long and hopefully good thread

[badherb]

below you will see the crappy floor and rockers after acquiring the good stuff from the brown truck today I started cutting away all the bad. these should show that well enough. Go to used the spot weld cutter. I can tell you once again that patience and slowness of drill and when to start adding pressure to start cutting is an art form. Practice this guys!

[badherb]

ok guys some detail you will not get from other threads. I've heard all the bashing of after market panels, I can imagine the issues many people have had. what is funny to me no one has explained the issues they had only they suck. well leave it to me to be the one to point out the problems.
*panels purchased and problems:
1. floor drivers side. comes with part front half of rocker and floor across the seam (pic above starting at lower firewall) hole for body mount is positioned well. Floor does not look stock for the 1960. there are two reliefs running perpendicular to truck should only be one. the area that the hump attaches to is turned up and there are no holes for mounting hump and no relief for the tunnel to rest in. the firewall portion runs off to no where particular. The pillar will interfere with mounting.
2. full inner rocker. runs the length of the door jam and has all mounting holes for the pillar in front and the rear. part fits well I had to modify but it works better than the floor. I'm using this and hardly any of the floor pan. you will see in the photos that his panel of all of the is the most time consuming and tedious to install and fit. both pillars will need to be removed to fit the whole part or as I did just cut around them and making sure to not take too much metal out.
3. outer rocker driver side. ugh! doesn't seem to fit inner rocker at all. I have a separation at the front of the rocker and inner rocker that should not be there mind you it is about 1/4 inch but its there and will require a lot of fitting. the front pillar does not accept the outer rocker as an over lap joint as the original is. if I cut out the lower part of the pillar i'm sure this would fit very well but I don't think that is the way its supposed to work but more on that later.
4. corners for lower back cab they seem to fit nice but more on that later when I get there.
Over all if I were to attempt this again I would get the whole floor> take off the cab and flip it then cut out and refit. I did not see the WHOLE picture just my small one. if only a small part of your rockers inner or out are in need of help then by all means get just patch panels. But my rust was more than enough to need what I purchased. good luck pm me if you need explanation on any of this.

[badherb]

after 3 hours of cutting fitting and refitting and recutting drinking a beer and then getting to use a new tool or two this is what I have. Happy? Nope. but I'm not done fitting yet, had to put things up and go eat and well I have no patience for this today so tomorrow maybe I will tack a few spots and get the floor cut and fit.
The outer rocker I'm really unsure about it. Advice would be of great help for the thread and for me. thanks guys.

[badherb]

so another long day in the shop. Had to deal with adjusting adjusting more and still more adjusting and grinding and fitting etc. ugh patience guys patience. yesterday I installed the inner rocker and today I fitted and installed the corner. The corner problems are many. But the blaring ones are the radius of the corner. its not ideal or even close. and the bottom of the panel does not butt up to the inner rocker/floor. Look at the photo you'll see a mark I made so I could reference the fitting many times I suggest doing this.
The outer rocker. as you can see both ends are the same looks like the pillars need to be cut out in order for the rocker to fit correctly but after playing with it for hours you see what I got. happy no! done YES! also the bottom of the inner and outer rocker do not meet up. really SH!TTY! so I have to spend a good deal of time under the truck tomorrow fitting in a piece and tacking it up. I'm very unsatisfied. But like I've stated I do not have a show winner and it will be up to me how perfect it needs to be and right now as it sits I still have work to do. but tomorrow is a new day.

[badherb]

original dash. cleaned: I coated the face with flat black just to freshen up the look I also cleaned every thing and put it back together. Still not sure if I will go with a new dash at $800-$1000 or stick with the old and make everything work for around $300. That price would include the electric to cable speedo module. the others items I can figure out wiring by referencing old and new wire diagrams. I'm and Electrician I think I can do this crap. One thing is for sure I'm not a sheet metal worker. Should I roll back the odometer?

