1976-1980 Chevy trucks smog exempt in California S.B.1239

[slotard]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

No reason to cut up any of these trucks if they are able to pass smog. I have a 85 GMC with all the smog crap possible and even though I`m still trouble shooting things to get my CEL to go out so I can smog it, dealing with the smog stuff isnt too bad unless you are trying to hot rod the trucks.

With that said I have no problem with them bumping it up to 1980 but keep in mind that does not mean these trucks can be modified without problems. The law states that the smog equipment must still be installed if pulled over and inspected for any reason.

It`s issues like this that makes me think GM should drop the price of their EROD engine packages. I`d love to have a 430hp LS engine in my truck and be 50 state smog legal but I cant justify $12k for the package.

Yep, a few years ago a friend of mine got a smog ticket in a 1973? Porsche 914 that hadn't needed a smog test in several years. He had to go to the ref and everything, wasn't easy to get it to pass.

Originally Posted by lilpoindexter

I really hope this pans out. I stress out everytime i take my'78 for smog check. When smog check started it was supposed to be a rolling 20 year exemption...meaning '96 wouldnt smog this year.

I thought it was 30 years, it certainly was near the end (Arnold stopped the rolling 30 year in 2005, hence the current 1975 date).

[Zane M]

Originally Posted by MikeB

How in the heck are there so many 1930s-1960s hot rods in CA?

Are you asking this due to the smog hassle in CA, or is it just a random thought?

Pre-'75 vehicles don't have to pass a smog test, so 30s-60s hot rods would be easy to build a "hot rod" from that standpoint.

If it is a question on the sheer number of hot rods, California's climate makes survival of the old cars more probable, and it is arguable that more cars are sold in CA than any other state, so the pool of available candidates is probably much higher.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by Zane M

Are you asking this due to the smog hassle in CA, or is it just a random thought?

Pre-'75 vehicles don't have to pass a smog test, so 30s-60s hot rods would be easy to build a "hot rod" from that standpoint.

If it is a question on the sheer number of hot rods, California's climate makes survival of the old cars more probable, and it is arguable that more cars are sold in CA than any other state, so the pool of available candidates is probably much higher.

Not to mention that prior to 1966 the only smog equipment was a road draft tube.

And to be clear, just because we dont have to smog 75-older vehicles doesnt mean we cant get a ticket for removing the smog equipment. It is still required to stay on but unless a officer pulls you over and asks to see your engine, which happens, nobody enforces it.

[slotard]

There are some screwy rules for engine swaps too. If I want to 100% legally put a 6.0/4L80E in my truck I'd have to swap over all the emissions stuff from the donor truck including evap, cats in original location, etc. I imagine that when I get around to a swap even if I don't put ANY emissions stuff on it'll be cleaner than my truck when it left the factory.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by slotard

There are some screwy rules for engine swaps too. If I want to 100% legally put a 6.0/4L80E in my truck I'd have to swap over all the emissions stuff from the donor truck including evap, cats in original location, etc. I imagine that when I get around to a swap even if I don't put ANY emissions stuff on it'll be cleaner than my truck when it left the factory.

The nice thing though is the later engines have less emissions or less complicated emissions. I have no trouble running the smog equipment required for the year of the engine. The only reason to not like the smog stuff is if you want to hot rod it or you have a truck like my 85 with california emissions and can only use parts for a 85-86 truck for smog and there is almost nothing available.

[mattcrp1]

I signed the petition last week, I sure hope this catches traction.

[mattcrp1]

Hey KrazyRay, It is possible to get a title on a vehicle with out a smog. It happens when you buy a vehicle and transfer in to non-op. All the fees are paid and the title is transferred to the new owner. The only difference is that it cant be operated on road till the smog is done. Every year you will get a notice that it is in non-op and if you want to operate it on road you will need to pay the current registration and smog if applicable.

I have done this for a few vehicles. Some needed to be verified and some were simple sales with titles. Unfortunately it may depend on who you talk to at the DMV. I used to verify vehicles as a side business and got familiar with the system and what questions to ask.

I have also bought vehicles with huge back fee's and negotiated them down, like 1/3 of the original fee.

[MalibuSSwagon]

Originally Posted by 68c10owner

Not to mention that prior to 1966 the only smog equipment was a road draft tube.

And to be clear, just because we dont have to smog 75-older vehicles doesnt mean we cant get a ticket for removing the smog equipment. It is still required to stay on but unless a officer pulls you over and asks to see your engine, which happens, nobody enforces it.

Ridiculous, that just doesn't happen here. Even tho we have regulations which state OEM emissions controls have to be in place visually for inspection, but most inspection stations turn a blind eye as nobody actually enforces the rules outside of the inspection process. Only chain shops will be strict about it, and even then my truck passes every year with no cats on it. Forget the engine swap, I don't think they pop the hood.

