47-55.1 Alignment

[R&B51]

Couple more pics

[mr48chev]

The adjustability should be what is built into the kit compared to how a factory Corvette donor was set up. if they built it to work just like a Corvette does adjustment wise you shouldn't have an issue as long as you set up exactly as the instructions say to do it.

I've seen a couple of front end kits that are front end mechanic nightmares. On one the only way you can make and adjustment is to remove the control arm and take it to the bench to do the adjustment.

[dsraven]

I think, like any other borrowed supsnesion, you should maybe look at how it was originally intended to work. if the lower control arms were intended to sit level at ride height, things like that. then set it up that way, pin it there and set the body on in a mock up mode.

[dsraven]

since you have it mocked up sorta, maybe remove the front coil over and run the suspension through a full bottom to top swing. try it with the tire turned all the way so you know if the tires are gonna rub on turns over the bump they always put at parking lot entrances.

[mr48chev]

There is a whole lot of difference between using something that someone else engineered and took the time to make it work and taking a bunch of oem pieces, welding up some brackets and mounting points and bolting it together and hope it works.

[dsraven]

Hey R&B, did you make any forward progress?

[R&B51]

Yes, I’m sure hoping looking at the design and reading up on the adapters that alignment options are all built-in. I know the engineer who made them intends it to be that way and has made multiple vehicles with them. I guess he sells sets of them around the country as well.
I was going to rent a trailer and haul everything to the alignment shop tomorrow but going to be in the teens here I think so I may just spend time ordering more parts, working on what I can on the project. Ordered brake pedal assembly, Hydro boost and Wilwood master with proportioning valve yesterday. They said it takes 6 weeks to get it!
I need to roll the cab up on it’s face on the cab dolly to fabricate supports across the bottom to pick up cab mount spots to stiffen it from below. I have Wednesdays off to get some done between regular life stuff.
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[mr48chev]

I think the main thing you need to be concerned with is feedback from other who have used his adapters. Has anyone had issues with alignment using that setup? Everything I see says you did everything by the numbers and didn't decide to make changes that otherwise might affect alignment or cause other issues.

That is where guys usually run into trouble. When they think they know more than the people making the kid do. I don't see that at all here.

[dsraven]

the last pic, the adapters look well built. I notice they bolt onto the frame and your pic shows the mounting bolts go through the boxing plate as well.is there a tube or something that connects the outer to the inner frame there in the boxed area so the bolt can't simply crush the boxing plate towards the outer frame web? if not I would suggest to install something there to prevent that. just a thought, your truck so you what you think.

[MiraclePieCo]

I put a tape measure on mine. 1/8" toe-in was all. It drives straight down the road hands off so I never bothered to get it aligned.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by MiraclePieCo

I put a tape measure on mine. 1/8" toe-in was all. It drives straight down the road hands off so I never bothered to get it aligned.

As long as you scribe a line in the center of the tread to measure from and your holder holds their end of the tape in the exact same spot on the line on the other tire every time it is every bit as accurate as fancy machines will be. Up to the mid 80's the go to alignment guy here in town did every one he did that way for probably 40 years. He's the one who set my 48 up so it would track straight down the road as good as one ever will. I was able to drive hands off the wheel on a straight road east of Boise for almost a mile. I didn't have the equipment to do it myself at the time.

[R&B51]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

As long as you scribe a line in the center of the tread to measure from and your holder holds their end of the tape in the exact same spot on the line on the other tire every time it is every bit as accurate as fancy machines will be. Up to the mid 80's the go to alignment guy here in town did every one he did that way for probably 40 years. He's the one who set my 48 up so it would track straight down the road as good as one ever will. I was able to drive hands off the wheel on a straight road east of Boise for almost a mile. I didn't have the equipment to do it myself at the time.

Thanks mr48chev, I’ll definitely play with that plan, easy since nothing in the way right now.
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[R&B51]

dsraven, you’re right on. The stock Corvette frame chunks on each corner the frame came with were barely 1/8” thick, 3x6 hydro formed and had pipe welded through that the big bolt went through to cradle.
These two long rails and the X frame and cross brace are 3/16. Rails are 2 x 4 and cross frame is 2 in. Square.
I sort of struggled with the thought of welding in some internal tubes for the bolts to go through to avoid crush. Talked with the man who sold me the adapters and he assured me that with the amount of torque I was putting on these bolts there would be no deflection and he was right. He said the 3/16 was overkill and that 1/8 inch wall would have been plenty, I chickened out and went overkill I guess. They crunch down solid. I was doing gymnastics in my head about the heat I would put in those sections with the welds and changing the structure of the steel and decided to just bolt right through without the inner steel tube.
With the mandrel bends in the long rails in two directions and the X frame this thing feels rocksolid. Calculating final weight of the truck six or 800 pounds lighter than the Corvette so I think it will be plenty stiff and not put too much stress on all those stainless bolts coming through though rails.
All that said, your logic is sound and the people in Detroit were doing that on the big thin-walled stock frame tube.
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[dsraven]

