliminate one wire at a time. This way you can ensue you don't delete a wire needed to start and run the truck. A friend found this out the hard way while converting an old Crown Vic to a race car. He started to lop off what he thought was unneeded wire harness, only to find out the car wouldn't start later. He had to back track and reconnect all the wires and start over.

As far as repurposing unused circuits from the harness for your own needs, yes that can be done so long as the devices done draw more power than the wire size can handle.

-Joe

[47 Fasttoys]

I have to agree with Joe on this one. I'm not sure how the Dodges do it but in my case the CC, ignition, ABS and a few other things run through a Body Control Module (BCM), Good idea to eliminate these things one at a time. I would assume you will not be using the donor steering column nor the safety equipment. If that's the case you may need to have the ECU or PCM (not sure what Dodge calls it) reprogrammed. You may want to start surfing the Dodge conversion web-sights as I'm sure many have done similar swaps. To be honest, I don't know a thing about diesel engines or what engine control system is used.
Rob

[Chance48]

Thanks fellas...I was thinking I may need to check out another forum for those questions. Got any ideas of a forum I should try? I know wiring is way off, but things that concern me I gotta address ASAP or I worry about it. Wiring is my only real fear in this whole build, the rest is just a lot of time, work....and money.

Thanks.

[Purcell69]

Chance, there are two that come to mind that could be helpful, 4BTSwaps.com and DieselTruckResource.com. Both focus primarily on the Dodge/Cummins but address other products as well. 4BT will probably be the most useful, since the focus of the forum is Diesel engine swaps. The 4BT is the same basic engine as what is in your plans, minus 2 cylinders. Some have mechanical injector pumps, others are computer controlled, like yours.

-Joe

[Chance48]

Purcell, thank you very much.

Boy, I've been researching the engine wiring....there are three major components that have to be intact for this engine to run....the harness is huge....gonna be fun. Thanks to the help of people like you all I'll get it done.....without you all I'd prolly never figure it out, haha. Thx

Chance

[Purcell69]

I'm with you Chance. I'm using a 1994 Dodge drivetrain in my 1957. It's a 5.9 gas motor, but the wire harness is a similar mess to what you are dealing with. I'm keeping the fuel injection and rear wheel ABS. I have an aftermarket wire harness to handle all of the body electronics and lights, so I will be thinning out the Dodge harness to the wires required for fuel delivery and engine management. The ABS system has its own computer and a harness that branches from the main for it. Same with the transmission.

You have one advantage over what I am doing, the Cummins engine and drivetrain is a popular swap. Lots of other folks have done it before, so there is knowledge available as far as what is needed to make it run. In my case, not many people swapped a Dodge Magnum series V8 into anything, so there is little information out there for my swap.

[Dieselwrencher]

The engine harness is seperate from the body harness on these ISB engines. You don't need much of the dodge harness at all to run one of these. Now, if you want to use the ABS, 47re trans, and control the OEM AC comp and alt with the PCM, that's a different story. But to run the engine you need only about 7 wires. The ECM is on the side of the engine and stays with it. I wouldn't use the Dodge ABS components because they suck in a dodge and will suck in what ever else you put them in. Just my opinion. I've worked on too many dodges.

Here's some info on wiring up a VP44 ISB.

http://www.competitiondiesel.com/for...ht=vp44+wiring

[Turtleman]

Interesting build going on here... I'm in the process of looking for a COE to convert into my Nursery's delivery truck

[Chance48]

Wrencher,

After some thought, I'm gonna ditch pretty much all of the harness except for the pcm,fpcm, and ecm portion of harness. Gonna stay with the 47re.

I'll be going with a resto mod ac unit, no abs, none of the dodge electronics. Basically just need a key switch and fuse box to light everything up, get the engine fired and shifting like it suppose to. Was thinking I'd use the dodge fuse box just for the ability to power the power train portion through the big multi pin plug in, then have another box for all other things such as lights, ac, etc....

Thanks for the link.

Purcell, I read your whole thread. Looking good. I wanna do a 4wd stovebolt eventually. I got an 04 dodge 3500 4x4 cummins I'm already thinking about transforming, lol...be a few years on that I'd say...

Turtleman, check out hotrodgarage.com....and I've been seeing a few on eBay off and on lately aswell.

[Chance48]

Wrencher, also wanted to ask your opinion.....what you think about deleting the fuel pre heater.? Even on our coldest days down here I don't wait for it to preheat.

[lower50's]

That sounds like a good route to go with the wiring. Dodge harness to run just the motor and trans. It should make trouble shooting easier.

Chance Did you mean www.hotrodgarage.net or .com?

