Calling all slicers and dicers

[hewittca]

Originally Posted by cooperhw

To be perfectly honest with you "I am not all caught up in that lay pinch, lay frame, etc. jazz". I am simply trying to get my truck down, on a somewhat reasonable budget, to where it looks good. I do plan to trim off that little 1.5 inch or so of belly under the cab, maybe, if needed.
As to the bed, it will bolt right back onto the same bed mounts just like the cab and core support. The frame has not changed, other than moving the 3 foot section that carries the front crossmember and A-arms.

I am just seeing this as a cheap way to lower the truck by utilizing my spare frame.

Oh I see. I thought in your original drawing you had the rear frame section Z'ed as well. If you don't do anything to the rear frame or bed, you are going to have a huge built in drop up front with only about 6"-7" of available suspension drop in rear. Otherwise, you have to raise the bed floor.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by hewittca

Are you talking about the pinch weld? I've seen trucks with that section trimmed up so it's level with the fender and bed rockers so they will lay flat. To me it looks funny, but that's just me. I do know, however, that to even lay pinch weld on the cab, you have to do a .75" body drop because the frame hits the ground before the pinch. If you trim that off, you will have to drop the body even further.

Originally Posted by hewittca

Oh I see. I thought in your original drawing you had the rear frame section Z'ed as well. If you don't do anything to the rear frame or bed, you are going to have a huge built in drop up front with only about 6"-7" of available suspension drop in rear. Otherwise, you have to raise the bed floor.

I should now post up that picture 1,2,3 & 4 are junk. "The last pic is the one that truly shows all the plan." As to the bed floor. I always had in mind to raise it if needed. No biggie. Just work.
I am having thoughts of going up my mountain property and picking up the rear crossmember and trailing arms off of a 66 Chevy 1/2 ton frame I have sitting in the bone yard. It was hit in the front and bent quite a bit in front of the front crossmember. Anyhow, I think if I did that and did the whole axle flip kit on the back it will get me close. hang a bag between the frame and the trailing arms and up and down she goes. I should also add that I have no problem doing a c-notch in the rear if/when needed. Actually always planned to do one, just waiting to see how much.

[bluex]

The problem with squarebodies and trailing arms is the shape of the frame and the cab floor. The stock style trailing arm crossmember wont really fit well. You' d need to build some type of brackets like pictured and modify the crossmember to make it work. From your plans an I what I saw in the "homer" build I doubt it would be a problem for you. You might be better off adapting the cab to fit a trailing arm frame though. You can click the trailing arm conversion link in my signature if you want to see other pictures. I wound up having to modify this crossmember anyways....

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by bluex

The problem with squarebodies and trailing arms is the shape of the frame and the cab floor. The stock style trailing arm crossmember wont really fit well. You' d need to build some type of brackets like pictured and modify the crossmember to make it work. From your plans an I what I saw in the "homer" build I doubt it would be a problem for you. You might be better off adapting the cab to fit a trailing arm frame though. You can click the trailing arm conversion link in my signature if you want to see other pictures. I wound up having to modify this crossmember anyways....

Thanks for the info. I can't see the pics here at work but will check them out tonight when I get home. I am not set in stone on anything yet for the rearend. Just gathering ideas at this point and trying to shy away from spending more on the rear suspension that I have in the whole truck.

[tinydb84]

If you do a 6 inch Z I'm not sure you will have enough lift to clear your tires when turning. You would have to lower your engine back down to run a hood and your distributor will hit your fire wall.

It could be done in theory but it going to be more work overall.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by tinydb84

If you do a 6 inch Z I'm not sure you will have enough lift to clear your tires when turning. You would have to lower your engine back down to run a hood and your distributor will hit your fire wall.

It could be done in theory but it going to be more work overall.

I am not quite understanding what you mean by "lift to clear your tires when turning". As far as I know the tires never go under the frame rails. do they?
I think they turn in towards the frame rail but do not touch. Am I missing something here?
As to the firewall, I don't see a problem to clearance a distributor. Maybe run a smaller Mallory unit even, with a small recess above.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the feedback. If I am making a mistake, I would rather make it on paper or in my mind, but as far as raising the tunnel and firewall, I kinda think of that as simple work compared to getting 6 inches of drop on the body.
My plan is to sit the new section of frame on top of the existing frame where the crossmember is and check all clearance before cutting on my original frame.

[tinydb84]

No worries man I'm not being negative and I don't think you are.

The lift clearance I'm taking about is the front fenders lifting high enough so that your tires won't rub the fenders when you turn. I am going to have to shorten my control arms to tuck the tires in because my tires rub my fenders when turning.

