What truck do I have? For the Chevy Gods, Historians and Know it alls

['68OrangeSunshine]

Get a replacement Glove Box Door from a junkyard or vendor. One without a SPID. Paint it flat black. Then get your truck inspected. The less you confuse bureaucrats with possible clues to big international GTA rackets and scams, the happier their little gray and beige world is.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Before importing the truck we checked with state, fed. and border agencies on all requirements. But I also know I live in Commiefornia. Land of screwing the people over for $. It was 4k just to import from Canada to my front door in an enclosed carrier. We are praying everything will go smoothly when we go to DMV. Plus we made copies of the responses from said agencies. If vin was removed which I cant confirm and will ask. Was done for the paint job possibly. We do have the Canadian registration paperwork. Top rail of frame seem to match vin. on door. Will check other location of partial vin on frame tonight.

Originally Posted by randy500

If that truck ever gets a VIN inspection by any state agency it will be a mess and probably confiscated until ownership is proven. They will only look at the vin plate and the frame numbers and it's obvious the vin plate has been removed which is big trouble (aluminum pop rivets). I would get as much paperwork from original owner and take it to your state agency and have he vin verified and get a replacement vin tag. If you do it now you still might be able to satisfy whatever the state wants to prove whatever it is, do it later when you try to sell it or if for some reason somebody questions the truck it might not be so easy

[Snake Eyes USA]

We wont part it out unless it wrecks or an earthquake happens and everything falls on it beyond fixing. I will come to this fourm if we ever do.

Originally Posted by demian5

When you go to part it out, i would like dips on the air cleaner

[Snake Eyes USA]

I want to thank you for all the help if finding out what exactly this truck is. The previous owner my Step Dad. Was pretty honest about things. He loved the Cheyenne more than the GMC and converted it.
Though the SPID in glove box is wrong. I believe only 3 options do not exist on the truck. A11-tinted glass, UY1-Camper wiring, and VK2-Tool and stowage box (if it means storage box behind passenger door bottom corner of bed),
I will look under the hood for the 2nd location of partial vin. on the frame later today.
What I was thrilled about is the 400ci engine. Only has 425 original miles on it.

Again, was/is there such model truck as C1000? If its on internet it has to be right. LOL JK

Another thing my step Dad said was that the rear wheels both spin in the same direction and not like most cars that one spins forward and the other backward. I'm sure it has a name and only known this for classic hot rods.

Second, he's adamant that I use top of the line fuel with a lead fuel additive. Any idea why? Keeping engine nice and coated? Again. Im not an under the hood car guy yet. I know the basics. I'm more of a 2A freedom builder guy. I almost feel I'm not worth such a classic truck. I live close to a small airport and step Dad was also a pilot. He told me if I could to use the fuel they use for small aircraft. Beyond me. He's an old schooler.

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

All of the VIN decodes above are correct.
Your VIN plate isn't attached with original rosehead rivits. That may or may not be a problem. Randy500 makes good points.
Your SPID is from a different truck, so nothing on it applies.
Lot's of trucks built at Oshawa were for American buyers. Special-K is just having some fun with you. He was no doubt laughing to himself when he made his post. He's fun like that.

Attachment 1669972

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

I want to thank you for all the help if finding out what exactly this truck is. The previous owner my Step Dad. Was pretty honest about things. He loved the Cheyenne more than the GMC and converted it.
Though the SPID in glove box is wrong. I believe only 3 options do not exist on the truck. A11-tinted glass, UY1-Camper wiring, and VK2-Tool and stowage box (if it means storage box behind passenger door bottom corner of bed),
I will look under the hood for the 2nd location of partial vin. on the frame later today.
What I was thrilled about is the 400ci engine. Only has 425 original miles on it.

Again, was/is there such model truck as C1000? If its on internet it has to be right. LOL JK

Another thing my step Dad said was that the rear wheels both spin in the same direction and not like most cars that one spins forward and the other backward. I'm sure it has a name and only known this for classic hot rods.

Second, he's adamant that I use top of the line fuel with a lead fuel additive. Any idea why? Keeping engine nice and coated? Again. Im not an under the hood car guy yet. I know the basics. I'm more of a 2A freedom builder guy. I almost feel I'm not worth such a classic truck. I live close to a small airport and step Dad was also a pilot. He told me if I could to use the fuel they use for small aircraft. Beyond me. He's an old schooler.

