Load Capacity: Tow Hooks

[Gromit]

Quote:

"A tow strap can exert tremendous stress On a hook especially if being yanked from a stuck position."

I'll second that...

Here is a cut and paste of a fatal accident involving a tow ball... when it comes to things that people may reasonably expect to withstand commonly encountered loads you can see the Court doesn't give manufacturers much of a break.


http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ne-suprem...t/1224248.html


Here is just part of it:

Supreme Court of Nebraska.


Joseph A. HAAG, appellee, v. Alfred M. BONGERS and Delores D. Kuhl, Personal Representatives of the Estate of Leo J. Bongers, deceased, appellees and cross-appellants, William J. Dolan, doing business as Dolan Realty and Auction Co., and Bauer-Moravec Auctioneers and Clerks, appellees, and Putnam Hitch Products, Inc., appellant and cross-appellee.

No. S-97-1243.

Decided: February 12, 1999
WRIGHT, GERRARD, STEPHAN, McCORMACK, and MILLER-LERMAN, JJ.  Brien M. Welch, of Cassem, Tierney, Adams, Gotch & Douglas, Omaha, for appellant. Kevin R. McManaman and Thomas J. Culhane, of Erickson & Sederstrom, P.C., Omaha, for appellees Bongers and Kuhl. M.J. Bruckner and John W. Ballew, Jr., of The Bruckner/ Ballew Law Firm, P.C., Lincoln, for appellee Haag.
I. NATURE OF CASE

Putnam Hitch Products, Inc. (Putnam), appeals and Alfred M. Bongers (Bongers) and Delores D. Kuhl (Kuhl), personal representatives of the estate of Leo J. Bongers (collectively, the Estate), cross-appeal from a jury verdict in the amount of $600,000 in favor of Joseph A. Haag (Haag) and against the Estate, Dolan Realty and Auction Co. (Dolan), Bauer-Moravec Auctioneers and Clerks (Bauer-Moravec), and Putnam for injuries Haag sustained on January 30, 1993, while attending an antique vehicles auction on the Estate's premises.   Haag was injured when a hitch ball used in towing a vehicle flew off the towing rig and hit Haag on the right side of his skull and his right eye.   For the reasons stated below, we affirm the trial court's order entering judgment on the jury's verdict.

II. BACKGROUND

Leo Bongers died intestate on October 8, 1992.   Subsequently, Bongers and Kuhl, Leo Bongers' nephew and niece, were appointed as personal representatives of his estate.   Upon his death, Leo Bongers left substantial real and personal property, including more than 120 antique cars, trucks, and motorcycles.

In late October 1992, Russ Moravec of Bauer-Moravec contacted the Estate and offered his services as auctioneer.   Upon doing so, Moravec learned that Bill Dolan of Dolan had also  contacted the Estate.   On November 2 or 3, the Estate concluded that Bauer-Moravec and Dolan should conduct the auction of the vehicles jointly and split all of the expenses and commissions relating to the sale.   On November 3, the Estate, Bauer-Moravec, and Dolan signed a written agreement to this effect.   Therefore, in this opinion, Bauer-Moravec and Dolan will be referred to collectively as “the auctioneers.”

Moravec recommended that the auction be held in May, June, or July 1993, at an airstrip in Butler County.   This arrangement would have allowed the parties to line up the vehicles in a row outside in good weather so that people attending the auction could go from car to car and the vehicles would not need to be moved during the auction.   Moravec was concerned that some of the older vehicles would not be in operating condition if the sale were held earlier, and Moravec favored having the auction at this site in this fashion because it would allow the parties to conduct the auction in a safe manner.   The Estate rejected Moravec's recommendation and insisted that the sale be conducted in January 1993.

The auction was held on property owned by the Estate, a farm located 1 1/212 miles south of David City on the west side of Highway 15.   The Estate and the auctioneers decided that the auction would be held inside because of probable bad weather, in a building owned by the Estate that opens at both ends.

In order to prepare for the sale, the Estate was to put the vehicles in running order, while the auctioneers attempted to locate all of the titles for the vehicles and to arrange for volunteer assistants to help with the sale.   The Estate specifically approved the use of assistants for the auction.   One of the assistants, Doug Reznicek, had previously assisted Bauer-Moravec in preparing for other auctions.   Reznicek assisted in making arrangements to move the vehicles into and out of the sale building.   The evidence shows that initially, the Estate was unsure that it would pay the assistants, but that after the sale, the Estate paid Reznicek, as well as all of the other assistants, except one, out of Estate funds.

