gm crate engine question

[saxart]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

thanks for the info..I just called the place on Ebay, "Radley GM wholesale" I am ordering the engine from them with the new damper,bolt and washer for $1451.27 out the door....can't believe free shipping from Virginia to Cal.....great deal, I called my local chevy dealer , they wanted over $1900.00 just for the engine, not including damper

Jim-
That's awesome. Make sure you post some pics when it shows up. I'm curious how they pack these things. Also, do they charge sales tax when you buy these engines?

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by truckster

No disrespect intended, but for a street engine 4 bolt vs. 2 bolt is not going to make any difference. The cam in the stock Vortec is also perfectly adequate to make 300 HP with a good 4 barrel and decent exhaust. And the Vortec is going to last a very long time in stock form.

Exactly, I don't understand why people think you need to change the cam in these motors. I just got out of my 1970 C10 with the L31-R 4 bolt version with the factory cam and I'm still grinning. I have a Holley four barrel with long tube headers and MSD ignition. This motor will flat out run, I have a hard time getting started with my open rear but from a rolling start it always puts a grin on my face.
I don't try to destroy my truck but I built it to have fun and I do have a lot of fun.

[garyd1961]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

thanks for all the good info. I think I will go with the 195 hp 350....

I think that's a good truck motor, not over cammed and should have good torque. Just be sure to use a zinc additive when you change oil.

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by saxart

Jim-
That's awesome. Make sure you post some pics when it shows up. I'm curious how they pack these things. Also, do they charge sales tax when you buy these engines?

no sales tax, unbelievable price!

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by garyd1961

I think that's a good truck motor, not over cammed and should have good torque. Just be sure to use a zinc additive when you change oil.

do I need to use a zinc additive , since I run delo 400 ?

[67ChevyRedneck]

Yes, it used to be in all oils but has been phased out over the years. Some brands still have it, I think Valvoline might make an oil "for older cars" that still has it, I think Rotella still has it, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I've been running this stuff in my 350 and ford 289 for years. You only need one per oil change.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...=zddp&_sacat=0

[El Dorado Jim]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Yes, it used to be in all oils but has been phased out over the years. Some brands still have it, I think Valvoline might make an oil "for older cars" that still has it, I think Rotella still has it, but it's better to be safe than sorry. I've been running this stuff in my 350 and ford 289 for years. You only need one per oil change.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...=zddp&_sacat=0

thanks !!!! just ordered a 10 pack, what oil should I run for the first break in oil? I know it should be a non-detergent....correct?

[James the III]

Originally Posted by RDrancher

That's a great deal, although I would get the 4 bolt version. But don't forget, in addition to the $200+ initial price, the fuel pump, flex plate/flywheel, you'll need to buy an intake too. A lot of folks already have a nice aluminum intake. If you want to upgrade the cam, that'll cost double or so compared to a non-roller. Not to mention if you want to get a cam with decent lift, you'll need to have the heads machined or run a set of these https://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spr...erf-hyd-roller.

I'm not actually arguing with you as much as detailing that it's all a matter of how much you want to spend (or can spend.) When the time comes I don't know which one I'll choose, the Pace 300 or an L31 with an upgraded cam.

The 4 bolt is 100.00 more..
the flexplate is 60 bucks.. and I'd not put a used flexplate on a new engine with a worn starter gear..
as for changing the cam.. you get 300+ h/p as is...
more than enough.. if they are looking at a 260hp 350 with smog heads.
intake is 200-250..


What does it cost to rebuild the new crate engine if you wipe a lobe?? off that flat tappet??

[saxart]

Originally Posted by James the III

What does it cost to rebuild the new crate engine if you wipe a lobe?? off that flat tappet??

Is this a trick question? The answer is nothing. It's under warranty.

[LongBox]

Engine tech has come a long way since our trucks were new. My 98 Vortec 350 will easily outrun my 69 350 4bbl, and because it has a roller, I never worry about flat lobes. I realize that the vortec heads and FI have a lot to do with the better performance, but if my 69 needed a new engine, I'd be sure to get one with a roller cam, and vortec heads. If available, I'd get one tuned for low end torque, as someone already pointed out, the engines in our trucks spend almost all their time running at low revs.

[James the III]

Originally Posted by saxart

Is this a trick question? The answer is nothing. It's under warranty.

WRONG...
Read the fine print..
warranty is if it is installed at an approved shop/dealership..
Even my g.m. vortec 4 bolt main crate engine with 3y 36k warranty states this..