I lowered my engine after Zing it. Saved a lot of tunneling. I'm going to probably need to lift it a bit because I didn't account for the forward sump difference between my oil pans.

I really think a regular Z of 2 inches will be the least about of work and we know there aren't many hidden issues that will arise. I know you are concerned about it being straight but I don't think you will have a problem.

I would also move your front wheels forward when you do it either way. My tires barely clear the firewall and I moved my wheels forward an inch.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by tinydb84

No worries man I'm not being negative and I don't think you are.

The lift clearance I'm taking about is the front fenders lifting high enough so that your tires won't rub the fenders when you turn. I am going to have to shorten my control arms to tuck the tires in because my tires rub my fenders when turning.

I lowered my engine after Zing it. Saved a lot of tunneling. I'm going to probably need to lift it a bit because I didn't account for the forward sump difference between my oil pans.

I really think a regular Z of 2 inches will be the least about of work and we know there aren't many hidden issues that will arise. I know you are concerned about it being straight but I don't think you will have a problem.

I would also move your front wheels forward when you do it either way. My tires barely clear the firewall and I moved my wheels forward an inch.

Thanks man. I am def. not trying to be negative nor do I think you are. I am actually trying to wrap my mind around all of the pros and cons. I am actually thinking I would rather notch into the cab for clearance on the back side of the tires. You do bring up a good point of tires rubbing the inside of the fenders. Is this only an issue when you are aired out all the way? Could some of this be corrected with different size tires/wheels? I don't have any yet so I can buy any size/offset needed when I get to that point. I saw a post once where a guy moved the wheelwell opening up a couple inches and forward with a little sheet metal surgery. Matched the back openings perfectly. It was cool.
Later,

I really do appreciate the feedback as you are the kinda guy I am wanting to bounce my crazy ideas off of.

[HAULIN' IT]

Originally Posted by cooperhw

I saw a post once where a guy moved the wheelwell opening up a couple inches and forward with a little sheet metal surgery. Matched the back openings perfectly. It was cool.

You have this backwards...look at your truck or simply a photo of one. The fronts ARE the high ones. Im not sure which truck you are referring to but I remember this guy LOWERING his fronts to match the back:
https://www.facebook.com/DV8customs

Not for the purpose of "blowing out your candle" but you need to step back & look at some basic things. As others mentioned, 6" is a bunch from one area & the biggest offender isn't the frame...it has a rather nice rise/hump fore & aft of the suspension. The suspension itself is the biggest waste of inches followed by the frame & then the body mounting. Lets face it, these trucks were made to haul stuff in them. They needed clearance between parts, thick/tall metal to carry the weight, ect.

Nothing wrong with dreaming, however to be blunt...I think you need to go stand in front of a mirror & ask yourself: "Do I have the knowledge, tools/equipment to pull this off? Is THIS really THE best plan?" Then come back on here & report

Your last picture simply can't work...you were closer in the beginning. Look where the centerline of the front tire would be off the ground...& the back? Look at it this way: Why do companies make & guys do C-notches? To get clearance above the rear axle with the frame lower. The only way yours could maybe work would be to put the axle above the frame...No don't do that, I'm kidding! Where would the transmission be? How much clearance is between the trans tunnel & the bottom of the dash? Not 6"
Hewittca had it figured!

A 2" bodydrop on these trucks works out real well & can be done where only the rather knowledgeable Chevy truck guy will even notice. Another 2" here & a couple more there & now you have something that can work. A flip on the rear, lower the frame on the spring hangers, ect. & you are 8"-9" lower. Maybe go to the trailing arm deal, you still need something to "fix" the problem of: Tire is XX tall, center is basicly half that...this is where the axle tube is going to be. How can we get everything down there? Haven't figured any staggering of the frame like Hewittca did.

There is NOTHING wrong with the original steering column...spend the money on spindles or something that you would spend on that Flaming River column.
By the way, shortening a steering column is a piece of cake compared to some of this other stuff. Go find a mirror! Again, I hate to be critical, however sometimes I think thats what is needed. Lorne

[hewittca]

I think Lorne brings up a few good points, but I do have to disagree with him on one point. There is a truck with raised wheel arches:




I personally do not like the look, but it can and has been done. There are, however, plenty of slammed trucks out there with the right suspension setup and wheel dimensions to allow for full lock to lock steering with no rubbing.