just thought I would mention it. also, the stainless hardware, make sure you torque it to the value for that grade of stainless bolt and no more because stainless has a tendency to stress crack and can shear off if overtorqued. not the same torque as a grade 5 bolt. they look cool and all but personally I use plated grade 8 bolts and hardened washers whenever I do frame work. I overkill it I guess but never had any comebacks either. I personally would weld in the tubes but thats me doing the overkill thing. I am a heavy duty mechanic so I guess I think too much into it sometimes because time spent for repairs is time not charged out by the machine per hour and also time not paid to the operator.
anyway, you're done and happy and it's your truck s you gotta do it your way and be happy.
looks nice, by the way.

[R&B51]

Yes, words of wisdom from experience that’s why I like this site. I used these because they came with the kit and were free, not exactly a great reason to make a decision but I did Use anti-seize and torque them correctly. Your information is valuable for my future projects.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by dsraven

just thought I would mention it. also, the stainless hardware, make sure you torque it to the value for that grade of stainless bolt and no more because stainless has a tendency to stress crack and can shear off if overtorqued. not the same torque as a grade 5 bolt. they look cool and all but personally I use plated grade 8 bolts and hardened washers whenever I do frame work. I overkill it I guess but never had any comebacks either. I personally would weld in the tubes but thats me doing the overkill thing. I am a heavy duty mechanic so I guess I think too much into it sometimes because time spent for repairs is time not charged out by the machine per hour and also time not paid to the operator.
anyway, you're done and happy and it's your truck s you gotta do it your way and be happy.
looks nice, by the way.

That "stainless bolt" strength issue has been around for a long time and I have had guys who should know better argue that stainless bolts were stronger than grade 8 bolts when they barely match a grade 8 strength wise outside of some serious aircraft stainless bolts that are a special alloy.

Stainless are primarily used where corrosion is a real issue as on boats. Then as a decorative item on cars and trucks as with the 400 piece stainless fastener kits that we like to have shiny bolts on non safety related spots on our trucks.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by youngrodder

Your post always amaze me. You have such a way with words. "Those cute home made cobbled together alignment rigs like E15475 while cute,".

That's an unnecessary dig at someone offering to help. Have you ever looked at e15475's build? It is top notch (nothing says cobbled to me). Let's see some recent/current pics of your truck. Your so quick to always criticize and turn your nose up to others ideas. I'm sure you have quite a well executed well planned out truck......I'll wait.

Thanks
Marc

The thing is when you have done this stuff every day you KNOW what's right and wrong. There is NO WAY you can align a car or truck without all the weight it will have, you can't find out if it's "going to be ok" you can't find out ANYTHING within reason. If you are highly skilled it could do something for you, but if you are highly skilled you can throw a measurement with a frigging measuring tape over that chassis and learn whether you have a chance or not of aligning it when done. But honestly, you have to have all the weight in it to know.

If were you working with a solid axle stock truck, hell yeah you could do it now and have a very good idea, only a few things would change a little. But with fully independent front and rear, it will tell you NOTHING right now. The geometry of these suspensions is so complex it's crazy. Going down a little will change about every angle, caster, camber, toe EVERYTHING!

No, there is nothing to talk about after what Mr48Chev said. R&B51 needs to go with what he said and move on with life.

I did this for a number of years, not just "regular" alignments working at a tire shop but collision alignments, the measuring tape or tram DURING the build is what you need to use to make sure you will have that alignment in the end. An alignment without the wheels you are going to use, without ALL the weight on the chassis is a waste of time.

Brian

[R&B51]

Good thread, appreciate all the responses- every one useful to me-I’m convinced, your years of experience is gold.
Sort of related-
Guys at ride Tech had one concern with rigid chassis and light weight they advised might end up swapping out for softer coils.
So, plan:
Best to do some general alignment using tape now, then if needed swap coils, get permanent wheels and tires before final alignment.
I’d asked this question before, maybe best in new thread to get max responses if you guys don’t know?::

Anybody know weight estimate for cab, body panels, bed/wood, miscellaneous stuff from driveline and frame “up”?
I even tried to find weight of a factory roller and driveline (if ever sold that way to folks using a totally custom cab and body vs complete truck) but no luck.
I think I know roughly what this Corvette engine, tranny, homemade frame, stock suspension, aftermarket tank and fluids weigh.

[mr48chev]

A stock 3100 has around a 3250 lb shipping weight. I can't get into the GM Heritage center Vehicle information it pfds today. I could yesterday but it looks like they changed some stuff last night. the pfd shows the weight bias too.