You wipe a lobe.. you now out an engine..
what is cheaper.. having a shop(dealership) install and break in a smog headed flat tappet engine..
or buy the vortec for 1900.00 and diy install and not having to worry about break in other than fire it up,, and after the first running change the oil, and after 500 miles change it again..

[saxart]

Originally Posted by James the III

WRONG...
Read the fine print..
warranty is if it is installed at an approved shop/dealership..
Even my g.m. vortec 4 bolt main crate engine with 3y 36k warranty states this..

You wipe a lobe.. you now out an engine..
what is cheaper.. having a shop(dealership) install and break in a smog headed flat tappet engine..
or buy the vortec for 1900.00 and diy install and not having to worry about break in other than fire it up,, and after the first running change the oil, and after 500 miles change it again..

Are you implying that if I buy the engine and install it myself it won't have ANY warranty? According to this document, taken right off the GM Genuine Parts website, this engine would have a 3yrs/100,000 mile warranty whether installed by a dealer OR sold over the counter. I don't see any "fine print" here that says if the cam gets wiped, I'm out an engine.



"1. Parts and labor warranty when installed by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service Center (ISC).
2. Parts and labor warranty when sold over the counter and REPAIRED by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service "

[James the III]

Originally Posted by saxart

Are you implying that if I buy the engine and install it myself it won't have ANY warranty? According to this document, taken right off the GM Genuine Parts website, this engine would have a 3yrs/100,000 mile warranty whether installed by a dealer OR sold over the counter. I don't see any "fine print" here that says if the cam gets wiped, I'm out an engine.



"1. Parts and labor warranty when installed by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service Center (ISC).
2. Parts and labor warranty when sold over the counter and REPAIRED by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service "

. Parts and labor warranty when sold over the counter and REPAIRED by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service

does it say sold over the counter and installed by end user?? read #1 again.. #2 is about it being repaired and installed.

Does not say, warranty if sold over the country and installed by anyone.. it states, dealer or a ISC not joe smo in his garage at home
nope.. warranty void..

[boostedc10]

Originally Posted by James the III

. Parts and labor warranty when sold over the counter and REPAIRED by a GM Dealer or qualified installing Independent Service

does it say sold over the counter and installed by end user?? read #1 again.. #2 is about it being repaired and installed.

Does not say, warranty if sold over the country and installed by anyone.. it states, dealer or a ISC not joe smo in his garage at home
nope.. warranty void..

Actually what it says is that if it is sold over the counter and fails, you have to take the motor in to have it repaired at a GM dealer or certified repair facility.

So yes you can install it yourself and if something breaks you take it to the dealer/certified repair facility to have it fixed for 3 years/100,0000 miles.

Oh and if you repair it yourself GM will warranty the parts.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Warranty coverage is based on months/mileage, whichever comes first, and begins on the date of installation by an authorized GM dealer or by a qualified Independent Service Center (ISC). For all other over-the-counter sales, warranty begins on date of retail sale.

Funny, if there was no over the counter warranty... why does it say over the counter warranties beings on the date of retail sale? That is definitely a negative, especially for me because my motor has been sitting in my garage for 3 years, my warranty is up. If I want to spend the extra $$ to have someone install it, it starts on the date of the install. It's not a big deal if you plan to install it right away, but crap happens and before you know it, it's been 3 years

The biggest caveat us 67-68 owners have to look at is the "non cataloged" installs. The way it's been explained to me, is that if you install a 350 in a vehicle that didn't have a 350 you only get the 1 yr 12 month warranty because there was no 350 installed in trucks in 1967/68. It might be possible you could argue you replaced an existing 350 with the new motor.

If anyone wants to read the entire warranty:

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/pdf...87warranty.pdf

As always, pay attention to what it does/doesn't cover:

THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:
• Damage due to improper installation, negligence, alteration (including changes to engine controls),
accident, or improper use. Proper vehicle use is discussed in the vehicle Owner’s Manual.
• Any vehicle that has been used for racing (on or off track), stunt driving, performance testing, or used under
other extreme operating conditions.
• Any vehicle where the odometer has been disconnected or the mileage reading has been altered.
• Damage caused by lack of proper maintenance as described in the vehicle’s original Owner’s Manual/
Maintenance Schedule, failure to follow Maintenance Schedule intervals, or failure to use or maintain
proper type and levels of fluid, fuel, oil, and lubricants recommended in the Owner’s Manual/Maintenance
Schedule. Proof of proper maintenance is the owner’s responsibility. Keep all receipts and be prepared to
present them if questions arise about maintenance.
• Damage as a result of overheating, contamination or lack of lubrication.
• Damage caused by a turbocharger, supercharger, nitrous oxide, or similar product, which is not an approved
Chevrolet Performance Part or Accessory.
• Racing engines and / or their components.
• Use of components in excess of maximum torque specification.
• Damage as a result of modification / replacement of torque converter that is part of transmission assembly.
• Loss of time, inconvenience, loss of use, or other economic loss.
• Vehicles registered and normally operated outside of the United States.
• This warranty does not apply to any unit installed under the General Motors New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by El Dorado Jim

thanks !!!! just ordered a 10 pack, what oil should I run for the first break in oil? I know it should be a non-detergent....correct?

