Some concept ideas on soon to post build thread

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by lynx5653

Here are a couple pics of trucks on a c10 chassis using ezchassis swap kits, they may not be in the weeds that a lot of you guys seem to like but for us that like our trucks to look like trucks I think they look great.

Lynx - that Panel truck is on a C10 with EZ kit ? Any deatils on the build or truck ?

thx

[lynx5653]

that panel looks great. I plan to put my 55 and my 58 on c10 chassis with ezchassis kit. my 55 is on a c10 right now but previous owner didn't use the kit and it sits to high but to me it is not that bad.
Did you see pics I posted in your thread of trucks on the c10 with ezchassis ?

[lynx5653]

That sub came from ezchassis face book page ,no real info on the build just a couple of pics. Sorry I cant give you more info all I can say is I feel the easiest way to get ifs and still have a truck is to use the ez kit. My 55 rides great and handles very well even with it being a bit to high this is my 55 on a c10 chassis.

[e015475]

I talked to Steve "El Polako" at Industrial Chassis about 18 months ago. He does some impressive work. I'd read an article where he'd stuffed a Jag IFS and IRS in some mid-50s sedan that'd been brought to him by a customer that bought it from one of those reality car shows (Desert Car Kings or something like that)

The conversation went something like this-

Phil "What do you recommend for my AD truck for an IFS?"

Steve "My Durango crossmember. But it isn't in production at the moment"

Phil "What do you think about the Jag?"

Steve "That's an OK way to go. Buy a complete car as a donor if you can"

That's how I started down the Jag path, but if I had it to do over I'd have to think really hard about the Industrial Chassis stuff. I dunno but the M2 stuff just looks flimsy to me - it's a truck not a compact car.

[e015475]

As far as engine/transmission choices, I have some contrarian opinions I'll share FWIW.

I've done three LS conversions: LS1, LM7 and a LM4. (I'm on my third build of the LS1- I ran it junkyard stock and boosted for about five years before I tore it down for a forged bottom end)

For something big like your truck, my preference would be an iron block, probably a LQ4 or 9. Some longtubes, a cam and a little tune will get you to 400HP pretty easy and lots of torque down low. I'd be looking for a pullout with less than 100K miles on it. Wire or cable doesn't matter but get everything you'll need out of the donor

The aluminum motors are crazy expensive for what you get. Saving 70 or 80 lbs in that truck with an aluminum block is "hauling coals to Newcastle"

Not a big fan of the stock 4L60E. I think you're going to tear it up pretty quick with a LQ4 unless you sink some money into it. I think I'd start with a 4L80e and build that to stand to the horsepower of the motor.

Let me know where you can get a good $1500 T56 for an LS motor - I'll be right over with the cash! For a fairly big truck, I think you'd be better of with an auto. You'll get tired of rowing that six speed.

Remember, it's just an opinion.............

[FAKKY]

Interesting on the engine swap deal....2nd time I've heard that.

The ls2 I think is near 400 and costing 3500
A lot of the better 6.0 variants closers to 330 and costing 2000.

But to bridge that 70hp you probably need both a CAM and better heads ......and the heads aren't cheap. Napkin mathave is like at least $1k but probably more if upgrading valve train also .......rockers Springs etc

Phil are you saying this isn't your experience?

I'm also wondering if 400HP is enough. I'm coming out of a 700hp twin turbo diesel. I rode I'm my buddy's new 2016 ford eco..... rated at 365 ...... it was a little boring to be honest. Part of that might have been traction control .........

Worst case I figure I move to FI. But gets kinda pricey

Transmission it looks like with a reworked valve body and line pressure you can have the 4l60e hold near 400..... beyond that just needs to be built accordingly . Not sure if I'm going to be able to stuff a 4l80e in there ........ trying get to pull some schematics on size differences in cases from existing t5 => 4l60 => 4l80 for example

[e015475]

Frankly, I'd be talking out of my hat if I went any further on my recommendations on the LS2 vs LQ4 - all my experience is with the 5.7L and 5.3L motor.

