crate motor be better for me?

[swervin ervin]

Everyone knows that after your basic shortblock is built, that the heads are the heart of the system. But we all seem to forget that the cam can make or break the system. The heads are only as good as what the cam does to the valves.

Oh, and TBI heads suck too.

It has been proven again and again, that this Goodwrench 350 will produce 250 hp stock with only a Q-jet, aluminum intake and headers.

I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. I think what is throwing everyone off is the fact GM rates these stock engines so low. I have no idea where they come up with these numbers. I think they do it so the other more powerful crates they sell will look better. About all they do to the others, besides the ZZ4, is change the heads to Vortecs. Nothing special I see. I think it's all a marketing scheme. They figure everyone buying a Goodwrench 350 is not worrying about power, only a reliable engine. I'm guessing they think most folks think power means unreliable, so they downplay the actual hp some. They they make the other stock engines sound like they are something special, even though all they have is different heads.

It's all marketing.

I have one of these engines, so I'm not going by fake info. I know what they are capable of. I've never dynoed mine and never will, but I have used my seat of the pants dyno. I know how power is supposed to feel. I've had plenty of powerful cars before.

[79BIG10]

As a proud owner of a ZZ4 I think it would be great for you Eric. I drive mine everyday on 91 octane and no pinging. Only problem I have had is the headers being hard to find but after some research Heddman has some that fit easily and with no wire issues all for $100 uncoated.

Now if I had the time and money to do it over again I would get a ZZ4 shortblock, add a camof my choice and a aftermarket set of heads (this is somewhat of what Swervin did but later on with his GM crate), add a HEI and a roller timing chain. This way you have a good solid bottom end with quality parts and a warranty. I bet you can build it up and have it installed in a weekend. Same with the crate engine easy to add on items later but there goes the warranty. I would get the shortblock and add the items you want this way it's "your engine" not someone else's. You built it up from a short block and decided on the power range you wanted it to handle. Plus with you wanting a daily driver not a racer you can control this on the build up. But then you're back to the ZZ4- A proven winner and does exactly what I want and maybe what you want in a truck. Good daily driver and has toe power when I want it. Plus I have found a way to pump the HEI better to get more power out of it. Ignitionman sent me the specs and pics. I was suprised on much it helped. I say go for ZZ4 and be done. If you want a great deal I can get you the number of the guy I bought mine from. When I bought it I got it for $3250 shipped.

[swervin ervin]

The ZZ4 shortblock is a great product, but somewhat over priced. You cand get the same thing done at a good shop for much cheaper. Have the shop find you a good roller block and put in some good rods, pistons and a steel crank. This is all the ZZ4 is. But you can save a few bucks if you go with a standard, non steel crank. This is something not needed either, not for the street. But it does sound cool to say you have one.

Of course, buying the ZZ4 shortblock will cut out a lot of the leg work on your part. Either way, you can't go wrong.


Brandon,

not 100% sure on this, but I think I'm right. The ZZ4 longblock don't come with a steel crank. Just a nodular iron like everything else.

[TIMSPEED]

If I had it to do over again...I'd buy the ZZ4, but in my case, I have a set of those heads already that I'll be pulling off my vette soon, then I'd get the XE268 cam or something like it, and put on a holley 675 street avenger and a RPM Air-Gap intake.

[r0lf-]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
Everyone knows that after your basic shortblock is built, that the heads are the heart of the system. But we all seem to forget that the cam can make or break the system. The heads are only as good as what the cam does to the valves.

Oh, and TBI heads suck too.

It has been proven again and again, that this Goodwrench 350 will produce 250 hp stock with only a Q-jet, aluminum intake and headers.

I don't know why this is so hard to comprehend. I think what is throwing everyone off is the fact GM rates these stock engines so low. I have no idea where they come up with these numbers. I think they do it so the other more powerful crates they sell will look better. About all they do to the others, besides the ZZ4, is change the heads to Vortecs. Nothing special I see. I think it's all a marketing scheme. They figure everyone buying a Goodwrench 350 is not worrying about power, only a reliable engine. I'm guessing they think most folks think power means unreliable, so they downplay the actual hp some. They they make the other stock engines sound like they are something special, even though all they have is different heads.