C/1000? I dunno. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Allstate can't wrap their computer system around the C/10 concept either. To them, it's a 'C/1'. As long as its insured I don't care.
BBCs tend to knock on low [87] octane. My 454 loved 91 octane*. AvGas LL 100 is 100 octane with no additives like ethanol, so it's pure hi test. Expensive, as I remember. Engines built for tetraethyl leaded fuel have valves that may get burnt by no-lead fuel. A lot of builders added Stellite valves when rebuilding older heads. If you use the lead substitute, you're OK.
*I had a '67 Suburban K/10 with a PO's added 454 BBC/NP205/TH350/12Bolt 3.73 Rear with Posi-Traction. It would only run well on Premium, except it was OK on Chevron Regular, but only Chevron.
The ''Two wheels spinning'' means it has a limited-slip differential. GM's trade name for that in this vintage was Posi-Traction. "Posi'' for short.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Thanks 68.
Ha! Ive heard of Ins. companies not recognizing or renaming vehicles due to ignorance. But as long as its insured.

I understand you 90%. Some of what you said is foreign to me. But leads me in a direction to research and learn more. Thanks!
I assume BBC means Big Block Chevy and not Big Black....LOL.

Was the 400ci built to use tetraethyl leaded only or you think this is something my step Dad did after the fact?

And I already told myself. Chevron only. I love the stuff. Its always ran best on any car Ive had.

Did the truck come "posi-traction" or you think this was something step Dad did after the fact?


Time for some more research.

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

C/1000? I dunno. Maybe it's a Canadian thing. Allstate can't wrap their computer system around the C/10 concept either. To them, it's a 'C/1'. As long as its insured I don't care.
BBCs tend to knock on low [87] octane. My 454 loved 91 octane*. AvGas LL 100 is 100 octane with no additives like ethanol, so it's pure hi test. Expensive, as I remember. Engines built for tetraethyl leaded fuel have valves that may get burnt by no-lead fuel. A lot of builders added Stellite valves when rebuilding older heads. If you use the lead substitute, you're OK.
*I had a '67 Suburban K/10 with a PO's added 454 BBC/NP205/TH350/12Bolt 3.73 Rear with Posi-Traction. It would only run well on Premium, except it was OK on Chevron Regular, but only Chevron.
The ''Two wheels spinning'' means it has a limited-slip differential. GM's trade name for that in this vintage was Posi-Traction. "Posi'' for short.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Hi Bruceman.

I looked for second partial vin on frame. Would it also be on the top rail? Here is a pic.. I think the chrome support may be on top of where the vin. is. I could not find a vin. in that area. Is it only found on driver side?
Please excuse the dirty engine. Step Dad coated the chrome to protect it and we still need to detail the truck inside and out.

Originally Posted by bruceman1968

Here are the locations for the frame VIN. It will be a partial VIN.
Attachment 1669807

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

Thanks 68.
Ha! Ive heard of Ins. companies not recognizing or renaming vehicles due to ignorance. But as long as its insured.

I understand you 90%. Some of what you said is foreign to me. But leads me in a direction to research and learn more. Thanks!
I assume BBC means Big Block Chevy and not Big Black....LOL.

Was the 400ci built to use tetraethyl leaded only or you think this is something my step Dad did after the fact?

And I already told myself. Chevron only. I love the stuff. Its always ran best on any car Ive had.

Did the truck come "posi-traction" or you think this was something step Dad did after the fact?


Time for some more research.

When these trucks were new, leaded gas was normal. "Regular'' meant leaded gas, Premium was also leaded. All automotive gasoline had tetra ethyl lead in it for an antiknock compound. Not til pressured by the environmental movement of the '70s did they start phasing out lead from gas. [Lead poisoning has been traced to mental retardation in smaller doses, also madness, and death in bigger ones. Remember Caligula, the crazy Roman Emperor? Romans used lead as a condiment and ate off lead utensils.]
First it was Lo Lead, then by 1999 any lead in pump gas was illegal, or not available.
There was an auto parts store additive called "Real Lead''. One quart bottle per 20 gallon tank and you were back in business like it was 1968. I used it once on a road trip in the 200,000 mile old 292 L6 in my '68 Stepside and got a ticket for speeding -- that engine ran so well, I didn't realize how fast I was really going. But they pulled that product, too.

''White Gas'' is gas w/o any additives including lead, for campstove, gas lantern use, where auto gas would be poisonous. Coleman fuel.

So, Yes, the 400 V8 was built for leaded gas, but they all were then.

BBC: disambiguation -- I first thought it was the British Broadcasting Company, but we've been using the Big Block abbreviation for 20 years or longer. I had to look up Urban Dictionary to get the other meaning. Ha Ha.