[badherb]

So I guess this is an example of what not to do. Or an example of persistance. You choose. However I told you that the floor pans were not idea or sh!tty but its so true.
the indent for the bolt and the rib are not in the proper place on the replacement pan. Like I said WHOLE pan would be better than a small section. In order to fit he pan I had properly I had to cut it twice and I did not want too. I'm not great at this and the more cuts the more work and I tell you it was a little less than fun. So I pushed the panel forward toward the fire wall and the bolt indent worked there bu the rib did not match. and that was the proper portion to the panel. So I cut it short and grabbed whats left of the panel. and I had a small section that would give me the indent but not the rest of the gaping hole I had so I had to fit a third part in.
Well its done and now I'm almost finished with the largest portion of sheet metal replacement. May tax refund savings program check will be in in about two weeks and I will have a huge order of parts that I will be getting. All the expensive stuff. such as a headers, windshield, possibly a new instrument cluster. IDK its on a list somewhere. fun times!!!

[badherb]

So as you can see my floor pan was not ready as it did not fit at all. had to chop it up to make the grooves work and so the bolt indent for the cab would fit correctly and it was not fun but I did enjoy the aftermath of the problem cause it was now behind me. Note I will never replace one side of the floor pan ever again all or nothing I think for the next one or not at all.
So after that part of my metal work was done I started tackling the passenger door. It had a few dent and holes. I fixed them and was admiring my work when I noticed the bottom corners being a rats nest of work. Well Crap. So I grabbed the two doors I had in wait and installed them. got them fit real well. I need to purchase a new striker on the drivers door so it will stay tight shut instead of rattling, but hat it oh and more work on the sheet metal hammer and dolly and dent puller need a lot of exercise.
As you can see to gut the doors so I can work on them I ran across these funny fasteners. I know they sell a tool but I will never reuse these things. so I had to modify a flat blade screw driver to get them out and the more stubborn one got a grinder. all are out now! So I will gut these two doors and work the metal and then on too? not sure but when the parts roll in I will have mucho work in the wait.

[badherb]

So in my quest to finish a project and learn a bunch of stuff I started tackling a door. This door is the good one and requires a lot less work than the drivers door. The door is off a 1 ton and it had BIG mirrors on it. after removal of the mirrors the scars remained. Holes and dents, I welded these closed and used a dent puller to get better results. I had to drill several 1/8 inch holes to pull out the dents. I hammered and dollied the metal as smooth as I could and laid down a very thin layer of bondo. Now comes in the learning. I'm a construction guy I've learned how to do every trade, not an awesome skilled perfect tradesman but I can do everything and with time I make stuff look pretty damn good. Bondo and dry wall share some very similar craft skills. I just chose a small area to work with and attempt to make that nice and move on. I had several small spots to work on the door and in the end the panel is nice and flat. mind you the art of mixing and laying down the bondo is not fun. I'm much better with dry wall!!!! but the skills relate a lot. and I was able to finish this door with relative ease. The drivers door which is in the previous post will be a lot more entertaining.

[step65]

Nice work looking good.

[canadian_diesel1964]

I agree...mine is in worse shape by far..I'm in the same boat not a show winner....your doing a great job..keep on keepin on man!

[badherb]

So as you can tell my drivers door is at an almost total loss. but I need to figure a way out to get this thing looking good and have it not need a repair later due to shoddy work.
after hammering and dollying what I would and sanding very well. I filled in the big holes with welding and sanded some more I got it very close to flat. I wiped down the top of the door with acetone and laid down a layer of bondo. its still not what I would call a healthy layer, still rather thin. This is the results of one sanding.
Now I have a dilemma. The bottom of the door needs new sheet metal, but is on the edge of what would be a new panel or a rather large dose of bondo and more dolly work in a spot I can barely get to inside the door. I'll let it sit for a day or so and decide which is the result I will be satisfied with.

