So I drove through some water...

[special-K]

I ran a '55 1st Design for a while, after wrecking my '69 Power Wagon and before buying a '71 K/20. It was an all original barn fresh truck, so still 6v. I ran that everywhere and anywhere. It didn't crank so fast so I kept a 12v battery on the passenger floor. Battery cables were hooked up to the under floor 6v battery and I'd hook them to the 12v to start, then unhook. Worked like a charm. Didn't use the starter long enough to burn it up. That think started but quick, too!

[Accelo]

In my prior life I rebuild many a transmission that "I just drove through some water".
Automatics don't take it for long. The friction material comes loose from the steel backing. Looks like it was never attached when you take them apart. Keep the water out and the vents connected and you will be ok.

['68OrangeSunshine]

Originally Posted by special-K

I guess I missed the humor in your first post. I might have put the toe of my shoe in my own mouth a bit. I would have edited but I left town till late last night, so this is my kinda sorta rebuttal. I tend to be sarcastic myself and use dry humor that can event go over the tallest head. I agree with your comments (maybe you actually don't ). I read it and applied it to myself when it was an in general post. Now go jump of a rock!!

I was at my sister's last weekend and two weekend's ago. They live up a mountain where they use 4wd everyday to get up their road with 9%+ grade. When it snows or bad mud they strap on chains. In winter they leave a rusty old 'Yota with chains and leave their driver at the bottom, often. And sometimes they can't get up with chains and they have to hike it up to the house, groceries and all. But I drove a 2wd Sonoma down and scratched my way up. The first time, empty, it took backing down for a second shot at the steepest part. It's a 4cyl/5spd and I left it in second. Not enough guts for that and shifting to first it didn't slip right in, which meant I stopped dead. It even slid back some with the brakes on. Kinda scary. But I backed to the bottom and hit it harder in first, still requiring some "technique" of giving it power, wheels slip so let of, power again, let off, and it made it on up. I made a few trips up carrying about 1/2t of gravel and no problemo.

Speak for yourself. Well, I guess you did. You said "people" and you are a person, right? Maybe you meant "most" or "many"
You are incorrect with your next statement. As one who was a 4wd enthusiast before the "herd" you spoke of caught on, I can tell you it's quite the contrary. In the case of widespread 4wd ownership, it all began with market demand and it was the automakers who responded to that. If anyone is to blame it would be the advent of 4wd magazines which, again, were spurred by the growing public interest. The Baja 1000 and coverage of Jeep clubs running the Rubicon and other backcountry trails helped spread the "disease". I can remember when you'd hardly see a 4wd but in the northern tier states. And the only well-optioned, meaning comfort & convenience, 4wds were seen on the west coast and southwest where camping in the wide open spaces was already popular. The 4wds I knew of on the east coast were all utility and far fewer. I remember in the late-70s in Pagosa Springs, CO how the old-timers would say "We didn't need 4wd. We just strapped on the chains". And S/W Colorado gets more than it share of big snows. Yep, people managed w/o 4wd just fine back in the day. But it didn't take long for folks to realize they could do even better with it.
I thought we were talking about 67-72 era 4wds in this thread, since that's the forum we are in here. Audi was at the forefront of "AWD" cars not "4WD" trucks. Two completely different animals. If their line of offerings is predominantly AWD it is due to them pioneering the segment. The idea of AWD is for better traction on the road in all conditions, including dry performance driving. With 2wd the drive wheels will steer the vehicle when breaking loose and AWD pulls straight, more peddle through the bends, especially when the unpredictable loose material or wet spots show up on a curve. I thing originally they had skiers in mind, but the general public ate it up, so they responded to the market. Lots of America gets snow in the winter. Although you can count the snow days on your hand in many areas, "people" feels it's better to have when you don't need it than to not have it when you do. In the end, fuel economy is pretty much the same and the drivetrains hold up through the life of the typical Audi driver who are new car buyers.