Originally Posted by slotard

There are some screwy rules for engine swaps too. If I want to 100% legally put a 6.0/4L80E in my truck I'd have to swap over all the emissions stuff from the donor truck including evap, cats in original location, etc. I imagine that when I get around to a swap even if I don't put ANY emissions stuff on it'll be cleaner than my truck when it left the factory.

Well that not too bad, hanging an OEM tank on a square has been done. Heck after 2001 GM removed EGR. So run a line for EVAP and figure out how to fit everything under there, and you're good.

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by MalibuSSwagon

Ridiculous, that just doesn't happen here. Even tho we have regulations which state OEM emissions controls have to be in place visually for inspection, but most inspection stations turn a blind eye as nobody actually enforces the rules outside of the inspection process. Only chain shops will be strict about it, and even then my truck passes every year with no cats on it. Forget the engine swap, I don't think they pop the hood.



Well that not too bad, hanging an OEM tank on a square has been done. Heck after 2001 GM removed EGR. So run a line for EVAP and figure out how to fit everything under there, and you're good.

Like I said its rarely if ever enforced.

As for the swap stuff, I dont beleive you have to swap the fuel tank. A 1987 efi tank should work for a legal swap.

[John Gilbert]

Originally Posted by MikeB

How in the heck are there so many 1930s-1960s hot rods in CA?

That's because everything up to 1975 in California is exempt.

[KQQL IT]

Originally Posted by John Gilbert

That's because everything up to 1975 in California is exempt.

Exempt from any test. But still required equipment is supposed to be there.

[Matt Man]

There was a hearing today on this bill today, anybody find anything out?

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by John Gilbert

That's because everything up to 1975 in California is exempt.

And even that is somewhat recent. When I bought my 1970 Formula from Sac in about 1990-ish it had to be smogged before I could take possession, and the kicker was that it wasn't even staying in the state, I was taking it back to Ohio at the time. I thought that was pretty stupid. Cali squeezing a little more money out of you before the car leaves the state

I've had several other dealings with Cali on that stuff I won't get into but in a nut shell, they really don't need to be testing back to 1975 nowadays either and should be a rolling exemption of 20-25 years like most other states do. I find it funny that mr terminator wants to be a tree hugger and removes the rolling exemption yet drives tanks and hummers

I hope the bill works out for you guys over there and things get easier. It's the biggest reason I wouldn't move to Cali where family was and settled in Prescott instead (no testing here) I can easily just drive over and visit, lol.

[slotard]

At one point it was a 30 year rolling exemption, then the governator removed that in 2005. I've heard that it used to be that trucks (maybe >6k only?) were testing exempt as well, but don't know for sure.

And of course, as I said before, you're testing exempt. You can still get a smog ticket.

[midnight rambler]

I bought a 74 2 years ago quick trip to aaa and had it out in my name no smog test.

[slotard]

Right, you haven't had to smog a '74 since 2004. However, if you get pulled over and the cop is a dick, he can certainly ticket you if any emissions equipment is missing (wrong carb, wrong air cleaner, headers, missing air pump, etc).

[Firebirdjones]

I'd be interested to know, do they actually send these cops to classic car school? I'd bet half of them don't really know the ins and outs of these cars. I'd bet money they couldn't tell my if my firebird has the correct 1970 RAIII carb on it. Being a California (Van Nuys) car it has a certain casting number on it that is different from other 70 RAIII carbs. That whole deal really leaves a lot of open territory.

Hell most people don't even realize that GVW's on these old squares dictated what emissions equipment you got. My 79 1 ton 454 never had cat converters from the factory because the GVW was over the threshold, but it had a smog pump, that was it. Matter of fact the filler neck on both gas tanks are of the large variety for leaded fuel (if any here are old enough to remember leaded gas pumps with larger fill nozzles) and a tell tale sign of that is a fuel gauge in the truck that is blank....it doesn't say anything about "unleaded fuel only" like a truck does that came factory with cat converters.

Sorry, just rambling here about some small details that most of those cops likely wouldn't even know about. I could just see that whole mess being fun to deal with, lol.

[El Dorado Jim]

I hadn't heard about the bill, hope it passes..

[KQQL IT]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I'd be interested to know, do they actually send these cops to classic car school? I'd bet half of them don't really know the ins and outs of these cars. I'd bet money they couldn't tell my if my firebird has the correct 1970 RAIII carb on it. Being a California (Van Nuys) car it has a certain casting number on it that is different from other 70 RAIII carbs. That whole deal really leaves a lot of open territory.