Back to what Lorne was saying, I agree in that you need to decide where you want to be suspension wise from an outside perspective, and then see what's out there on the market already to get you there. For me, I want the wheel well arches right at the top of my 22" rims. That puts me at 7-8" static drop. With sectioned front cross member, spindles, drop blocks, my rear stepped frame and bed raise, and springs all around I can get there. Then, if I want slammed on the ground, I can add bags and I'll be there, no need for any serious frame Z-ing. So even if you just want a static dropped truck, you can get as low as practically possible to drive without Z-ing. If, on the other hand, you just want to do it that way, I suppose anything is possible.

[cooperhw]

Well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Fellas,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I don't even want to "reply" to any one person on this issue. I was asking if "anyone had done something similar". Many have chimed in and told me the reasons it can't be done, but, I disagree. Well, maybe, it can, and maybe it can't.
Anyhow, we will see won't we?
If it is not possible, I will post at the end of the build, and let everybody know that you were right, could not be done. If not, I will show you all how I overcame each and every obstacle, one at a time.
I am sure the first guy to Z notch his frame (something I am not especially in favor of due to possibly losing strength) was told he was crazy and that he should not do it. Well, there's lots of em out there, and I have not heard too many stories of frames splitting in half and killing all on board. Not saying it hasn't happened, just that I have not heard of it.
So, without further ado.
Original frame crossmember coming out after adding some steel to keep it spread apart.

[cooperhw]

Warning you guys right now, if you are squeamish, look away.

[cooperhw]

A few more just to ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,,,,,you know.

So, I guess, now, instead of asking "What do you think"?

Now it has changed, to "look at what this crazy dude in Arizona is trying to pull off".

Yes, I know, I have opened up a whole can of worms, and have put myself right in line for a bunch of work. But, I have also
"Dropped the front of my truck in the front 6 inches in one day for about $100"
I could bolt my control arms back on (won't be doing it) with the stock coil springs, drop the rear end 8 inches with a few parts, and have effectively got a 6/8 inch drop.

What really cracks me up the most about most of the replies is that "they came from people who have NEVER TRIED THIS TYPE OF A MOD, yet they want to tell me all the ways and reasons it will not work.

P.S. Of course there has been no work done in front of the crossmember as I only got a far as getting the crossmember up in place and the back section of the Step Notch ready for plating that will be done tomorrow. Inch by inch brothers.
I used to tell my wife "Don't hate me for being beautiful. She would reply, that's not the reason". So please guys,
My truck, my vision of a "different mousetrap", so please, like Mom used to say; if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all".

[hewittca]

First off, I apologize if I came across at all doubting you or that this could be done. I suppose somewhere along in the discussion of could it be done, we transitioned to should it be done, and that is only a matter of ones opinion (no matter how crazy it may be!). Could it be done, quite simply yes it can as long as you are willing to address all the fitment obstacles that arise. And it looks like you are answering that question for yourself, you made quick work of that front frame section! At this point, anyones opinion on should it be done is irrelevant.

So is this going to transition into your build thread? It would do justice to pull it off and then quote us who questioned your sanity at the end and say, Told ya so! I honestly am looking forward to watching this project unfold and commend you for following through with your plan. If it turns out at all like your last project, it will all work out, look great, and innovate. Good luck!

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by hewittca

First off, I apologize if I came across at all doubting you or that this could be done. I suppose somewhere along in the discussion of could it be done, we transitioned to should it be done, and that is only a matter of ones opinion (no matter how crazy it may be!). Could it be done, quite simply yes it can as long as you are willing to address all the fitment obstacles that arise. And it looks like you are answering that question for yourself, you made quick work of that front frame section! At this point, anyones opinion on should it be done is irrelevant.

So is this going to transition into your build thread? It would do justice to pull it off and then quote us who questioned your sanity at the end and say, Told ya so! I honestly am looking forward to watching this project unfold and commend you for following through with your plan. If it turns out at all like your last project, it will all work out, look great, and innovate. Good luck!

You Sir are a class act.

My "RANT" last night bothered me so much I thought about it and want to apologize for my post. I took it as an affront and I am sure it was not meant as such. So to any and all I may have offended, please accept my apology and let's "Keep On Trucking".
On this thread, I think this is a perfect time for this one to die. I asked questions and didn't like answers. Don't know why I asked, since I already had my mind made up that I could do it.
I will now post in my true "build thread" called downlow-littledough. It's in the 73-87 projects and builds. I hope they don't mind some of the pics being in both places.
Maybe a moderator could just pull the plug on this thread?
Thanks for all who have followed and offered their advice. See you in the build thread.
Wayne
So, anyone who wants to follow along come see me there