[47 Fasttoys]

Hey Purcell, not to high jack the thread, but you may want to check with the Detail Zone for a conversion harness. I installed a 5.2 Magnum with the factory fuel injection into a '31 Oakland I built a few years ago, the kit was not cheep at $750 but it worked great.
Rob

[Purcell69]

Originally Posted by 47 Fasttoys

Hey Purcell, not to high jack the thread, but you may want to check with the Detail Zone for a conversion harness. I installed a 5.2 Magnum with the factory fuel injection into a '31 Oakland I built a few years ago, the kit was not cheep at $750 but it worked great.
Rob

Thank you for the tip Rob! I will get in touch with them. $750 would be money well spent, since not many of those swaps are around. I could muddle my way through the factory stuff, but that would be a lot of hours spent thinning down which wires could be deleted. Since my build started out with a partially disassembled, non-running motor with wires already removed from sensors, I would be working it the hard way.

-Joe

[Dieselwrencher]

Originally Posted by Chance48

Wrencher, also wanted to ask your opinion.....what you think about deleting the fuel pre heater.? Even on our coldest days down here I don't wait for it to preheat.

Are you talking about the grid heater on the intake or the actual fuel heater in the fuel filter housing? I'm guessing the grid heater. You can delete them. My brother's 92 F-350 does not have one. His timing is set at 22* and that thing will start not plugged in below 20* in 3 revolutions. It amazes me. It's a P-pump 96 215hp engine. 24v's tend to start a little slower due to the electronics needing to see signals and what not. But if your area doesn't get really cold, it isn't a deal breaker. I usually try to get them installed before I fire a truck up and drive it out the door because if I don't do it before I start driving it, there is a good chance it won't get done. That's because it'd be getting driven all the time. Haha

[Chance48]

Lowers, that is correct. I get all crossed up, .com this, .net that....

I figured removing the grid heater was fine. I'm thinking the engine is gonna be mostly visible in my build so I need to have it clean looking.

[Chance48]

Heya fellas,

Got the cab pretty much stopped of what I need. Got the brake/accelerator peddles and bracket out, and the emergency brake assembly. I got over whelmed looking at the wiring, got a little confused aswell so I called diesel conversion specialists with my concerns.

They told me I could let the body harness go, send them the engine/tranny harnesses and they would take care of it. Cost is 500.00-600.00 for them to rebuild my harness. Said that all I would need is a key switch, my positive and grounds, a battery and the engine would run and shift. Catch is I don't wanna spend the money for them to wire it, lol....

I'm thinking I could use the dodge fuse box so that I can plug in the main lug of the engine/tranny harness. This will give me power to it. That way I wouldn't have to rebuild the harness. Just remove the a/c and few other things in that harness that are not needed. Does that sound feasible? Then I would get a wiring kit or build my own for the rest of the truck.

I also had this great idea for my throttle. I was brainstorming...I could mount my throttle on the firewall and just lengthen my throttle wires, then it hit me...my tranny kick down cable....! Is there or are there cables of extended lengths that I could run my kickdown with?? Where would I find something like that?

Cab will be coming off tomorrow. Hope to pull the engine and start mocking up the new cab mounting. Then suspend the engine in its new position and see where it is gonna set in relation to the rear axle.

I wanted to do the air suspension first, but I need to collect some funds first. Suppose I'll mock the cab up a lil high. Ride height is gonna be somewhere between normal and low and aired out a few inch or less from the ground. Gonna be running a classic style 19.5" wheel with a 31" tire then again, maybe I won't mount the cab, or fab mounts yet. Maybe just set it on blocks so I can get my engine placement and commence boxing frame and building engine mounts and such....giving me time to get my air suspension components here first so I can get the body just right....that's my best bet there.

I'll get some pics of the cab removal and mock ups. Should be fun. I'm pumped...gonna start lookin like something other than an old work truck soon. Although, I miss my old work truck!

[Dieselwrencher]

I wouldn't re-use the entire OE harness if I had too. I'd use what I had to to make the 47re shift and that's pretty much it. Now if you do because you're trying to get your best bang for your buck, you probably can use it but you'll be wishing you paid them the cash to do it and not jack with it. Haha There's no need to jack with the throttle wires..... Your APPS, applied pedal position sensor, is bolted to the cylinder head, You will just need to install a really long throttle cable to go from your foot pedal to your apps bracket. Lengthening the wires that far could chabge the resistance and really jack your throttle. It is only a 5v system from the APPS to the ECM. I'd really get your suspension stuff done now and place the cab, engine/trans etc while you build it so you're not re-doing it.

[Chance48]

You are right wrencher. I'll send them the engine harness and I'll do the truck. Sure. Would be sweet to relocate that throttle under the hood and clean that motor up, but I'll take your advice. I need to find or fab a long ass throttle cable....any ideas for me? I could use two cables, one at engine, other at the petal then fill the gap with an open cable....prolly not smartest idea though, haha. Something fling up under there and jam throttle wide open...okay back to work.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Chance

[Dieselwrencher]

You could possibly relocate the assembly by simply taking it off the head and making a bracket and bolting it to the gear housing. Maybe able to hide it next to the frame inside it or something? Could possibly make a cable less of an issue too? I'm betting you could have 12-14" of harness movement in that harness going up to the apps.

[Chance48]

Here she is all stripped down




8197-186F-41B2-91B8-FA1FBD7A0D0D_zpsmf6qccth.jpg[/IMG]






Gotta pull the chassis out and water blast it tomorrow before mocking anything up. Old motor bled all over the place. Gonna order some parts this week....universal bag kit and 4- link parts. Fab up my own brackets.