I need to research this more myself. If you look through the thread I posted earlier, Leon posted the recommended break in procedure.

There's also a bunch of GM part numbers listed for recommended parts. It's been helpful to me.

[TwoFiftyShifter]

I decided to go with the Lucas oil hot rod oil. It's about $7.50 a quart but it's got the zinc specifically for the flat tappet cams.

[Rod Run]

Originally Posted by RDrancher

That's a great deal, although I would get the 4 bolt version. But don't forget, in addition to the $200+ initial price, the fuel pump, flex plate/flywheel, you'll need to buy an intake too. A lot of folks already have a nice aluminum intake. If you want to upgrade the cam, that'll cost double or so compared to a non-roller. Not to mention if you want to get a cam with decent lift, you'll need to have the heads machined or run a set of these https://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spr...erf-hyd-roller.

Originally Posted by truckster

No disrespect intended, but for a street engine 4 bolt vs. 2 bolt is not going to make any difference. The cam in the stock Vortec is also perfectly adequate to make 300 HP with a good 4 barrel and decent exhaust. And the Vortec is going to last a very long time in stock form.

I completely agree with you truckster. The first thing I found interesting about RDrancher's post was his mention about going with the 4 bolt block. There is absolutely no reason to spend extra money for a 4 bolt main on an engine with such low horsepower. Stepping up to a 4 bolt would only be worth it (and marginally), if you were putting high HP and running high RPM's regularly.

[RDrancher]

Originally Posted by Rod Run

I completely agree with you truckster. The first thing I found interesting about RDrancher's post was his mention about going with the 4 bolt block. There is absolutely no reason to spend extra money for a 4 bolt main on an engine with such low horsepower. Stepping up to a 4 bolt would only be worth it (and marginally), if you were putting high HP and running high RPM's regularly.

I'm amazed that you guys get so uppity over paying $9 more for a 4 bolt over a 2 bolt.

2 Bolt...https://www.summitracing.com/parts/n...0282/overview/

4 Bolt...https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-12530283

[saxart]

Originally Posted by RDrancher

I'm amazed that you guys get so uppity over paying $9 more for a 4 bolt over a 2 bolt.

I think they're talking about the old-school 195hp version, not the new fangled Vortec. LOL

This brings up a question... Has anyone here experienced a cam wipe on a new crate engine? I gotta think GM is slathering these things up pretty good with Moly Lube so they don't have a BAJILLION warranty claims. Right? The reason I ask is because I'm seriously considering getting the 195hp version for my truck, but I'm kinda freaked out about burning up a brand new cam and what that will do to the rest of the engine.

[Leftlane]

I recently bought a crate from Radley through eBay.

Very good communication from both the seller and freight company.
Excellent price; which included delivery to my home in St.Louis, and liftgate dropoff at my garage.
Couldnt be more satisfied.

[garyd1961]

The old 195 hp flat tappet version is a good motor as long as you keep zinc in the oil but it isn't even close to the vortec engine. With the vortec you get more power, better gas milage, and longer engine life. The vortec will go past 250,000 and still be running strong.
As for changing the cam in the vortec engine I wouldn't do it unless I was putting the motor in a lighter vehicle. The factory cam works great for these 4000 lb trucks but If I was going to change the cam I would pull the heads and have a machine shop cut down the valve bosses, add better valve springs, and install screw in studs. Then I would get something with a 490 or so lift. Anything else is a waste of time and money in my opinion.

[truckster]

Originally Posted by RDrancher

I'm amazed that you guys get so uppity over paying $9 more for a 4 bolt over a 2 bolt.

I didn't say anything about price... just that it wouldn't make any difference on his application.

And if you're building a high-horse motor, splayed 4-bolt is the way to go.

[davepl]

So far, for the Vortec, it looks like Amazon is the cheapest, plus it includes free shipping.

https://smile.amazon.com/GM-Parts-12...words=12530282

It still ships from a GM dealership.

[saxart]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-OEM-NEW-E...xX-7Zl&vxp=mtr


Radley Chevrolet is the seller on Amazon, but they are cheaper on their eBay auction. (By a few bucks only)