But, if I had to buy a cam, headers and a tune for either one anyway, I'd be inclined to start with the cheaper truck motor and spend my money elsewhere - but that's me. If you're just going to 'transplant' the motor, you might be time ahead with the LS2

I would also go fuel injected and never look back. Having said that, I have no experience with carbs for the last 20 years either, but have always had excellent results having my fuel injection motors tuned on a dyno. For drivability and reliability it is money well spent - again just my opinion

[FAKKY]

No plans to go carbureted.

Still need to do some reach on engine regarding heads and cam....also headers.
Either way it will be a 300-400 hp base ..... then just customizing

Did you just have thever original motor harness rewired for your ignition injection and trans control ...?

How are you guys deciding on engine mounts and engine and transmission position. For alignment and angle.
Don't want to be chewing up my driveline or worse because I'm out 10 degrees due to engine and trans position.

[FAKKY]

Bump.

[e015475]

I've always built my own harnesses using the instructions from LT1swap.com. There's a few posts on this forum from people who've either had theirs converted or bought a new one. A quick search would get you all the info you need.

Ditto with engine mounts - I've always fabbed my own, but I did buy some plates on ebay so I didn't have to cut them. Motor mount location requires you 'thread the needle' on how far your accessories stick out (Vette, Fbody, truck or aftermarket - all are different lengths) headers, steering, oil pan, firewall etc. The easiest way is to buy some of the sliders from Dingo as a starting point so you have some wiggle room to get everything to fit. Again, motor mounts are beat to death on the forums, and I'm always surprised how many folks don't just fab their own. The last truck I did, I put the engine on a trolley so I could move it around until I got it to fit in all the key places, then fab'd the motor mounts.

Drivetrain alignment is kind of a universal concept and not specific to old trucks. Normally put my engine tilted back 3 to 5 degrees and the nose of the diff up a corresponding amount. The Conversions and Hybrids section of LS1tech.com should have plenty of writeups

[FAKKY]

Thanks.
Guess where Im heading is haven't done this before ....... so want to get as many things checked with ideas/reseach before I jump in. The motor is still 3+ months away.

Wiring harness will be easy Ill just have the conversion done at same time as reprogaming of ECM for whatever trans I go with.

I do have concerns with transmission clearance and knowing where to exactly set it for correct drive angle. The sliders like Dingo will help to move....... but what decision points need to be made for correct clearance and angle is more what Im thinking .....

Ill see what I can find on LS1tech.com

thx for post

[e015475]

I don't know about your year of truck, but mine has a removable cover over the transmission. It was easy to fab a new cover to accommodate the transmission I used.

I spent a long time going through the "Projects and Builds" on this and other websites to get ideas for my build. I kept a file of all the builds/ideas that I liked as a reference then started accumulating parts

If you're lucky, you'll find a build similar enough to what you want to do that will give you a head start and shorten the mock-up stage. If you can't find something you like to emulate, then expect a pile of parts and some trial and error. For example, my AD frame is fairly narrow at the engine bay, and I tried a half a dozen cast manifolds and headers before I found a way to get around the headers with the steering shaft and still be able to clear the factory brake and clutch pedals.

I'd search............

stovebolt.com's Hi-Po forum
LS1tech.com Conversions and Hybrids forum
talk.classicparts.com forums
'Builds and Projects' in this forum

[FAKKY]

Thanks.

Will do more research. Thanks for links.

Hard part is when you look at the builds they might mention had clearance issues with 'X' part. But not having done it before its more the decision making ----options etc.

eg
Can you determine if a transmission will fit prior to purchase ..... example 4l60e or 4l80e. The 80 is bigger. Will EITHER fit ? Dont want to purchase a 80 if it wont fit without huge fabrication. Better to pay more on build of the 60.

Even if I find a similar build - could still be different on my truck ...... soo.....

then what are options ........ is a t56 smaller ....... I know I can pull those schematics to get an idea ....... but now you have to deal with the linkage to shift ....... any dramas with clearance there .....

Its all of those considerations that come with 'experience' of having done it a few times. like anything automotive its not that hard once you've been through it ....... but 1st time out of the gate ....... blah

[FAKKY]

Bumping this up with a few more questions. Putting together the final parts and should have my build thread started next weekend if all goes well. Meaning - teardown begins I still have a few questions/missing ideas and components. Appreciate everyone chiming in with their recommendations.