Posi: Might be listed on SPID if original. I forget the RPO code. I swapped in a whole '69 GMC Posi axle on my '68 C/10. I had a 12 Bolt rear end rebuilt with Moser axles and an Auburn posi on my '67 K/10 Sub, and my '71 GMC Jimmy 4x4 had factory posi when I bought it in 1995. So I've done it all 3 ways.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

Hi Bruceman.

I looked for second partial vin on frame. Would it also be on the top rail? Here is a pic.. I think the chrome support may be on top of where the vin. is. I could not find a vin. in that area. Is it only found on driver side?
Please excuse the dirty engine. Step Dad coated the chrome to protect it and we still need to detail the truck inside and out.

Try looking under the P/S hose and blue juice bottle. Yes, it's stamped in the top frame surface.
[EDIT] If it's a Canadian GMC it may not have the partial VIN there.
BTW. Nice lookin' mill.

[Canuckvetter]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

Thanks 68.
Ha! Ive heard of Ins. companies not recognizing or renaming vehicles due to ignorance. But as long as its insured.

I understand you 90%. Some of what you said is foreign to me. But leads me in a direction to research and learn more. Thanks!
I assume BBC means Big Block Chevy and not Big Black....LOL.

Was the 400ci built to use tetraethyl leaded only or you think this is something my step Dad did after the fact?

And I already told myself. Chevron only. I love the stuff. Its always ran best on any car Ive had.

Did the truck come "posi-traction" or you think this was something step Dad did after the fact?


Time for some more research.

If your looking for what the truck came with for options from the factory, you can get that information. Oshawa Canada kept all the records for GM vehicles.
You can contact George Zapora at www.vintagevehicleservices.com

[Snake Eyes USA]

Thanks Canuck! The link you posted is a dead link. Can you verify? I would like to contact George.

Originally Posted by Canuckvetter

If your looking for what the truck came with for options from the factory, you can get that information. Oshawa Canada kept all the records for GM vehicles.
You can contact George Zapora at www.vintagevehiclesservices.com

[Snake Eyes USA]

Nothing under hose or bottle. Maybe be under the support bar.
Mill.? You got me there. I need to get this truck detailed. Im seeing area of rust on the chrome. I got a can of Never Dull. That stuff is magic in a can. Wow!

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Try looking under the P/S hose and blue juice bottle. Yes, it's stamped in the top frame surface.
[EDIT] If it's a Canadian GMC it may not have the partial VIN there.
BTW. Nice lookin' mill.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Feel free to slap me. The tetraethyl got me on the leaded gas. My grandparents cars were leaded. Grandma was afraid of lead poisoning and always made the men or kids pump gas. lol

I was reading and people are swearing by Red Line Lead substitute. Should I consider using this? $25 a pop per tank fill. Will be pricey. Recommend a cheaper product?

680 your a beast in the garage. Wish I would have gotten in cars back then. My school had just cancelled shop class. I took all home ec. courses and the last course was going to be shop class and cancelled due to funding. I was pissed.

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

When these trucks were new, leaded gas was normal. "Regular'' meant leaded gas, Premium was also leaded. All automotive gasoline had tetra ethyl lead in it for an antiknock compound. Not til pressured by the environmental movement of the '70s did they start phasing out lead from gas. [Lead poisoning has been traced to mental retardation in smaller doses, also madness, and death in bigger ones. Remember Caligula, the crazy Roman Emperor? Romans used lead as a condiment and ate off lead utensils.]
First it was Lo Lead, then by 1999 any lead in pump gas was illegal, or not available.
There was an auto parts store additive called "Real Lead''. One quart bottle per 20 gallon tank and you were back in business like it was 1968. I used it once on a road trip in the 200,000 mile old 292 L6 in my '68 Stepside and got a ticket for speeding -- that engine ran so well, I didn't realize how fast I was really going. But they pulled that product, too.

''White Gas'' is gas w/o any additives including lead, for campstove, gas lantern use, where auto gas would be poisonous. Coleman fuel.

So, Yes, the 400 V8 was built for leaded gas, but they all were then.

BBC: disambiguation -- I first thought it was the British Broadcasting Company, but we've been using the Big Block abbreviation for 20 years or longer. I had to look up Urban Dictionary to get the other meaning. Ha Ha.

Posi: Might be listed on SPID if original. I forget the RPO code. I swapped in a whole '69 GMC Posi axle on my '68 C/10. I had a 12 Bolt rear end rebuilt with Moser axles and an Auburn posi on my '67 K/10 Sub, and my '71 GMC Jimmy 4x4 had factory posi when I bought it in 1995. So I've done it all 3 ways.

