58 Apache with C4 Flatout Engineering

[lexteak]

Thanks Kim. I agree on the 2.5. That means frame mods. I think I'll start planing on that. Maybe I can make enough room with the mods to have some wiggle room. then I can put the cab and fenders on the stepside and make a final ride height choice.

I wish I loved that hotrod look, it would be just a simple bolt on and go. Nothing is ever easy.

[lexteak]

Made a little progress this weekend. Originally going to build a 4 sided boxed bridge to span the new notched frame area. Decided the back of the frame needed to have a lot modified. It needed to be boxed in, the crossmembers needed moved and there were a lot of holes I thought I might fill. So i decided to just build rails all the way back. Lot of things to still take into account, and need to reinforce the joints. For now I just tacked it so I could get a visual on the fitment.

I have a separate question about the website. When I update the post like this with progress, do I just "post a reply" or is there a better way to initiate a new update. Thanks Jay.

[lexteak]

I guess I should clarify, that the new frame rails will go on the inside of the existing frame. I just have them clamped to the outside to check the shape. I'll eventually cut the frame and install them from the inside of the main frame.
I might ask for advice on the joinery. Still trying to come up with ideas.

[dug224]

I'm somewhere between .5 and 1.5. The longer I work on mine the more I do things to make it more level. Great presentation. dug

[Advanced Design]

Jay, good solution for the frame. Post reply is what I use to update or post to a thread. Or quick reply if I won't be including pictures.

[lexteak]

Thanks Guys... Dug I was just looking at your build again, and early on I see a photo of the trailblazer frame that has a pair of plug welds on the frame at a joint. Think I'll use something similar, but add a few more. Great to have all this info. Appreciated.

[Kim57]

Nice looking frame rails.
Kim

[RockinKees]

I totally missed out on this build....how's that possible??
Looks a nice solid truck to start with.
I like your plans with it, Lexteak.

Nice fabrication on the framerails

Surely follow along

[lexteak]

Thanks Kees. Just getting started and trying to get some confidence. Your build looks great, super fab skills. Lots of great ideas. I'll be watching.

Thanks Jay.

[lexteak]

Did some work over the last couple weeks. Reinforced the new frame tubes and actually got one tacked in place. Pealed the old frame back and plan on using whats left to transition old to new so it have a gradual narrowing. After all said and done I probably would have gone with just the c-notch plates I originally cut. Seems like a lot of work this way.


Some notables....

Must clean up the corner welds , they look pretty wavy. I stitched the plates on to avoid warping, so I did a lot of start and stop in the beads. caused a lot of bumps. Got to blame it on something other than my crappy welding skills. Hope some fiberglass filler will tidy thing up when its all constructed.

used existing holes in the frame for welding the plug welds. I opened them up a bit so I had a little more surface area to weld to. I added one extra hole, all other were there, left over from spring perches..etc...

I have to mount the front dog-bone bracket 3 inched up from original location. I'll add some more tube to handle that later. Talked with Don at Flat-out, he recommended moving that up to keep the angles correct.

I used weld thru primer (gold) on the new and old sections to reduce corrosion between the sections.

here is some pics, sorry if their jumbled up a bit.

[lexteak]

more..

[lexteak]

After looking at the post, I guess I should clarify a bit. The original frame strips top and bottom will be used to tie into the new section. Thay are flapping in space right now. Just didn't want to weld anything more until I get the other side tacked. I'll put some temp cross-members in at then burn everything in. At this point it just in the proper location, but nothing is permanent.

[Kim57]

Looks good.
Kim

[RockinKees]

Sure looks good!
Looks pretty strong to me

[lexteak]

Thanks guys. got the other side ready to weld in. Will tackle it tomorrow. I'll send some pics when its all tied in.

[lexteak]

anybody have a recommendation for cab mounts ? Planning a little ahead for setting the front axle center-line. I see brothers has them on sale for 19.00.

[Az. Hank]

Looks good. Keep the pictures coming

[lexteak]

Did more work this weekend. Was a great weekend to be in the garage, it rained the last 3 days.

Got the Diff somewhat mocked up. Who needs to weld anything when the clamps are on sale at HF !!

Have an issue concerning the half shaft angles that I just can't figure out. Up and down they need to be around 2 degrees down. But not sure exactly where they need to be angled front to back. I mounted everything and then pulled the shafts 90 degrees to the frame. At that location, the front dogebone mount seems short. Meaning I would have to pull them forward more and past 90. But currently 2 separate things make me thing they are already to far forward. The lower control arm seems like it is deflected to far already. It is somewhat biased on the bushings like its pulled to far. Also the more I pull it forward the more toe-in I get, and right now I have to much toe-in already.

I searched the web and just cannot come up with a good answer on what the half shaft angle should be. If I get that measurement, I can adjust everything else accordingly. Maybe I need to hang around the grocery store and wait for someone to show up with a C4 to do some shopping.

I'll keep poking around on the web and see what I can find out. Below a couple pics of my progress.

[Kim57]

Going to be real nice when it's all in there.
Kim

[lexteak]

Thanks Kim. Just got off the phone with Don at Flat-out. I had a suspicion that maybe they were creating an angle with the half shaft to protect the bearings in the u-joints. That turns out to be the case. They angle the half shafts forward slightly so if they are parallel to the ground at ride height, there is still some angle created in the shaft. He also said the center-line measurement at 36 1/2 is to the wheel center, not the half shaft. I'll go back and re-position everything and see what I got.

[RockinKees]

Nice setup, those C4 IRS!

Just like a Jag, you will be taking measurement all the time!

[lexteak]

Thanks Kees. I'm a happy guy right now. The light bulb went off. After talking with Don at flatout and looking at this for a couple hours tonight, I realized what the issue is. The instructions get you to set a CL based on the rear of the frame, then set the batwing mounts off that line. Once you do that your screwed.

The real deal is setting that CL, then setting the wheel hub center on that CL. Because the half shafts naturally sweep back, that moves the batwing mounts and everything else forward of that reference. That makes the light bulb burn bright.

It's one of those deals where if you had no instructions at all you would see the light right away. But once you get misdirected, it takes a lot to see why.

Other than having to get a new tape measure (I wore it out) I should be back on track.

[RockinKees]

[QUOTE=lexteak;7580549

It's one of those deals where if you had no instructions at all you would see the light right away. But once you get misdirected, it takes a lot to see why.

Other than having to get a new tape measure (I wore it out) I should be back on track.[/QUOTE]

That's what I said, measure, measure, measure, so much you wore out your tape measure
Glad you figured out what the problem was!!
On to step 137

[lexteak]

Had about 3 easy things to do this morning. As usual everything that could go wrong did, PITA. Finally got it sitting on rubber in the back. Everything still just tacked in. On to the front.

[Kim57]

Looks good.
Kim