Here is the discussion you need to have with your self. Because no matter who wants to monday morning quarter back your project its you at the end of the day that needs to be happy.
Do I want a show quality truck? Do I have the skills necessary to garner the highest quality workmanship? Will I be bashing my head against a wall for weeks wondering if I will ever get what I aim for? Or do I want a driver that is a very nice 20 footer? will anyone be able to see an error in skill or judgement? Does it matter one flipping bit? shoot for the bulls-eye and hit the paper? whats best for you to be happy. Take it to a repair shop so you don't have to worry about it any more? ITS UP TO YOU! ARE YOU HAPPY? that's all that matters.

[Bomp]

Making progress and admire your persistence.

On the spot weld cutter I use a center punch, that helps keep the cutter from walking.

On the HFT butt welding clamps, I've found if you smooth'em out on a belt sander so they have a thinner lower edge they are easier to remove when you spot weld.
Spot welding sometimes draws (shrinks) the metal closer together and will test your patience to the greatest extremes when trying to pull those cursed little things out.
And put tape or something on one side of the squared rectangle to act as a handle and to keep if from falling out when you can't reach it when tightening.

I had to pie cut my cab corners to get a proper fit. #273 Link
Some place someone mentioned that some cab corners are made to fit over existing sheet metal and other are made to replace the sheet metal.
Not sure who said it but I believe that to be true after I messed with mine.

This is the thread, from theastronaut, I used to restore my gauges.
John Glenn does an excellent job walking you through the process.
Your cluster may be different than his but the basics are all there.
Link

Im sure you are aware that you can purchase replacement door skins.
On my build I've stretched the cab 5". That means both doors are 5" longer than stock.
After 8 tried I finally got my door skin to work on the drivers side. Making them correctly was the biggest challenge.
Long story short, I had a Toyota in my younger days. 2 weeks after owning the truck the neighbor lady backed into my door. My dad caked it with bondo, passenger door shut with a tinny clink, drivers door shut with a giant heavy thud. After a couple of months of constantly opening and closing the door the bondo cracked. My dad caked it on. 1/2"-3/4" I believe. I didn't know, I was a kid.

You door body work looks pretty good. A body man from the swap meet says that if its 1/8th" or less its acceptable. I personally don't like "mud" but its a necessary evil.


Keep up the good work. Not fun at times but the payoff is great when driving down the road.

[badherb]

Originally Posted by Bomp

Making progress and admire your persistence.

On the spot weld cutter I use a center punch, that helps keep the cutter from walking.

On the HFT butt welding clamps, I've found if you smooth'em out on a belt sander so they have a thinner lower edge they are easier to remove when you spot weld.
Spot welding sometimes draws (shrinks) the metal closer together and will test your patience to the greatest extremes when trying to pull those cursed little things out.
And put tape or something on one side of the squared rectangle to act as a handle and to keep if from falling out when you can't reach it when tightening.

I had to pie cut my cab corners to get a proper fit. #273 Link
Some place someone mentioned that some cab corners are made to fit over existing sheet metal and other are made to replace the sheet metal.
Not sure who said it but I believe that to be true after I messed with mine.

This is the thread, from theastronaut, I used to restore my gauges.
John Glenn does an excellent job walking you through the process.
Your cluster may be different than his but the basics are all there.
Link

Im sure you are aware that you can purchase replacement door skins.
On my build I've stretched the cab 5". That means both doors are 5" longer than stock.
After 8 tried I finally got my door skin to work on the drivers side. Making them correctly was the biggest challenge.
Long story short, I had a Toyota in my younger days. 2 weeks after owning the truck the neighbor lady backed into my door. My dad caked it with bondo, passenger door shut with a tinny clink, drivers door shut with a giant heavy thud. After a couple of months of constantly opening and closing the door the bondo cracked. My dad caked it on. 1/2"-3/4" I believe. I didn't know, I was a kid.

You door body work looks pretty good. A body man from the swap meet says that if its 1/8th" or less its acceptable. I personally don't like "mud" but its a necessary evil.