It's all marketing.

I have one of these engines, so I'm not going by fake info. I know what they are capable of. I've never dynoed mine and never will, but I have used my seat of the pants dyno. I know how power is supposed to feel. I've had plenty of powerful cars before.

Yup. Guess you guys are right. 300hp at the crank doesnt seem so out of the picture if you figure in headers and intake also. I wish I had a 95 or newer motor. Guess Ill have to do my cam/head swap all at once, I have a feeling that throwing a bigger cam at these heads wouldnt make it too happy.

[ElGracho]

To crate or not to crate....

I went through this whole deal three years ago and kicked myself when I got done.

I knew I wanted a 350 4 bolt with vortec heads and had a core engine in my garage. I figured I'd save money over the 330hp crate by rebuilding what I had.

I had the block bored and torque plate honed, cleaned, and decked for .035 piston to head clearance. I bought new vortec heads, same cam as the crate engine, crane roller rockers, crank ground and polished, assembly balanced, rods resized with arp bolts etc. By the time I finished my engine, I had a bunch of time into it and about $2000.

Its true I have some parts you won't get on the crate engine, but the difference in time would make it much more worth it (to me) to have just gone and bought the 330hp crate engine for $2200.

Just my two cents...

[Izzy]

Originally posted by r0lf-
I wish I had a 95 or newer motor.

If you're thinking the Vortec motors it was 96 and up.

[racedvl]

Originally posted by r0lf-
I wish I had a 95 or newer motor.

What is the big deal about the 96 and up short blocks? Why do people want them soo much? I had 2 short blocks I wanted to get rid of because I swiped the heads off them, and I could not belive how many people wanted the bad bottom ends!

[gldevall]

Originally posted by racedvl


What is the big deal about the 96 and up short blocks? Why do people want them soo much? I had 2 short blocks I wanted to get rid of because I swiped the heads off them, and I could not belive how many people wanted the bad bottom ends!

Roller cammed and Vortec head, 1 pc rear seal. I had a 98 engine, it was a 2 bolt block, and sold it for $300....wish I would have kept it now. Actually sold it to a board member.

[Grim Reaper]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
Yes, a GM Goodwrench 350 makes around 239 hp stock. This was proven on a dyno. This was with a stock Q-jet, aluminum intake and stock exhaust manifolds. Stock cam, heads and all.

I have one, but added Edelbrock heads, a modified Q-jet, and a CompCams XE268 cam, along with a bunch of other stuff. I will put it up against anyones 350 in here.

The biggest hold back on these engines are the heads. They royally suck, but so do any of the stock emissions heads. I guess you've never read what can be done with this engine? Did you ever read the series of articles Chevy High Performance did with this thing?

http://www.73-87.com/chp/chp.htm

I had that crate in my 79 K5. 3.73 gear it was a good runner. My wifes DD. She put a bunch of punks in Honda's in the ditch with it. It would get it

You just can't build a motor better for that price. Then a 50K warranty to boot. It's a no brainer. If you not going to big HP just a good running motor that's a deal.

I have another bud that changed the cam and bolted on a TPI and been super happy with it. He does insane stuff with it. Busts axle shafts regularly.

That LT1 ebay is a sweet deal. That's the exact drivetrain I want ifI ever get a 2wd blazer. That 6 spped would be tough in a stripped down K5. I bet you could get the weight near what a loaded Camaro is if you ditch the hard top. I'd pay what they are asking for it If I had the truck. I have considered that drivetrain for my 70 LeMans. Problem is I would have to change out the springs when the Big block came out.

[LOHRTBT]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
I have one, but added Edelbrock heads, a modified Q-jet, and a CompCams XE268 cam, along with a bunch of other stuff. I will put it up against anyones 350 in here.

oooooh oooooh a challenge!! hehee I would like to know how your motor runs mike...sounds like it runs great!

after I get my tranny completely fixed....I will do a dyno run to see what my 330/380 crate makes. should be good for some mid to low 14's based on the figures and such that gldevall posted.
Then a little giggle gas for some 13 sec passes.