Prior to the sale, the auction was heavily advertised at the Estate's insistence.   As the auction approached, the parties were flooded with telephone calls regarding the sale.   A joint decision  was made by the Estate and the auctioneers to open both ends of the auction building and add tents on either side to accommodate more people.   A joint decision was made to charge each person wishing to enter the bid barn $25, and a separate tent was set up with a remote broadcast of the auction so that people could watch the auction without paying the $25 fee.   If a bidder actually purchased a vehicle, the Estate refunded the $25 fee.

As the auction grew closer, it became apparent that the Estate would not have many of the vehicles in running order in time for the sale.   A joint decision was made to tow the vehicles into the building.   The vehicles were towed with small tractors which the auctioneers borrowed from farmers in the surrounding community.   In order to attach the antique vehicles to the tractors, Scot Bauer, of Bauer-Moravec, purchased Putnam hitch balls and Bauer's wife purchased ropes.   Mylar-type ropes were used instead of chains to tow the vehicles so that the antique vehicles which were not in running order would not be harmed.

The auction took place on January 30, 1993, beginning at 9:30 a.m. Throughout the auction, 1,300 people paid the $25 bid fee.   The Estate and the auctioneers planned to sell a vehicle every 3 minutes.   It was very cold on the day of the sale, with temperatures well below freezing.   The bid barn was crowded, and the vehicles were towed on a path through the crowd into an area for viewing and bidding.   The crowd was standing shoulder to shoulder.   There were no barriers to separate the crowd from the vehicles.   Given the configuration of the barn and the bidding area, it was necessary for the assistants to physically move people back in order to pull the vehicles through the building.

Before the sale, Reznicek met with the assistants and instructed certain of them to attach the hitch balls to the drawbars of the tractors with a rope in order to tow the vehicles.   At trial, Reznicek testified that he did not directly or indirectly tell anyone how to install a hitch ball on a drawbar and that he gave the hitch balls to persons who presumably knew how to properly attach a hitch ball to a tractor drawbar.   Reznicek stated that during the preauction meeting, he gave the assistants general safety instructions.   The evidence shows that it is common knowledge within the Butler County farming community that all threads on the nut of a hitch ball must be engaged for proper installation.

 Approximately 1 hour into the sale, with approximately 700 to 800 people in the bid barn, an antique Studebaker truck was towed through the crowd into the building and sold.   After the sale, assistants attempted to tow the Studebaker truck out of the building and experienced difficulty in doing so.   As the assistants attempted to tow the vehicle, the hitch ball became detached from the drawbar, flying off the tractor and hitting Haag, who was standing at the back left of the tractor.   Because of the accident, Haag suffered serious injuries to his head, which are not contested on appeal.
- See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ne-suprem....fmgTcmqE.dpuf

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

I find it amusing that this causes so much assumption chatter and negative responses when dealing with tow hooks, but no chatter or negatively when it comes to repro fenders, grills, bumpers and so on.

x2 with what donandal said. There's no comparison there.

[jocko]

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

[dazza]

Originally Posted by jocko

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

Well said.

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by dazza

Well said.

X2, nicely written Jocko.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by jocko

These two threads have been very interesting to watch develop. There is, of course, no comparison between a fender and a tow hook in the area of safety - it's an apples to Labrador Retriever comparison. And I don't think this is something where someone is sitting around waiting to sue someone else. It's safety, period. On the very rare occasion when one goes to actually use a tow hook - it's always a safety situation. Rather than excitement over a law suit, I think folks just want to have confidence that the hook doesn't snap below design yield strength and decapitate someone with the flying tow strap in the process. Cosmetic hooks (and I realize that is not what you're proposing) are a bad, bad idea - there will always be some shmuck out there that forgets or sells on to an unsuspecting customer, etc and someone will get hurt, so, no, cosmetic hooks should never be condoned. In this case, if one can be designed to GM specs, and, more importantly, tested extensively and PROVEN to be as strong (and this isn't done with 1 pull on the yield strength testing jig), then perhaps there would be a market. By the time all that is funded and performed, the hooks would be thousands of $ apiece, so, not sure this is a profitable business case. Personally, since a tow hook is a HD safety item for many reasons, duplication of a GM design should probably carry a GM seal of approval. That is why the originals are demanding such a high price - rarity/no longer produced (as previously stated), but also TRUST and knowing that the rigor went into GM's design and production process - because I guarantee THEY are concerned about being sued. Otherwise, there are already many aftermarket choices for similar and stronger hooks. If this was meant to be a market study, I think you've probably received pretty valuable feedback. A handful of folks that think this may be a good idea does not mean it is one. That's my 2 cents only. I completely understand the draw to get into this and provide a part that folks are clamoring over, but, for me, I would not buy a ring and pinion made by an individual - and that is less a safety issue than a tow hook. If it fails, you just stop moving, there is no flying debris or flailing tow strap.

