47-55.1 51 Chevy on a Ford Explorer Subframe - Time for a Different Frame Swap!

[dsraven]

you could also fab a bump out section that would cover all the suspension parts and have a hole, with rubber plug, to access the shock bolt. once you get the body at the right height and figure out your engine clearance you will figure it out.
I like your frame stands, it's a different version of what I did with mine. once set up, the frame ain't going anywhere unless a stand takes a good hit.
using the stock tank will save you headaches and time.
too bad you couldn't find a cheap frame rear section that you could cut at the right place and graft onto your front section. that way there would only be a single weld on each side. I suggest to temporarily weld on some lengths of angle iron or something that is long enough to accommodate the new weld in section length so the pieces will be easy to keep in line until you're done. of course you will use your machinists level but the extra parts would be a third hand. angle iron and c clamp vice grips are great.
I was at Canadian Hotrods in Tappen and had a tour a few years back. when they get their laser cut frame parts made they have little tabs on the edges to keep the parts correctly spaced for the welding process. great idea. (awesome looking frames too!). you could do the same with a flat washer tacked in the space, when the parts are correctly spaced and tacked together just hammer the flat washer out of the way.
keep posting up pics, I am sure I am not the only one who finds it interesting.

[Thadious]

Interesting thought on the bump out. I'll look into it more once I get the frame extended (just waiting for the local machine shop to bend up the 3 "C" channels that will make it up) and I'll post the drawing later (once I make sure that it all works as intended!).

The stands are made from square tubing and rebar, as the previous owner of this property had this thing about jamming 2' of rebar into the ground, another 2' piece (or longer) of 1"x1" square tubing onto it and one of those solar powered yard lights into the square tubing on the top. I don't mean a couple here or there... more like 100 or so! They were EVERYWHERE! In face, a year + later, I'm still finding them! So, lest to say, I have a nice stack of 1" tubing and short lengths of rebar, and this just helped shorten the stack just a little.

Add a piece of pipe at the top with a 3/4" nut welded on, then a chunk of all-thread, a nut and washer welded to the top and machined flat. Makes for a good support stand!

I had considered a second frame, but it would be a hassle to find another exploder, strip it down again and do the whole thing over again. With an inside sleeve, all welded in and the two additional C channels, it will still be 50%+ stronger than the original frame in that section and considering it was a boxed frame to begin with, plenty strong for this project.

The jack stands are tacked to the frame sections, so they aren't going anywhere and when cut, the frame doesn't drop or collapse in any way. The benefit of having a brace so close to the cut at both sections. The insert sleeve will also ensure alignment, both side to side and up and down. The internal section of each half of the sleeve is 11" with an additional 4" for the new make up section (essentially 26" in length).

As far as alignment and pulling it all together, the final adjustments (the fine one) is accomplished by welding a nut at the after end, a length of all-thread, through a small piece of pipe (welded to the forward end) with nuts on either side of the pipe. This will allow the frame to be pushed together and pulled apart with much easier precision than a clamp or (gasp) hammering it. Then just cut off the parts later and grind flush.

I'll post a picture later of my setup. The intention of this is to get a good solid backed weld, ground flush and made to not be noticed, without sacrificing one iota of structural integrity!

[dsraven]

Just a thought on ride height. The front suspnsion is likely engineered to work with the lower control arms sitting level with the truck at ride heighy, like when its got the weight of the truck, a tank of gas etc, but no payload. If your "new" body weighs less than the original one then the suspension will lift the frame higher and the steering geometry may be outta whack. As the control arm moves up and down through it's arc the lower ball joint moves further away from the frame until it reaches its midpoint, when the control arm is level, then the ball joint moves closer to the frame as the suspension continues through its arc. In order to get good handling and proper alignment you may need to mess with the springs to achieve originally engineered ride height. When I did mine I installed some suspension "pins" to lock the suspnsion at ride height with the original body still on. When all done with the swap I'll remove the links (basically square tube linking the upper and lower shock mounts) and adjust the springs to achieve the original suspension ride height. It would suck to build the truck at an elevated ride height and then find you need to lower the suspension causing the body to be too low for our awesome road system.......
Just a thought for you to consider. Its your build so you need to do it your way. Great job so far.