['68OrangeSunshine]

There are cheaper lead subs additives out there. At $25/20 gallon tank you're not gonna be driving much. Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, 4th of July, and -pop- there went your budget.
With a can of Red Line at every fill up, you'd spend as much pulling the heads and getting hardened valve seats and/or Stellite valves by a machine shop. [Sarcasm here, not advice.]
I never had auto shop. I repeated electric shop, because I liked the instructor.

[Snake Eyes USA]

You are right. I ran some numbers and even for this truck to be a cruiser on weekends it will get expensive. Especially because I plan to go up and down PCH. Have a name of anuthing cheaper I could use? And to confirm. The truck has a 20 gallon tank.

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

There are cheaper lead subs additives out there. At $25/20 gallon tank you're not gonna be driving much. Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, 4th of July, and -pop- there went your budget.
With a can of Red Line at every fill up, you'd spend as much pulling the heads and getting hardened valve seats and/or Stellite valves by a machine shop. [Sarcasm here, not advice.]
I never had auto shop. I repeated electric shop, because I liked the instructor.

[Canuckvetter]

Originally Posted by Snake Eyes USA

Thanks Canuck! The link you posted is a dead link. Can you verify? I would like to contact George.

Sorry my bad too many s's. Corrected in post 35
www.vintagevehicleservices.com

[see ten]

This engine looks really fresh... and you're saying it only has 425 miles on it. If it was built, it would seem that any shop handling the heads would have installed the correct valves that would allow you to run unleaded gas. Isn't that the purpose of a leaded fuel? To cushion the valves? I'm not a mechanic... I'm just not seeing a need for a lead additive on a freshly built engine... but if your stepdad built it and he's saying it needs it... maybe he knows something I don't about the situation... On the other hand, if he paid someone to do it and has no idea what went in to it, maybe he just thinks because it's an old vehicle it needs a lead additive?

[HO455]

The lead in the gas was there to reduce valve seat wear. Since it was outlawed hardened valve seats were developed and now the lead is unnecessary. When cylinder heads are rebuilt nowadays hardened seats are generally an automatic upgrade on old heads. Worse case if they weren't installed you will erode the your valve seats over then next 20-50 thousand miles. Chevrolet and some fords were notorious for this issue in the seventies (Basically the cheaper cars).

And my two cents on your truck is NICE!

['68OrangeSunshine]

Engine looks rebuilt or, at least, highly gussied up. Painted body color, AN style hose fittings, etc. Only a mechanic could tell in person. Guessing on the internet is only guessing.
See Ten makes a point, why rebuild and not add hardened valves?
Any receipts, paperwork on the rebuild? Any witnesses? Anybody know the machine shop that did the work?
As for AvGas, looks like it's over $8 bucks a gallon!

[Snake Eyes USA]

Hi Fellas,

From what he said the engine is original but chromed out show ready and of course hoses and what not replaced. Engine was not rebuilt. Once I get it tuned and detailed I will post details and nice pics of the truck. I will also get details from him. We had little time together and the matter at hand was getting import clearance and things that still need to be done to the truck. There is an issue with brakes most pressure going to the rear and may lock up. So I have the parts but need to take it in to get the work done. Some leaks from sitting for so long.
Step Dad had a lot of vehicles and toys. This truck was his last pride and joy project. Sucks he can't enjoy it. But we all know if that truck was with him in Mexico in show condition like it is. It would get ruined by the roads and stolen for the cartel or parted out. My mission is to keep it alive and well for years to come.

[special-K]

In prior years GMC had a 1000 model, but in this series of trucks the GMCs were 1500, 2500, and 3500. The Canadian built GMC models were badged differently. They were 910, 920, and 930.

It sounds to me like, and how I read it, the 402 was an unused original crate engine. Therefore, not set up for no lead fuel. I'd either find a reasonable lead additive or just run it. If it starts smoking upon start-up it's time to do the heads. Or, do the heads now and put it all behind you. I'd just run it.

The ethanol thing is something we all have to deal with. Just run Startron in the pump gas, if it's going to sit a lot. The ethanol is not good for in storage. The idea is sooner used = good/longer it sits = bad. The additive helps. I've been fine in my '72 letting it sit about 4 months in winter with nothing added... but I should use something to be safer.