Agree. And that's why drop forged is going to be the process.
Here's a question for you... Who is liable if the mounting bolts shear off and the hook still comes flying off?

[trac209]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

Agree. And that's why drop forged is going to be the process.
Here's a question for you... Who is liable if the mounting bolts shear off and the hook still comes flying off?

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by trac209

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

They are going to be drop forged (as the originals were), not cast steel. I may be wrong, but I believe there is a big difference.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by trac209

Any tow hook I've ever bought has comes with hardware of at least grade 8 quality. A private entity such as yourself is going to have a tough time getting a tow how approved to sell unless you plan on doing it privately and with no real testing of the products. Companies that sell these things are well aware of the dangers and test these things in ways the average person usually can't. Really your insistence of marketing this one very sensitive part kinda baffles me. Why risk it unless you're a huge company that can afford a big lawsuit if something goes wrong is beyond me.

First you were going to use cast steel which is akin to saying you're going to make cast steel gun barrel. I'd abandon this idea to be honest

I don't recall any comments about product testing not being done. They will be done.

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

I don't recall any comments about product testing not being done. They will be done.

Maybe not, but in the thread that was mysteriously sucked into oblivion, you said you had already sold some, so apparently you haphazardly moved some product to make some cash in lieu of testing.
It's odd your thread disappeared after I ask you to show us the process, if any, of such testing.

[Coley]

If you are moving ahead with producing these towhooks...good on you for endeavoring.
One thing you might want to do is approach and discuss producing these through an already existing towhook forging/manufacturer.
They would already have the forging equipment in place..and the rest would be the tooling and final process required to reproduce these to shape.
A partnership might prove to be a lucrative approach.
This arrangement would be similar to someone producing an injection molded part.
What you want to pay for is just the part tooling...not the injection molding machine/equipment and there are companies out there that do exactly this for you and all you have to do is (usually) supply the 3D file of the final part and having done it on more than one occasion...I know this first hand.
Whatever you do....don't let people shut you down on a responsible end goal or positive business idea.
Working in engineering I run into this all the time in meetings. There are people that see a new design and spend all their verbal time either running it down or saying no or trying to market and explain why it won't work and why its a bad idea.
Its a personality type......someone who is too conservative and analytical for a successful team environment. These people are not good at progressive, independent or innovative thinking...they are 'maintainers' and administrative people and should be kept well clear of the early concept and idea stage.
These people usually last about 6-7 minutes in my meetings before I eject them.
The people that remain are those that work collectively to push an undefined or an unresolved idea into something that is useful and profitable.
My two bits.
All Good
Coley

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Coley

If you are moving ahead with producing these towhooks...good on you for endeavoring.
One thing you might want to do is approach and discuss producing these through an already existing towhook forging/manufacturer.
They would already have the forging equipment in place..and the rest would be the tooling and final process required to reproduce these to shape.
A partnership might prove to be a lucrative approach.
This arrangement would be similar to someone producing an injection molded part.
What you want to pay for is just the part tooling...not the injection molding machine/equipment and there are companies out there that do exactly this for you and all you have to do is (usually) supply the 3D file of the final part and having done it on more than one occasion...I know this first hand.
Whatever you do....don't let people shut you down on a responsible end goal or positive business idea.
Working in engineering I run into this all the time in meetings. There are people that see a new design and spend all their verbal time either running it down or saying no or trying to market and explain why it won't work and why its a bad idea.
Its a personality type......someone who is too conservative and analytical for a successful team environment. These people are not good at progressive, independent or innovative thinking...they are 'maintainers' and administrative people and should be kept well clear of the early concept and idea stage.
These people usually last about 6-7 minutes in my meetings before I eject them.
The people that remain are those that work collectively to push an undefined or an unresolved idea into something that is useful and profitable.
My two bits.
All Good
Coley

So I guess it would be end of meeting if you were to eject the individual with a poor idea? Six to seven minutes seems hardly enough time for a thorough discussion before coming to a decision to eject a person. Definitely a team I don't want to be on.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by dazza

Maybe not, but in the thread that was mysteriously sucked into oblivion, you said you had already sold some, so apparently you haphazardly moved some product to make some cash in lieu of testing.
It's odd your thread disappeared after I ask you to show us the process, if any, of such testing.