[dsraven]

Another thought,
When I was doing my frame cut out front I got all concerned about where to cut it off etc. Finally I realized that setting the body on some ajustable stands, like you made for the frame, until I got the body squared up and sitting level with cab mounts built etc, allowed me to work free of those frame horns. After the body was where it needed to be then I built the front frame horns from the old frame section to match the rest of the frame and the bumper height, and then added the rad support mounts.
I cant remember the cab mounting on the AD trucks but my 57 originally sat metal to metal at the front, with a shim pack as required for body alignment, and on rubber pucks at the rear. It also had rubber pucks under the rad support on each side. Basically it was pretty tight on the frame. I'm just saying this because you may need to think of how the body will flex as a unit from the rear of the cab to the front rad support as this will affect the fender to body fitment, hood to body fitment etc. Im sure you are already thinking of that since you have done an S10 swap before. Just thought I would throw it in for others following along. You dont necesarily need to use a stock mounting system but keep in mind how it all needs to work together. I used stock envoy body mounts under the cab and a set of energy suspension urethane bushings under the rad support on each side, at frame width, just for lack of room in the area. The inner fenders are kind of part and parcel of the body rigidity as well because they will move with the fenders but you gotta cut off whatever you need to for clearance. I ran the suspension through a full bottoming out scenario and I cut mine too much on purpose because I plan to use the rubber or plastic splash guard idea when done.

[Thadious]

Lol! I wonder if you haven't been giving more thought to my project than I have!!!

I wanted to get the engine and trans dropped into it's cradle for the additional weight and see what the suspension geometry looks like. That extra 1000 pounds or so on the front chassis will certainly have an impact on that! Then I'll have a look at ride level and mounting the cab. I didn't have the forethought to lock the suspension in it's original height, so I'll have to make due for now. I don't think it will be a huge issue as long as I get the major weight loads on the frame (definitely different than the explorer was) and mocked up/mounted correctly. The one thing that does come to mind is that locking it with the explorer body on will net a minor difference than with the 47-52 bodies and one would need to be more concerned with the new body as that is the direction in the end, not the beginning... just a thought.

The back end will be a little interesting as I intend to remove a ring or two off of the coils to get about 2.5" out of them. After, fab up a set of "pucks" if you will from some pipe and plate to shove the entire strut down that 2.5" or so and get the towers from poking up quite as high. In the end, I'll pick up a set of drop springs to replace them and keep the spring tension where it should be. In the front, eventually and for mockup, I'll remove 2" or so to see where they sit, then I'll throw in a set of 2" drop springs to get that bit of forward rake. Anything else other than that for ride height may need to be by tire size and I'm hoping it won't be too big of a difference from there. I'd like to be about 8-10" off the ground from the boards just under the driver's door.

As for the rad support... it's nice enough that there is a power steering cooler on the explorer that mounts to the front cross member covering the rack and pinion steering. It provides two mounting holes in about the right spot to make a bracket for the original front rad mount. The rad mounting, right now is only about 2" forward from that bracket and it looks like it could be accomplished with just a piece of angle.

I cut off the front end of a 1 ton chassis (had two and this was the worst) to get the spacing and brackets for the front bumper. The intention, once the front body is on, is to align and graft this into the front frame horns on the explorer and provide a strong mount. The 1/2 tons used 1/4"x2" bent brackets, whereas these mount directly to the frame and I'm pretty sure I can make these not only work, but look good too.

[joedoh]

be careful. i have lowered rangers with the same front suspension and the big difference in length of the upper vs the lower control arm can cause a lot of camber change when lowering with springs. with extreme drops (airbags) it was necessary to raise the upper arm mount. set the ride height as much as you can with the body.

beauty work so far!

[dsraven]

Suspension geometry was what I was thinking about as well. Sounds like you will have it figured out in the end.
Keep working and posting, it's interesting. Some great innovations as well.

[dsraven]

hey thadious, you got any updates or are you having too much fun driving it already?

[Thadious]

Lol, I wish! I've been busy getting things around here ready for the white stuff to come! This has included turning a 84" snow blower into a 60" one (PO had hit a fence post in the grass and bent the auger all to sh*t!) and rebuilding a 23hp Kohler motor to run it (still looking for a camshaft gear for it).

Also picked up a '65 Bridgeport milling machine, so busy getting that tuned up, wired, DRO, etc done for that!

Right now, she's in the shop with the motor sitting on the existing mounts and the cab and front end resting on the frame. I'll be working on the height adjustment for the body mounts in the coming days (fingers crossed) to get that firmed up. Then readjusting the engine mounts so I can slide it back an inch or so and off. Looking at swapping the stock exhaust manifolds in for a set of old school ram's horn center dumps or Tru-rams (found a blem set on Ebay for a great price but they won't ship to Canada (even though they ship everything else (including a transmission) here!)). So working on that.

Picked up a tilt column from a 65 Impala a couple weeks ago and that should slip in nicely, just have to find a longer intermediate shaft from something that will go from the Explorer rack and pinion to the Impala column.

Space is tight, but not as tight as the S10 was!

Cheers!
Ted.

[dsraven]

nice snag on the milling machine. I would like to find a good old lathe but then it would take shop space. maybe let my son have it in his shop, then I could always use it.
when you get back to the project maybe snap a few pics. better get that snowblower done first though, snow is a comin. brother in law got stuck in that hwy 93 mess last night. trucks jack knifed everywhere due to black ice. they sat on the side of the road for 2 hrs. no cell reception there either.