As far as the modern $100k trucks we see, I agree, many don't even use them as trucks or go off road. And the boys with thousands of dollars in wheels and tires alone are what many would call mall cruisers and that tires hanging out the side is a silly fad as Jumpsofrock may have been referring to. In the '70s when 4wds took off and magazines showed 4wds with chrome shocks & roll bars, KC Daylighters illegal to use on the road, and custom graphic paint jobs, I saw the same thing happening. I didn't follow. My truck lacked chrome and all it was lacking was a winch that I couldn't afford

Asa far as me, this has been my theme song since my teens. Actually sooner. I just hadn't fully realized it yet:
The Byrds- I Wasn't Born To Follow - YouTube

Special K- Kudos for using a Byrds/Easy Rider clip to make your point. My fave rave band too.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by '68OrangeSunshine

Special K- Kudos for using a Byrds/Easy Rider clip to make your point. My fave rave band too.

The core of many great groups & music, ey? Happy to know we share the appreciation. I do relate to that song. I really was not born to follow. I do put effort into blending in. No man is an island and all that jazz

[mrein3]

My thoughts on 4wd...

FWIW, I have yet to figure out why somebody would buy a pickup that isn't 4wd.

I've owned a vehicle with 4wd capabilities since the mid 90s when I could first afford one. I have yet to go "off roading" though there have been hunting trips on 2 tracks in the mountains of Wyoming and logging roads in northern Minnesota where folks might consider that off roading. Pro tip: Use 2wd until you can't. If you get stuck already in 4wd, you may have to work to get out.

I use my truck to plow my driveway in the winter. I shift the transfer case into 4HI in November, and back to 2 in March or April. It is looking like April this year. Pro tip: Put chains on your front tires. You get extra traction AND you can steer.

I have 3 daily drivers. One for me, one for my wife, and one for my college kid. All have 4wd capabilities.

My driveway is uphill and gravel. I can't plow it clean. Snow builds up over the winter. From about the end of January until nowish you can't get out of my yard with 2wd. Many have tried. Let's just call it 1.5 months you need AWD or 4wd to get out of my driveway. That is 12.5% of the year.

That is all I'm going to say about that.

Originally Posted by jumpsoffrock

snip
I'll have none of it. I think the 4x4 craze is a fad for people who have more sense than money, and they over prepare for something that will require 4x4 less than 1% of the time they use the vehicle.
And most people who have 4x4 aren't even the "type" of people who do that kinda offroad stuff.....and now they're searching harder and going farther to pay more money for some 4x4 truck, all for nothing. What a waste; and it makes you look like a poser.



snip

[Stocker]

^^^ I can relate. My first and only pickup is my K20 that I bought in 1977. 2WD was never even considered. My driveway is not like yours, but with snow the short steep hill to my house will stop pretty much any chained 2WD. I once barely made it up with our old Grand Cherokee -- can't recall what the tires were but I'm guessing not the best.

[Ol Blue K20]

Originally Posted by mrein3

my thoughts on 4wd...

Fwiw, i have yet to figure out why somebody would buy a pickup that isn't 4wd.

I've owned a vehicle with 4wd capabilities since the mid 90s when i could first afford one. I have yet to go "off roading" though there have been hunting trips on 2 tracks in the mountains of wyoming and logging roads in northern minnesota where folks might consider that off roading. Pro tip: Use 2wd until you can't. If you get stuck already in 4wd, you may have to work to get out.

I use my truck to plow my driveway in the winter. I shift the transfer case into 4hi in november, and back to 2 in march or april. It is looking like april this year. Pro tip: Put chains on your front tires. You get extra traction and you can steer.

I have 3 daily drivers. One for me, one for my wife, and one for my college kid. All have 4wd capabilities.

My driveway is uphill and gravel. I can't plow it clean. Snow builds up over the winter. From about the end of january until nowish you can't get out of my yard with 2wd. Many have tried. Let's just call it 1.5 months you need awd or 4wd to get out of my driveway. That is 12.5% of the year.