You have me chuckling now. This is almost as bad as the telephone game. I never said I sold any. The thread disappeared because of admin. I took my family out of town for an extended weekend and came back with no access to the thread. You can thank them for deleting the thread. I'm I could be wrong, because I'm not used to starting threads, but I doubt normal users can delete threads.
Thanks for adding to the assumptions though.

[dazza]

And how can one eject people if he/she themself is not a 'administrative' person?

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

You have me chuckling now. This is almost as bad as the telephone game. I never said I sold any. The thread disappeared because of admin. I took my family out of town for an extended weekend and came back with no access to the thread. You can thank them for deleting the thread. I'm I could be wrong, because I'm not used to starting threads, but I doubt normal users can delete threads.
Thanks for adding to the assumptions though.

No, you definitely said you had already moved a few.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by dazza

So I guess it would be end of meeting if you were to eject the individual with a poor idea? Six to seven minutes seems hardly enough time for a thorough discussion before coming to a decision to eject a person. Definitely a team I don't want to be on.

Six or seven minutes is long enough if people are bring false quotes and assumptions on what's supposedly already taken place.

I brought this up with a question... What are the original tow hook specs?

You're ejected.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by dazza

No, you definitely said you had already moved a few.

Nope sorry. It's hard to sell something that has yet to be produced. Why else would there be an on going discussion and questions about original specs and sort?

I did in fact say that I have sold on this forum before because I was being accused of "marketing" and not being a paying member. Which in response I said that I have been a paying member in the past when selling parts. You can search my user name and see the hooks that I have sold inside this forum. It's easy to do. So please make sure you have facts before making your untrue statements public.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by Coley

If you are moving ahead with producing these towhooks...good on you for endeavoring.
One thing you might want to do is approach and discuss producing these through an already existing towhook forging/manufacturer.
They would already have the forging equipment in place..and the rest would be the tooling and final process required to reproduce these to shape.
A partnership might prove to be a lucrative approach.
This arrangement would be similar to someone producing an injection molded part.
What you want to pay for is just the part tooling...not the injection molding machine/equipment and there are companies out there that do exactly this for you and all you have to do is (usually) supply the 3D file of the final part and having done it on more than one occasion...I know this first hand.
Whatever you do....don't let people shut you down on a responsible end goal or positive business idea.
Working in engineering I run into this all the time in meetings. There are people that see a new design and spend all their verbal time either running it down or saying no or trying to market and explain why it won't work and why its a bad idea.
Its a personality type......someone who is too conservative and analytical for a successful team environment. These people are not good at progressive, independent or innovative thinking...they are 'maintainers' and administrative people and should be kept well clear of the early concept and idea stage.
These people usually last about 6-7 minutes in my meetings before I eject them.
The people that remain are those that work collectively to push an undefined or an unresolved idea into something that is useful and profitable.
My two bits.
All Good
Coley

Thank you. It's much appreciated. I have lawyers involved in this endevor as well, as there is safety in a multitude of counselors.

[Gromit]

Your question about the bolts; judging from that Putnam case the lawyers for the bolt company will grill you as to whether or not you included any instructions for the end user with your product about which size and grade of bolt, nuts and washers to use and what tightening torque; they would likely argue the tow hook and fasteners are a system.

What I find interesting in your thread is the opportunity to learn a little more about engineering from many perspectives so I'm rooting for your project and the way you are going about it (plus I'd be a likely buyer of your eventual product if it met my expectations).

If you live near a University with an engineering school you might consider posting on a Bulletin Board at the school an invitation for a Mechanical Engineering student to help you out. Students often are looking for projects like yours. For example the student might have free access to a 3D scanner and Finite Element Analysis software and they could use those to build a 3D model of your OEM tow hook and run the FEA on it.

Also if you Google "Finite Element Analysis" and "Tow Hook" you get some interesting results.. Academic Papers on your exact topic; also unrelated but some cool B-52 aircraft towing hooks; and some state of the art 4WD Offroad modern stuff as well. Also there is a lot about crane hooks that looks pretty well established and tested so maybe one of those manufacturers would be logical.

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by Gromit

Your question about the bolts; judging from that Putnam case the lawyers for the bolt company will grill you as to whether or not you included any instructions for the end user with your product about which size and grade of bolt, nuts and washers to use and what tightening torque; they would likely argue the tow hook and fasteners are a system.

What I find interesting in your thread is the opportunity to learn a little more about engineering from many perspectives so I'm rooting for your project and the way you are going about it (plus I'd be a likely buyer of your eventual product if it met my expectations).