Keep up the good work. Not fun at times but the payoff is great when driving down the road.

Thanks BOMP I've seen your work on the site and I am impressed. I appreciate your hints: center punching, I did forgot to mention it, Sheet metal door I've looked at them and it seems to me they will run short if I use them as advertised, but a couple small mods and a lot of extra work one should work. I hate Bondo too. but like you say its necessary to an extent. all my work fills very small valleys/holes. I only put on slightly more than I want to take off and Ill put another layer on before laying one think ass layer. great hints on the butt weld clamps I'm sure Ill be using that those tips very soon.
Again thanks!

[badherb]

So where do I start?
attempt one: I fit an exact piece to the hole in the door. I needed too as the door could not be banged out nor could I salvage what was there. I had three ideas to get the door back to semi straight again and this is the first one, butt weld the patch in. FAIL!!!! the welds shrink! and what I got was some pull here and there and the whole thing looked like an abortion. I cant tell you how pissed off I was. the door cant be hammered and dolly out to flat again due to restrictions because of the inner door panel. I felt screwed and looked for a different option before going to get a new lower door panel internet was an idea maker.
Attempt two: I cut out my newly installed patch and proceeded to get out the wows and OMGS in the panel. It took a while. I had oil canning going on in a couple places and it was truly a test in my ability to figure out how to fix it. the whole time I knew I could get a new panel but did not want this to kick my ass. I went to Harbor Freight and bought a seamer. I attacked the rectangle hole I had and went around the hole several times I wanted a good lap to bridge across and wanted to limit my bondo usage. (Is this the way a pro would do it? I'm not a pro, I'm a get it done guy.) after fitting for what seemed like too long and getting it to set well I tacked in to place. I went across the top first then down the sides then the bottom. I had little if any shrinkage and the patch was in. I place a 4 foot level across the door and checked for a uniform flatness across the whole door especially the patch! WOO HOO! I had a door that was semi close to what I wanted. I used my dent puller and a sanding disk some more to insure I would not get a panel that would collapse under only a little pressure and I had it. a couple thin layers of bondo and smoothed out my door is done.
Now I reflect on the door work. Was it the best way to fix it? will it hold up over time? My thoughts are this and only this. Its my truck! I don't have a shop teacher over my shoulder telling me how to do this and since its done and I can look at it and be happy with the results, who cares what anyone thinks. Granted there are better methods, and there are a lot more skilled resources out there, BUT I DID IT! Me. and I over came a very difficult project. I will warn any one attempting to do any large panel that will need to be flat or close to flat, ITS HARD AS HELL!

[badherb]

Now I wait for the UPs man. I have many cool things in the works and my time as a body man have drawn to an end for a while, only finish sanding to go.
1st item in the house new headers for the LS and they fit between the frame rails!!! I have to take out the engine first and repair a broken stud in the back part of the head so that will wait. tomorrow a big shipment is scheduled ITS LIKE CHRISTMAS.

[badherb]

So the other day the brown truck came with many boxes and I had my own little X-mas party opening things up isn't it fun to open all yer stuff even if you know whats in it?
So the first pic shows what I was going to use before I heard of these better mounts from Early Classics Next pic. I have 60! attempt to find 60 anything while 80% of the time you can find most things there are elusive parts that aren't re-manufactured. Like motor mount perches.the first attempt was a set of perches from a 1970 I think. and when the motor sat on them with a universal set of mounts and a home designed motor plate for a LS motor it was less than 1/2 inch from the oil pan. I wanted one inch at least. So I put in the spacer. I was ok with it not in love. Then the EC mounts came into the picture and I had to have them. But once again its not for my year. Fits 63-up. I ran across someone on here that used them anyway and just put in a 1 inch spacer on the frame rail top. I can deal with the looks. it works and its better than my attempt.
Next pics show a fuel tank I ordered and the tank again doesn't fit 60's but look at me do I care? NOPE! I removed the sheet metal cross member that is on the back of the 60 and then jacked the new tank into place. I used 8 inch wide 3/16" metal and weld that to the frame then jacked the tank up and fit the holes and spot welded some carriage bolts facing down 4 nuts later the tank is mounted. I reserve the right to revisit this mounting later I'm afraid that the tank will waffle over bumps but I already plan on putting another cross member in and I can use the tank strips to hold the tank l more still.
Lastly the LS and tranny needed a gear shift. I picked this one up. I LIKE IT! Lokar... easy peazy.