That is all i'm going to say about that.

x3

[special-K]

Makes you wonder why, before the major automakers offered a 4wd, why companies like NAPCO, Marmon-Herrington, and Howe offered 4wd conversions and why any buyer would go through the extra wait and expense to have 4wd. Then why GM started offering NAPCO conversions through the dealerships, then began offering them in their line-up... back when only so many people saw the value. But the word on that spread until the market caught on, to the point that we have today more 4wd trucks sold than 2wd. It's as if they are a good idea.

As far as lifting trucks and putting taller tires on goes. Oh I don't know, consider farm tractors. I wonder why the rear drive tires are so much taller than the front. Traction on loose footing is more about engine speed and gearing and much less about HP. When I put taller tires on my first 4wd my truck did what the others couldn't do. A huge improvement. You can't put taller tires that make a difference on without creating more body clearance, by enlarging the openings and/or lifting the truck. Going from 30-31" tires to 35-37" tires yields 2-3 addition inches of differential clearance. And the taller the tire the bigger & deeper the lugs with great separation of lugs for better clearing of the mud picked up. Yes, there is a reason other than looking tougher. The reason is enhanced performance for what the truck is designed to do. I was the first guy around who ran tires over 32" and the few who also had 4wds back then were amazed by what my truck could do. I still remember what a noticeable change that made

[Accelo]

All have valid points for people that need and actually use the 4-wheel drive.
The housewife in Tucson likely has 4 wheel rig and never in the life of the truck actually needs it. For her it would be a waste of $ used to purchase the rig and the extra fuel it uses because of the extra weight. My guess it way more fall into this category than the actual "needs it" category. And like you said their is a lot of them. My point is, more what them than need them.

As of April 2020, 50.8% of new vehicles sold in the 2020 model year have been equipped with four wheel drive. If trends hold, four wheel drive will represent more than 50% of the market for the first time ever.

The average transaction price of a full-size pickup truck was $60,289, up just under 9% from 2021. Of course the addition of 4 wheel drive has driven the average price up.

[special-K]

What you say is true, except 4wds really don't use much if any more fuel than 2wd these days. I see it as a case of better to have and never need than not have the one time it's needed. If fuel consumption was a true concern, than that statement would be partially negated. There are so many added features I could say are not needed that are added to vehicles, driving their price up, I feel that exceeds the increase in added front drive system, especially when that is most common (keeping the build cost lower)

[Accelo]

Some very good points made by all. Most all of my extended family has four wheel drive trucks. Since I have a SUV with four wheel drive I saw no reason for it on my truck. A personal decision. It has it's advantages, since almost all the trucks from the early 2000's are extended cabs and four wheel drives it makes my Standard Cab Short Box rare. I get offers all the time for more thank I paid for it over 20 years ago. Good conversation. Thanks to all that contributed.

[special-K]

I feel that most people would be just fine without it. In my area I was ahead of the curve and now that the idea of the benefits of 4wd have been absorbed by the masses my very nature pushes me away from what "they" do. 4WDs are in my blood, so I'll always have at least one. I just can't live without one . And I do plan to live out my years in the mountains in a rustic lifestyle, more so than I do now. But I don't do new construction on muddy jobsites anymore and feel I'd like to be the guy with a 2wd work truck now. I've had quite a few 2wd 67-72s and a few squarebodies, too. Both for work and play. When counties started cracking down on getting mud on the streets for sediment control concerns, I set up a '78 C/30 Dually for work and stayed on the street. Plus I got more into home improvement. Then I built a '70 C/30 DRW. I worked out of a '71 C/20 for a while, too. I'd love to have another 71/72 C/20 set-up for work to show the boys the other side of the coin they never looked at.

I'm driving a 2wd Sonoma presently and did some work for my sister who lives up a steep grade on a mountain. They both use 4wd daily to get up and didn't think I'd be able to get up to their place. I managed just fine. It just takes some driving skill. I've always used 2wd in my 4wds and they've lived there since '96. Been up that hill kore times than I can count. but many people can't get up that hill to the rental cabins. City folk, ya know