Hell most people don't even realize that GVW's on these old squares dictated what emissions equipment you got. My 79 1 ton 454 never had cat converters from the factory because the GVW was over the threshold, but it had a smog pump, that was it. Matter of fact the filler neck on both gas tanks are of the large variety for leaded fuel (if any here are old enough to remember leaded gas pumps with larger fill nozzles) and a tell tale sign of that is a fuel gauge in the truck that is blank....it doesn't say anything about "unleaded fuel only" like a truck does that came factory with cat converters.

Sorry, just rambling here about some small details that most of those cops likely wouldn't even know about. I could just see that whole mess being fun to deal with, lol.

Another board I used to frequent, dude said he got a ticket for no catylitic converter on his 68 chevelle.

Car is probably much older than the nice occifer.

[Firebirdjones]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

Another board I used to frequent, dude said he got a ticket for no catylitic converter on his 68 chevelle.

Car is probably much older than the nice occifer.

LOL, that's hilarious.

[slotard]

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

I'd be interested to know, do they actually send these cops to classic car school? I'd bet half of them don't really know the ins and outs of these cars. I'd bet money they couldn't tell my if my firebird has the correct 1970 RAIII carb on it. Being a California (Van Nuys) car it has a certain casting number on it that is different from other 70 RAIII carbs. That whole deal really leaves a lot of open territory.

Hell most people don't even realize that GVW's on these old squares dictated what emissions equipment you got. My 79 1 ton 454 never had cat converters from the factory because the GVW was over the threshold, but it had a smog pump, that was it. Matter of fact the filler neck on both gas tanks are of the large variety for leaded fuel (if any here are old enough to remember leaded gas pumps with larger fill nozzles) and a tell tale sign of that is a fuel gauge in the truck that is blank....it doesn't say anything about "unleaded fuel only" like a truck does that came factory with cat converters.

Sorry, just rambling here about some small details that most of those cops likely wouldn't even know about. I could just see that whole mess being fun to deal with, lol.

They'd ticket you, and you'd need to go to a smog ref (who should know what he's doing). It's a ****ty situation even if you have nothing wrong.

[Firebirdjones]

Yep that's what I mean, it opens a can of worms. They shouldn't have people running around ticketing others in the first place when they don't know a damn thing they are talking about. Plus, how many times are various cops going to keep pulling you over and saying the same thing, writing tickets? What a total inconvenience.

What I would do, and I wonder why others haven't tried this...
In the case of my pickup truck, after registering the truck I'd go straight to a smog ref and get a written signed sworn statement with a stamp of approval that this is how the truck is built from the factory (no cats) and carry that around in the truck at all times. If a cop wants to squawk about it, show him the papers. End of story and no BS.
Technically speaking that's really how that whole mess should be handled in the first place so people aren't inconvenience, unnecessary money isn't spent, etc....

[MalibuSSwagon]

We had a similar issue here, but with salvage inspections. The DMV had state troopers inspecting repairs on rebuilt cars in order to get a reconstructed title. Of course these cops don't know the first thing about what they are looking at, my buddy said the trooper signed off on one of his cars when it was across the parking lot. It's no longer like that since someone got hurt in an accident with a improperly rebuilt car and sued the state over it, now they have inspectors that obsess over a scratch on your rebuilt automobile. But that I can understand.....the smog thing however, I still cannot believe. A 5.3L is going to be far cleaner than a 1976 smogger 350, of course since there's been 40 years in engine technology advancements since then, the new ones don't even need EGR. But the real issue is that California just wants to obsolete old cars out of existence, don't forgot their vehicle retirement programs where they crushed old cars that were still operable by the hundreds...what a waste...

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Zane M

Are you asking this due to the smog hassle in CA, or is it just a random thought?

Pre-'75 vehicles don't have to pass a smog test.

So, on a 50s vehicle, for example, there is NO visual inspection, even if the engine is a later model that would have been equipped with emission control devices? Seems like I read that in some states it's the engine, not the vehicle, that determines which devices are required.

And, yes, as someone said above, it's fairly easy to have late-60s to mid-70s emission control devices in place for visual inspection.

On another note, will CA approve a mid-80s truck with a GMPP e-Rod engine? Or would they say you're missing the original emissions control devices?

[KQQL IT]

Originally Posted by MikeB

So, on a 50s vehicle, for example, there is NO visual inspection, even if the engine is a later model that would have been equipped with emission control devices? Seems like I read that in some states it's the engine, not the vehicle, that determines which devices are required.

And, yes, as someone said above, it's fairly easy to have late-60s to mid-70s emission control devices in place for visual inspection.

On another note, will CA approve a mid-80s truck with a GMPP e-Rod engine? Or would they say you're missing the original emissions control devices?

If you go to the referee for approval