REAREND.
Custom new solution is around $3k to $3500 delivered. Any cheaper options ? I see people putting in older camaro rears - but Im not sure. How do you know if it will fit and work (alignment to perches, width, wheel well etc) and how to know if strong enough to hold 400HP.

RADIATOR (INTERCOOLER) and AC.
Once the engine gets in - want to put in a good radiator and have room for AC condensor as well as have room for optional intercooler (turbo) later. Thoughts on how to approach this.

FUEL PUMP
I see a lot of intank pumps for LS SWAPS. I was thinking of using something like a FASS - anyone used something similar ? OR better ideas ?

STEERING COLUMN.
Was planning on using factory. Any reason not to ? Just like the look. I see a lot of people use tilt aftermarket columns though.

BRAKES
Really want to avoid a CPP kit. Also have to decide on firewall or frame mount. Any recommendations. Im leaning to a firewall mount as I cant think of a good reason to go with frame mount given Ill be doing a LS swap.

STEERING.
Will be a Rack and Pinion from a dodge dakota. Industrial Chassis IFS swap.
But what PS pump should I use - the one off the LS engine donor ?

DOOR LOCKS/LATCH.
Saw the bear claw locks for like $350 - anything else not so expensive ? Just get LMC replacement or ???

IGNITION SWITCH.
Haven't looked into this at all - anythign cool out there ? Keep it simple key ? remote Start ?

AC
Use the AC unit off the LS Swap donor truck ?
Guess its going to depend onm how brackets/fitment work out ...... else a smaller aftermarket AC compressor etc ?
Which kit for condensor, accumulator, evaporator etc - Vintage Air is all I hear but like $2500.

PAINT
Best paint for frame/under carriage ? Been using POR15 before - its ok.

SOUND INSULATION
Which product - and where had most effect on these trucks Floors obviously ... doors ? Roof ?

[FAKKY]

Just got back from pullapart from pulling parts for my front suspension. Common guys lets hear opinons

Terardown next weekend and start build thread.

[Rude Dude]

On rear end selection what is needed to figure out what size tire and wheel are you going to use. Is rear suspension going with stock leafs, four link, bags. The rear end size (width) next plays into this if you are going with large wheels you will have consider tubing cause a panel has less space in the fender area then a standard truck with bed. The rear normally used is 60 to 62 inches is about right without mods. I can tell you 58 wide mounting surface needs little tubs and one inch spacers on my truck. So I know the panel will be a bear to figure out. Any 8.3 or 9 inch will handle the HP even GM Camaro can do that just take into account gear ratio and wheels size needs to be programmed into your ECU. The gear set of 3.73 gears is what a lot of builds use like your planning try look at ford explorer the rear are 59 to 60 inches wide come with posi and disc brakes.

[Rude Dude]

This guy explains a funny way on installs of LS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Amuw5gW74

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by Rude Dude

On rear end selection what is needed to figure out what size tire and wheel are you going to use. Is rear suspension going with stock leafs, four link, bags. The rear end size (width) next plays into this if you are going with large wheels you will have consider tubing cause a panel has less space in the fender area then a standard truck with bed. The rear normally used is 60 to 62 inches is about right without mods. I can tell you 58 wide mounting surface needs little tubs and one inch spacers on my truck. So I know the panel will be a bear to figure out. Any 8.3 or 9 inch will handle the HP even GM Camaro can do that just take into account gear ratio and wheels size needs to be programmed into your ECU. The gear set of 3.73 gears is what a lot of builds use like your planning try look at ford explorer the rear are 59 to 60 inches wide come with posi and disc brakes.

Thanks.
So for the most part I *think* I want the truck to look stock. So standard height and pretty much the wheels and tires Im running now. Nothing fancy there. If I was to change it up later - it wpould be to drop the front slightly .... would be the only modification I would do.

I will have a full hptuners licence for the truck so can progam ratio, trans and so on after swap.

Definately dont want to get into tubbing it on a panel. Or any truck -for now. Really just as close a direct bolt in that will handle the power. I head heard of the explorers in another thread but someone mentioned something about offset pumpkin ?

so on the rear ..... having never swapped one ..... my unknowns are

*) If a ford explorer - what years are ok and how to find this out - just measure existing (say its 60" back of hub to back of hub) and find something with same 60" wheel mounting ? IS this info online somewhere ?