[joedoh]

man the stuff that could get done without EERRRRYthing else getting in the way.

keep it up man!

[Thadious]

Funny thing... I picked up milling machine in Edmonton! I have an old 13" South Bend for the lathe (I love the old iron!). Both will get a rebuild in the future, but for now, just getting them into a usable state.

And yes, they do take up their fair bit of real estate on the shop floor... good thing the shop is about 2000 ft2!

[Thadious]

Well.... damn... I didn't think that it was almost 2 years since I last posted! I guess it's time for a little "update"!

The project has been moving along and a little quicker as of late as the house renos were finally finished this last fall... leaving me poor but with all the time to start getting on the truck!

In the spring, I blasted all the frame and all sheet metal body parts with a fine crushed glass (no warpage) in a Harbour Freight truck tent with a tarp floor and everything taped off. A dozen bags of glass grit and a blaster I made almost 15 years ago and the second AD truck I've blasted with it!







Fabbed all of the body mounts in a similar style as to the S10 design and installed them on the frame and mounted in the engine.

Then started putting the sheet metal back together. I also realized I was going to have to redo the inner fenders as there was some serious rot in the front end of both of them. Was able to get replacements from my local AD "dealer"!





So, got the front end together and back in place...





And then trial fitting the parts back together on the back end...



The seat is from an F150 that I narrowed 3" to fit nicely and center on the steering column (from a 65 Impala (floor shift, key in the dash).

When I got to this phase, it was time to blow it apart again and start getting things working. So, body off and got a good chunk of the exhaust built... dual 2 1/2" 304 stainless with a crossover in the muffler (just fit best in the available space) and will be dual output that splits and exits on either side of the rear frame rails.



After this, I got the Painless harness installed for the TPI 350 and burned a chip to remove the VATS from it (will do the other emissions in the near future) and tried to get this thing to run for the first time...





Well... nope... the distributor had eaten itself and was a no go, so that was replaced and managed to get it to run. Had no cooling so that was short spurts only, but it did run. I just wanted proof that the wiring and computer worked as they should. Noting that the motor was old and tired (about 200k miles on it) and #2 cylinder had low compression, the next part... rebuild it...



And before you say it, yes, I know the alt is swung around backwards...



The reason being is that I will be building a custom bracket system to have the alt in that position and the PS pump on the opposite side with adjustments to take up the slack.

I also realized that a chev PS pump runs at about 1200 psi as that is was chev's use for the steering box. Ford rack and pinion is about 700-800 psi, so I had to replace a regulator in the pump to knock it down.

I replaced the front struts in the explorer frame with ones from an 02 Tacoma and cut the first ring off the coils which allowed me to use the top "hat" section of the explorer strut. End result, a 2.5" drop in the front end and with new camber adjustments, looks like it will work just right. Coil springs are the same thickness as the explorer ones so ride should be somewhat the same. In the rear end, I swapped in ones from a Crown Victoria, machined up an adapter plate for the underside, welded it in, ground flush and the CV springs bolted right in. Again, replaced the adjusters for camber and it lowered the back in another 2.5-3".

Then... back together again to get the running boards done...



And installed....



So, now I'm left in fabbing up new running board to box side filler panels as the box is about 2" higher than stock and then will be fabbing up the trans tunnel for the NV3500 in it as well as fabbing the brackets and system to use the old style ebrake from a 2 ton (long lever beside the trans) as I love them and definitely can make this work with the design!

Still a long ways to go, but progress is still happening and then there's keeping the funds going to pay for all the parts!

Merry Christmas to you all,
Ted.

[dsraven]

hope you had a great Christmas in the snow.
good progress. question, are that the tire diameter you settled on, no rubbing concerns when wheels are turned and a bump is encountered? huh, like there would be any bumps in Creston. lol.
love the shop space, gantry, lift, mill etc. jealous.

[Thadious]

Actually, it's been a bit weird for weather here... We've had 2 drops of about 3-4 each and both have melted off. With the exception of a bit of ice here and there, it was a brown Christmas where we live.

I've been experimenting a bit with tires and offsets....

Tires are 28" (225 width and I like the looks of them for a truck and not a low rider pavement queen. I don't expect to be offroading or anything like that, but I also want a little bit of clearance to still keep it a truck!

As for the rims, I have a set of Ford mustang rims (the shiny chrome ones) and a set of Dodge rim (the silver ones) and have been looking at how the offsets are going to work out, but without the motor and trans in it, at the moment, I don't get the IFS settled out to see how the offset and steering will be in proximity to the front fenders. The Ford offsets that I have tuck a little nicer and will be my starting point for the front, but I want less offset in the rear to get the tires to come a bit closer to the rear fenders... they still tuck about 1" too far for my liking but do have nice clearance to the box... so maybe a little less offset and a wider rear, for traction!