Ford Model A Tudor Modern Twist on a Classic

[gigamanx]

This is the first hurdle I've really scratched my head on. Done a bunch of research and came up with not a picture of example of how to overcome. Hoping I can get some feedback from you fine folks.


I planned and bought a 4 link rear suspension kit with panhard. After setting up the brackets, I realized the forward bracket is basically right where the seat is supposed to go. I need about 3" of clearance which puts my head basically out the top of the roof if I raise the floor that far. Problem two, the lower connecting point is below the scrub line and dangerously low for ride height.



I looked at converting the kit I bought to a ladder bar setup, so I only have to fit one bar under my butt. along the frame rail. What other options would there be to give me some clearance above and below the 4 link? I read that shortening the bars and moving the bracket back to maybe 12" is a really bad idea?

Current bars are 24" in length.

[gigamanx]

Something like this maybe gives me the clearance I need? Triangulated 4 link. I would just need to cut the upper bars and build new brackets for them.

[mongocanfly]

exactly what I was gonna say "triangulated 4link''...or trailing arm style

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

exactly what I was gonna say "triangulated 4link''...or trailing arm style

Thanks man. Triangulated does seem to be the right approach as the picture I posted is almost exactly the setup I'd be aiming for. I have a set of coil overs to go behind the axle with enough room to fit the gas tank also. I am trying to find some articles on where that upper mount needs to be placed on the frame as it seems there would be some geometry issues if I put it in the wrong place.

Love this guy... he talks about it a bit on how to setup the upper section...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnD40fmlKOA

[mongocanfly]

there are tons of write ups on t-4links...but the top link should be about 70% of the length of the bottom link ..so if your bottom link was 24" ,your top link should be about 16.8",,and for a street car the bars should be level and parallel

[gigamanx]

Hey all, would love to give you an update via pictures, but I've upgraded! Hope this doesn't break any rules, but I've started posting YouTube videos as I go along. Partly for updates, partly so other people can learn from things I've tried and failed at.

I'll keep posting on here for everyone but may link to videos also. Update is the install of a cross member with exhaust pass through.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjBF7trVBRo

You may notice in the intro a silhouette of a 3100. Tip-o-the-hat to my original build "Where there's a Will, there's a way!"

[Ol Blue K20]

A little late to the party but I'm in to watch.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by Ol Blue K20

A little late to the party but I'm in to watch.

Welcome to the party man!

Current state of things after finalizing and installing a triangulated 4 link suspension in the ole hot rod...

4 link suspension install: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQpCUedI8_g

[mongocanfly]

All the way thru your video I was hollering.. NO NO NO..then you added that last brace to the pinion..
I know your limited by space..With your top bars at the flat of a angle I'd take the coilovers off and check your articulation

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

All the way thru your video I was hollering.. NO NO NO..then you added that last brace to the pinion..
I know your limited by space..With your top bars at the flat of a angle I'd take the coilovers off and check your articulation

Certainly has taken a lot of thought and once I started building I could tell there was no strength in the horizontal bar. Most of the rigidity is now coming from that bolted section on the front.

I do have another issue though, maybe you have some input. I measured my angles and I have 35, 110, 35 degrees on the upper arms. I'm told that is too wide to be successful, but can't find any details on what it should be.

[mongocanfly]

My internet is acting up and I cant load what I'm looking for...I've got a bunch of stuff saved o suspension setup...I think this is one of the better ones...http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/cha...ension-design/
But with those bars spread out like that its certainly not ideal...
Where are you getting your angle measurements?

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

My internet is acting up and I cant load what I'm looking for...I've got a bunch of stuff saved o suspension setup...I think this is one of the better ones...http://www.trucktrend.com/how-to/cha...ension-design/
But with those bars spread out like that its certainly not ideal...
Where are you getting your angle measurements?

Not sure if you can see it, but measuring down the roll center and each upper arm, I get 32 degrees, 58, 58, 32.



I can find articles that suggest 30 is fine, some that say 45 is fine. Now is the time to get it right though cause once I've build a floor, seats, exhaust, it will really suck to have to change it.

[doowoppwer]

I'm in. Lots to learn.

Roger

[gigamanx]

Haven't updated my videos, but Roger reminded me I need to update you guys.