*) Do I keep the stock leaf hangers on frame ? Or use the hangers from donor truck ?

*) Do I use the stock leafs ..... or leafs from donor truck ?

Im guessing the answer is if I use the leafs from donor truck and they arent same length then will need new hangers ...... so any rerason to not use whats currently on the truck ?

*) Which Master Cylinder / Proportioning valve would I go given rearend out of 1 truck (say explorer) and front is dakota from a 93

etc

[Rude Dude]

Remember the closer you choose the width that you want the less expensive it is then narrowing the rear end then adding disc brakes. You say you are going with Industrial Chassis front how about using the rear from a Dakota it is the same bolt pattern as a Ford. Do your research and look at the builds such as Dan from Pasadena his truck is getting a Ford 8.8 mustang same as Explorer and if you want Chevy here is just a few:

Outside
Width Year Model

58.00 1978-1988 Chevy Malibu, Monte Carlo
60.00 1955-1964 Chevy Car
60.00 1967-1969 Camaro
60.25 1968-1979 Chevy II/Nova
60.50 1964-1967 Chevelle
62.00 1955-1959 Chevy Pickup
62.50 1970-1981 Camaro/Firebird

[Rude Dude]

You posted you will be running your wheel and tires so I see wheel adapters in our future Dakota's are 5 lug.

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by Rude Dude

Remember the closer you choose the width that you want the less expensive it is then narrowing the rear end then adding disc brakes. You say you are going with Industrial Chassis front how about using the rear from a Dakota it is the same bolt pattern as a Ford. Do your research and look at the builds such as Dan from Pasadena his truck is getting a Ford 8.8 mustang same as Explorer and if you want Chevy here is just a few:

Outside
Width Year Model

58.00 1978-1988 Chevy Malibu, Monte Carlo
60.00 1955-1964 Chevy Car
60.00 1967-1969 Camaro
60.25 1968-1979 Chevy II/Nova
60.50 1964-1967 Chevelle
62.00 1955-1959 Chevy Pickup
62.50 1970-1981 Camaro/Firebird

Interesting.
Seems like I could find a 8.8 housing of correct width ...... and then add the following.

http://www.americanmuscle.com/yukon-...e-88-posi.html $500

http://www.americanmuscle.com/srperf...xles-0514.html $270

Gears/Pinion around $150.

Then that would put the build around $1200 instead of the $3k I was looking at for a built 9" 3rd member.


Still need to work out the braking and the leafs/hangers. Taking a look under truck the leafs run VERY linear close to frame and not much curve. Not sure if I grab new leafs and hangars plus potentially a shackle flip how much that will alter the ride height. Everything I've done before on this type of deal has just been a kit .......... going to need to find some good build threads on people that have done this before I guess.

Proportioning valve for brakes ?

etc

[Rude Dude]

8.8 are already posi and axles are pretty strong look at early 2000 models on craigslist seen them as low as two hundred dollrs

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by Rude Dude

8.8 are already posi and axles are pretty strong look at early 2000 models on craigslist seen them as low as two hundred dollrs

Thanks RD.



So whjos got some input on the otgher stuff .......
cleaning down the controlarms and giving everyting an electrolyis bath during week ready for repaint ......

[dsraven]

For ls swap, buy a complete wreck, take what you need, when done and running scrap the left overs. That way you get a matched engine, trans, ecm, wiring and fuse panel, steering column, rad and fans et etc.insurance write off lot is a good plce to start. Copart?

[FAKKY]

Originally Posted by dsraven

For ls swap, buy a complete wreck, take what you need, when done and running scrap the left overs. That way you get a matched engine, trans, ecm, wiring and fuse panel, steering column, rad and fans et etc.insurance write off lot is a good plce to start. Copart?

Yes planning to buy full truck so I can scavange other parts if required. But if I cant find one at very mimum will be matching engine/trans/pcm.

I might buy new wiring harness - or if I want to save $500 will rewire myself.

Steering column really want to use eitehr stock or some vintage look. Radiator will be determined by fit/clearance of space I guess.