If you live near a University with an engineering school you might consider posting on a Bulletin Board at the school an invitation for a Mechanical Engineering student to help you out. Students often are looking for projects like yours. For example the student might have free access to a 3D scanner and Finite Element Analysis software and they could use those to build a 3D model of your OEM tow hook and run the FEA on it.

Also if you Google "Finite Element Analysis" and "Tow Hook" you get some interesting results.. Academic Papers on your exact topic; also unrelated but some cool B-52 aircraft towing hooks; and some state of the art 4WD Offroad modern stuff as well. Also there is a lot about crane hooks that looks pretty well established and tested so maybe one of those manufacturers would be logical.

Thank you for this information. I will look into that for sure.

I know it's hard to judge people and there motive by just reading a bunch of threads. It's kind of like reading text messages. But I use some of my responses to create a passionate response, but it's just the way I get people to share their perspectives. It's like a round table discussion and sometimes you have to play that devils advocate to get people to talk, and while their talking you're taking notes. And many times people have valuable things to bring to the table, just like your University idea.
That's what I do like about these threads.
Thanks again

[dazza]

Originally Posted by Sweet 72

Thank you for this information. I will look into that for sure.

I know it's hard to judge people and there motive by just reading a bunch of threads. It's kind of like reading text messages. But I use some of my responses to create a passionate response, but it's just the way I get people to share their perspectives. It's like a round table discussion and sometimes you have to play that devils advocate to get people to talk, and while their talking you're taking notes. And many times people have valuable things to bring to the table, just like your University idea.
That's what I do like about these threads.
Thanks again

Maybe it's just me, but where I come from, that's usually referred to as deceit. Maybe that word is a bit harsh, but it surely is a form of trickery.

[dennislbrooks]

Do the stock hooks mount with 1/2" bolts? If so shear strength is about 60% of tensel --.6 x 120000 = > 70K shear ------ there are 2 bolts. And I probably would put a thick washer with locknut on the inside of the frame ------ I say include instructions of the proposed strength of the hook (less than yield) -- in instructions suggest strongly the use of Grade 8 bolts with flat washers/lock washer and let buyer procure them -- then a disclaimer for misuse/improper mounting.

Again price/quality will help my determination of buying. And with NO GM logo or part number --- because of a lack of info we cannot find from GM on their hooks-- I doubt they want anything to do with them anyway. My thinking is that the description is they will fit certain model years. Of course consult with your lawyers.

goodluck

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by dazza

Maybe it's just me, but where I come from, that's usually referred to as deceit. Maybe that word is a bit harsh, but it surely is a form of trickery.

Well if I was being deceitful it wouldn't be harsh, but where have I deceived anyone?

[mike16]

it gotten kinda silly this thread.. I recall some one posting a threat to manufacture and sell replica hooks at an autrageous price. they were cast iron ore something like that. I seemed to me that for the price they were asking , the hooks should have been forged simple to replicate the safety feature as well. Somebody els suggested that maybe plastic ones wer justified if it was only for appearence.

there is a safety factor involved, I dont think cheap cast iron or plasic are the way to go. and maybe they will be used and maybe they ont ever be used but I would be outraged if myself or somebody else was injured because of some short cut on safety was taked to bring these parts to market.

I dont get it. I can buy tow hooks, forged steel ones made in china, for about 14 bucks a pair. Why cant we make them here in the USA and charge 50, 75 or even 100 bucks a pair. and still allow the horrible price gouging that the market allows.

the level of exploitation in this market is what offends me the most. I cannot believe somebody would start pumping cheap knock off substandard parts into the system. Now the whole market is ruined. I was interested in buying hooks new or used for my truck, now.....never at any price because the markey is contminated with forgeries.....rather than forged parts. You ruin the market when you pump fakes into it. the good new istal I can now spend that money soe where else. too bad for the hook market

[Sweet 72]

Originally Posted by dennislbrooks

Do the stock hooks mount with 1/2" bolts? If so shear strength is about 60% of tensel --.6 x 120000 = > 70K shear ------ there are 2 bolts. And I probably would put a thick washer with locknut on the inside of the frame ------ I say include instructions of the proposed strength of the hook (less than yield) -- in instructions suggest strongly the use of Grade 8 bolts with flat washers/lock washer and let buyer procure them -- then a disclaimer for misuse/improper mounting.

Again price/quality will help my determination of buying. And with NO GM logo or part number --- because of a lack of info we cannot find from GM on their hooks-- I doubt they want anything to do with them anyway. My thinking is that the description is they will fit certain model years. Of course consult with your lawyers.

goodluck

Yeah there isn't going to be any GM part number or logo on them. They will be obvious by stamping they are reproductions.