[79BIG10]

Originally posted by swervin ervin
Brandon,

not 100% sure on this, but I think I'm right. The ZZ4 longblock don't come with a steel crank. Just a nodular iron like everything else.

You're right Mike Not sure why they did that

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by 79BIG10


You're right Mike Not sure why they did that

http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=117


says right there it comes with a forged steel crank

[SCOTI]

The big thing about just rebuilding late model hyd.roller cam 350's is some didn't have a provision for the fuel pump boss so they require an electric pump...... no prob if you already have one, but if you don't it's another added expense. Now the ZZ4 or the HT383....or the ZZ383 do have the fuel pump boss so that could help some set-ups & minimize swap issues.

[LOHRTBT]

Fuel Pump Boss??? WTF is this?

[crackajacka]

im guessing he means the rod that pumps the fuel pump

[ElGracho]

No, it's actually the hole / raised area in the side of the block that gets machined so you can physically bolt a mechanical fuel pump to it. GM hasn't used a mechanical fuel pump since 87 or so when they phased out the last of the carbed engines, so they didn't keep updating their castings with the means to add one.

[LOHRTBT]

Mine has provisions for it. Takes a 110gph one. I have the GM 350 HO deluxe.

[ElGracho]

Originally posted by LOHRTBT
...Takes a 110gph one. ...

What you mean by this? If you're using 110 gph to make 330Hp, you are blowing a lot of raw gasoline out the tail pipe...

[gldevall]

Originally posted by LOHRTBT
Mine has provisions for it. Takes a 110gph one. I have the GM 350 HO deluxe.

That would be because the engine you have, as well as the one I have, are replacement motors for vehicles 1985 and older.

[swervin ervin]

Originally posted by ocbaud





http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...id=120&pid=117


says right there it comes with a forged steel crank

Well, I guessed they changed things around a bit. I do know several years ago, the only way to get a steel crank was to get the ZZ4 shortblock. I never could figure out why they would do it this way. They must have come to there senses and started putting them in the long blocks too.

[LOHRTBT]

Originally posted by ElGracho


What you mean by this? If you're using 110 gph to make 330Hp, you are blowing a lot of raw gasoline out the tail pipe...

You know..I wouldnt disagree with you one bit....the way it runs I wouldnt doubt it. Man I have thought it ran rich from day one. But that is what is recommended per GM.

one day I will have it running right!!
Yeah......as soon as I drop that LS1 into it!! haaha

[ocbaud]

Originally posted by LOHRTBT

You know..I wouldnt disagree with you one bit....the way it runs I wouldnt doubt it. Man I have thought it ran rich from day one. But that is what is recommended per GM.

one day I will have it running right!!
Yeah......as soon as I drop that LS1 into it!! haaha

not if you keep buying crap like your toy bicycle

[SCOTI]

Originally posted by LOHRTBT
Mine has provisions for it.... I have the GM 350 HO deluxe.

The 350 HO is considered a crate motor/replacement motor not a production motor. Did the 350HO's have hyd.roller cams or hyd.flat tappets?

[LOHRTBT]

El Gracho..You got my mind clickin again.....Something that doesent happen too often!! lol

I called up SPDC again...have done so like 20x and they never know. Well got a hold of someone that knows things on the 350 HO Deluxe.
See originally after 2-5 calls they all told me to use a 110GPH. This guy says exactly what we were thinking. WAY too much for 330 hp...but when I use N20..hell yes!! haha
So he recommended a Adj. FPR and setting it at 4.5-5psi.
Make sure timing is right ......again!! @ 10deg BTDC and 32-34 at 4k with vaccuum advance disconn.
and to get some new plugs..which I am sure they are fouled badly by now and recommended the AC Delco R44LTS Gapped at .45

SOOO...Tonight I guess I will try to get a start on all this. I am going to have to just disconn the headers so I can access the plugs which is good since I am still missing a header bolt from the original install that must be inserted first and of course I tried to do it last haha. Then I will try to get a good deal on an AFPR to fix that prob. I will report on my findings lol

The reason I posted all this is so anyone that might be having similar probs with the same motor could see it.