[badherb]

More on the EC motor mounts. If you have never done them here was my attack on it. I got my one inch spacers cut to length and then drilled them out. I put the whole system on the engine and put the thing in place. I tack welded my spacers into place then lifted the engine out. I then put the perches on my spacers. I drilled out the holes needed then reinstalled them on the engine. I then lifted the engine into the bay and slid everything into place. I paid particular attention to placement of engine regarding level side to side and ensuring the tranny cross member allowed me to place the engine where I wanted it front to aft. over all I will enjoy this EC system.

[Johnny_Lamebridge]

You're getting lots of work done but I'm getting a sore neck looking at the sideways pics.

[badherb]

Well feels like a life time since i worked on this whore. But got back to it this weekend. I found out the stuff all over the dash and all over interior was an old type paint, very thick. This stuff gums up every sandinding disk accept 24 grit. 10 or so 6 inch disks and that problem is now solved. Built a engine hoist cab lifter. Its set in place and next weekend the cab and frame get a temporary separation so i can clean and paint frame and under coat cab bottom.

[badherb]

Cab off frame pressure washed

[badherb]

So today was productive. Relocated front shock mounts.fabbed up new trans xmember. Installed pan hard bar. Btw rear axle location and pinion angle and measuring one million times, got rear end close enough for an alignment shop. Axle is perpendicular to frame just a little out from side to side. Had to weld perches on to axle and get pan hard and pinion angle all close before welding. It takes a lot of measuring!

[badherb]

learned that the PO had swapped in a 12 bolt 68 3.07:1 rear end. nice parts available too. so it got new brake shoes and cylinders plus drums. productive again. now on to making the brake system whole again with new brake lines hummmm what to get now?

[bj383ss]

Just read through your thread. You have made great progress and I admire your willingness to try to figure things out on your own. I pretty much replaced a lot of the same sheet metal on mine you have. I just welded in a patch on my driver door. It fit perfect and my welds were perfect and guess what it shrunk the metal above it. Now I have a big oil can to try and get out. Oh well life goes on.

Bret

[badherb]

damn nearly three years since i posted on this thread. Life happens my friends. so short story. I moved and had two years of work to get done and a new shop to build. in Oct i got my shop and prepped that for me to be full on in a bigger shop with all the space needed. then my Dad passes away and the depression hit. more than 60 years of mechanical experience and i was not done gathering what i could, so i buried my head into the project once again.
summary: ls swap wiring tutorials a must. got my 4.8 stand alone wiring harness complete, computer needs to be sent and reprogrammed. 3 full weekends, im and electrician and i struggled. but very satisfiying.
break lines damn near dun: note double flares are not hard if you follow some good rules. look up double flares and watch videos I watched 6 or so after ruining the 3/16 die twice. clamping and lube and filing the flare end take note it helps.
fly by wire gas pedal. mounting spot has a rib that the pedal has to straddle. built spacers welded painted drilled. waiting for a new tool and i will have that accomplished.
wiper motor, stock, works, had to reman a new bolt for the linkage to run on. pretty easy cause i have a metal mill/lathe. but the motor is painted and ready to go in.
no pics today guys sorry but when i get each or these things totally complete i will post pics. sorry it took me so long to get going again but its snowy in the PNW and i got nothing todo but work on this thing.

[Warrens69GMC]

Good job. Keep plugging away!!