[volksworld]

the picture of the vin tag on the door frame clearly shows the 2 upper rivet holes where the cabs original larger 4 hole vin tag was attached...these were attached by the factory with rosette head rivets which at the time couldnt be purchased....so if anything was attached with regular pop rivets it was a red flag to the authorities...so what you have here is a truck that had a cab swap...and the legality of that varies state by state....some view it as you simply replaced a rusted out or wrecked cab with another one..(some want the resulting vehicle registered with the new cab numbers)...others think you stole a truck and put your #s on it....in NY if you created something like this you were supposed to show up at a dmv inspection station with titles and registrations for both vehicles and once they were sure that neither one was stolen they made both sets of numbers invalid and assigned a vin to the vehicle via a sticker on the jamb like a kit car...did most people do this? of course not they just swapped tags and drove them into the ground....cause there was no reason for anyone to really check....but once you try to bring the car into another state( or in your case another country) there are inspectors that have to look at the car to verify that is legit and thats where you might run into trouble....seen some here in NC that had pop rivet vin tags and they had to post some sort of bond to get them titled....so depending on your states procedures and the mood and intelligence of the inspectors involved "your experience may vary"

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by special-K

In prior years GMC had a 1000 model, but in this series of trucks the GMCs were 1500, 2500, and 3500. The Canadian built GMC models were badged differently. They were 910, 920, and 930.

It sounds to me like, and how I read it, the 402 was an unused original crate engine. Therefore, not set up for no lead fuel. I'd either find a reasonable lead additive or just run it. If it starts smoking upon start-up it's time to do the heads. Or, do the heads now and put it all behind you. I'd just run it.

The ethanol thing is something we all have to deal with. Just run Startron in the pump gas, if it's going to sit a lot. The ethanol is not got for in storage. The idea is sooner used = good/longer it sits = bad. The additive helps. I've been fine in my '72 letting it sit about 4 months in winter with nothing added... but I should use something to be safer.

I haven't seen Startron in this part of the country. I use Sta-Bil for storing gas in jerry cans. Lasts up to a year, but the ethanol-mix invites water and that sinks to the bottom and causes corrosion of the can's insides. So when I pump it out with a 3/8'' hose on a Holley Blue pump I have recleanable filters inline, before the fuel pump and stop and blow them out, if I see little red [fuel can liner] flakes. I have also used Sea Foam for gas storage, but it takes about half a bottle for one 5 gal jerrycan. Sta-Bil only takes 2 oz/5 gallon, so it's more economical.
As far as a lead substitute, I used to use a generic house product from Checker Auto. Now they're O'Reilly. But it wasn't that much.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Step Dad says it still needs breaking in. There is a split second of smoke when starting it up. Hums like a lion. We are waiting for customs papers before taking it to DMV. I want this truck back on the road.

Originally Posted by special-K

In prior years GMC had a 1000 model, but in this series of trucks the GMCs were 1500, 2500, and 3500. The Canadian built GMC models were badged differently. They were 910, 920, and 930.

It sounds to me like, and how I read it, the 402 was an unused original crate engine. Therefore, not set up for no lead fuel. I'd either find a reasonable lead additive or just run it. If it starts smoking upon start-up it's time to do the heads. Or, do the heads now and put it all behind you. I'd just run it.

The ethanol thing is something we all have to deal with. Just run Startron in the pump gas, if it's going to sit a lot. The ethanol is not good for in storage. The idea is sooner used = good/longer it sits = bad. The additive helps. I've been fine in my '72 letting it sit about 4 months in winter with nothing added... but I should use something to be safer.

[Snake Eyes USA]

Step Dad said plate was only taken off for repaint. I forgot to ask him about the 2 holes above the vin. plate. Im hoping the customs inspection paper work, Canadian paperwork , vin. plate and partial vin on frame will be suffice.
We did as many verifications as possible before importing. Doing it had quite a price to do.

Originally Posted by volksworld

the picture of the vin tag on the door frame clearly shows the 2 upper rivet holes where the cabs original larger 4 hole vin tag was attached...these were attached by the factory with rosette head rivets which at the time couldnt be purchased....so if anything was attached with regular pop rivets it was a red flag to the authorities...so what you have here is a truck that had a cab swap...and the legality of that varies state by state....some view it as you simply replaced a rusted out or wrecked cab with another one..(some want the resulting vehicle registered with the new cab numbers)...others think you stole a truck and put your #s on it....in NY if you created something like this you were supposed to show up at a dmv inspection station with titles and registrations for both vehicles and once they were sure that neither one was stolen they made both sets of numbers invalid and assigned a vin to the vehicle via a sticker on the jamb like a kit car...did most people do this? of course not they just swapped tags and drove them into the ground....cause there was no reason for anyone to really check....but once you try to bring the car into another state( or in your case another country) there are inspectors that have to look at the car to verify that is legit and thats where you might run into trouble....seen some here in NC that had pop rivet vin tags and they had to post some sort of bond to get them titled....so depending on your states procedures and the mood and intelligence of the inspectors involved "your experience may vary"