[Chance48]

This is not a bad price....gonna call and order it tomorrow.

http://www.universalairsuspension.co...uck-p-125.html

And this aswell. I'm new to this kinda stuff but I feel for a heavy truck that will do some towing this setup with pan hard bar is best solution. Like that all bracketry is 3/8".

http://*************/4-link-kits/parallel-4-link-kit


Well, this link won't work...maybe not allowed on this forum??

[47 Fasttoys]

Hey Chance, not trying to tell you what to do .......but, a 5" bag may not be enough for your needs. That Cummins is a load of an engine, 5" is good for a mini truck or a lighter 3100. I would be looking for a 7" or 8" (if it will fit) the larger area of the bag will give a smoother ride at a lower pressure. Force = pressure X area. I'm working on the brackets to install 8" bags all the way around on mine. Check on some of the Dodge forums and see what they suggest. Also, how much of that oil pan sump is filled with oil pump? maybe clip a couple of inches off for ground clearance?
Rob

[Chance48]

Hey 47, I dunno, the engine being mid the load is shared front and back. Also, the front spring cups would have to be majorly overhauled, I don't think it is worth it. The front of this truck is gonna be light so the 5 7/8" bags should be plenty. Now for the back, that's a different story. I'm gonna see if I can sub in some bigger bags. I will use this truck to tow with. I got to get some pics of the bed I'm gonna use. It's a 14 1/2 ft. Original flat bed that was on the coe's chassis. I got some sweet plans for it. So, it is gonna be heavy in the back empty. I'm actually kinda curious about the balance of the truck once it's done.

Years ago I had a truck exactly like this one, I had bought new. I carried really heavy loads with it so I added the air helpers. They actually carried all the load pretty much without a problem. More than I'll ever put this truck through I'm sure. They were same size bags as these, but I'll check and see if I can get a bigger bag for the back so maybe the ride will be a little improved.

Ok, now a few pics of today's progress. I'm really pumped, having a ton of fun with this part. Really enjoyable seeing it coming into its new home on this chassis.

Here I made pressure washing the under side of everything a little easier.


I missed getting pics of the install of cab. Let's just say I won't use the engine crane method again on this cab, unless the fenders are off. It was a pita, once I was started I made it happen.








Here I cut the original rear cab mount off of old chassis and here I was checking it out. The following two pics are of the modified and installed mount. Simple and strong. Two 3/8" bolts through frame each side, 1/4" angle.






In this pic...it is hard to see but if you examine closely you'll see the distance from the upper arm to bottom of cab. I can't set cab any lower. Only way this rig will set on ground is with a really low pro tire, but I'm not concerned with it laying in the dirt. Couple inches air out is perfect.



And finally, with all that said. Wrencher was spot on...by the time you built the tunnel/engine cover if the engine was under the cab it would be right below the dash, and the passenger would have little room for their legs as the turbo would invade that side a good bit. Has to be mid engine imo or not worth it. I momentarily played with the inner cooler up front just getting an idea..... Rad and inner cooler are gonna be the hardest part of this whole build. I'm pretty sure I'm gonna have to have custom rad and cooler for this rig. Gonna have to dig deep for the $$$$ on that I'm sure.

[47 Fasttoys]

Great progress Chance, It's fun when you can start to see the look it will have later. The cab mount set up looks good. Are you gonna need to flare your fenders using the Dodge chassis?
On the radiator/inter-cooler issue: There is a lot of room to be had under the cab, mine lives there with no issues with heat at all. The bottom of the radiator and the bottom of the oil pan are at the same height. I am using the donor unit and I have removable covers should I need to access the front of the engine or radiator.
Rob

[Chance48]

47, thanks for compliment. I made the mount removable from frame so it can be blasted and painted and chose angle so it can't rot from inside out. I bought some tubing for the build but nay not use it. I get anal about rust collectors. Of course, the tubing will be here long after I'm gone so it's 6 of 1 half a dozen of another. I want to get buried in the shop today but I think the wife is on tilt with me and my growing obsession!! Sure wanted to get the front mounts in!! I'll feel her out, don't wanna push to hard, haha.


my rad is 4' wide and the innercooler is wider yet. No matter where I put it gonna have to have a narrower unit built. I'm guessing add some rows of cores and do a double pass, narrowing the rad up. I don't think any of the aftermarket "cheaper type" gasser aimed rads will be sufficient at cooling this diesel. I thought about using two of the together?!... Haha.I surfed a bit and found a ford innercooler that may work. It may can go back in front of the engine like you have your rad. This engine needs lots of cooling when it is working hard. I'm dreading the call to the rad guys. Not gonna be cheap.

Oh yeah, on the fenders. I think on the 19.5 wheels I'll be able to get a slightly narrower/straighter side wall which will be perfect. It would work the way it is now except turning. I'll role the fenders if I need to, that should get me the smidge more clearance I need coupled with a little less tire bulge.