4 link was totally removed and redone. After some input including Mongocanfly, I went back to the drawing board literally. Found a 4 link calculator to do all my measurements and calculations. I'll have some videos getting posted soon, but since this is my crew, you guys get some sneak peek photos

New 4 link design. Now has a 90 degree angle between the upper links



Working on framing the car body where the wood used to go with 1 1/2x 3/4 rectangular tubing. Fits quite nicely in the gaps. Its slow going as I'm still trying to figure out where each piece mounts to both the body and itself. I also try to design it so I can remove the frame for paint and reinsert it.


Car was completely missing steering when I bought it. Purchased a full speedway kit with Wilwood brakes. Just mocking up the vega steering box under the engine so I can check clearances and alignment. Starting to look like a real car up front there


Ebay plasma cutter going strong. Really glad I dropped the $200 on that. So much easier to cut steel than a zip disk.

[gigamanx]

Falling behind on the updates, but not on the work. Each time I was almost finished making a video, I found I needed to work on some other part of the car that was in the way.

Hot summer day, got the new spindles on after painting the axle
https://youtu.be/B0ak6Q1hnSw

Working on the floor braces, aligning the body and doors, along with bead rolling practice on a new firewall.



oh, and goes to show my garage is not always a complete disaster

[gigamanx]

Bead rolling is turning out awesome on the firewall..



Also got some Wilwood brakes install.
https://youtu.be/zIbHKScvx58

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Bead rolling is turning out awesome on the firewall..



Also got some Wilwood brakes install.
https://youtu.be/zIbHKScvx58

Wow! That looks good.

[mongocanfly]

woowzers...

[gigamanx]

Firewall is in....

any suggestions on how to polish up sheet metal so its nice and slick for some primer and paint? Firewall is pretty darn smooth, but I want to be able to scuff the quilt pattern a little to clean it up and not sure what I can use. I've tried wet sanding with a scotch brite pad and that worked pretty well.



Video of the fabrication work and some bead rolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY83_m6JpIE

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by gigamanx

Firewall is in....

any suggestions on how to polish up sheet metal so its nice and slick for some primer and paint? Firewall is pretty darn smooth, but I want to be able to scuff the quilt pattern a little to clean it up and not sure what I can use. I've tried wet sanding with a scotch brite pad and that worked pretty well.



Video of the fabrication work and some bead rolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY83_m6JpIE

I think wet sanding and a little wax and grease remover should work.

[mongocanfly]

if your gonna epoxy prime it , then I'd hit it with something coarse....like 80-100g...then hit the epoxy with red scotchbrite, highbuild, then paint..
That bare metal really needs epoxy primer on it for a base..

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

if your gonna epoxy prime it , then I'd hit it with something coarse....like 80-100g...then hit the epoxy with red scotchbrite, highbuild, then paint..
That bare metal really needs epoxy primer on it for a base..

Awesome, that's the route I'm taking and the metal looks real clean. Got some epoxy primer I can spray.

Last question and thought....should I close up all the spot welds, or can I leave some gaps to fill with bondo. I think I know the answer is to do it the "right" way would be filling all the welds and grinding flat then use the bondo just to fill low/high spots only.

[mongocanfly]

Any pics of the spot welds?...if they were really visible I think I'd weld them up and grind smooth...if you used filler to fill them up then theres always the risk of your "bondo button" popping out..

[gigamanx]

Sorry man, took me a while to get back to this. I've been working on buttoning up a bunch of projects for the car...

Pictures are: Welds for firewall, Welds for rear quarter panel corner. Hoping they are enough to smooth over with bondo and give the paint a nice flat surface to bind to. Rear quarter was a pain when I ran into lead filler from an old repair. You can see the two black tack welds higher up from hitting that stuff. Gas masks on everyone!







Still pretty happy with my fabrication skills on the rear quarter so it would fit the new suspension and disk brake arrangement

[gigamanx]

Would love to share a photo of success and progress today...



Alas, this is not one of those times. After getting this far and finally being able to test fit a seat and pedals, I have concluded I need to be about 4ft 8in to fit in my hot rod. Simply not enough space and my knees are where a steering wheel would go. A combination of things need to occur. I need to move the fuel tank forward about 6" to clear the rear of the cab when lifting the cab off the frame. I'll need to cut all the floor braces I've installed to move them back 6" and snug up against the suspension. I'll need to move the lower links on the suspension back so they don't hit the floor at full compression of the suspension.

ugh!

Let the cutting begin