1976 Square "Simple Green"

[ray1970]

Ray here.
Another blunder I made when the motor would not fire was move the white wire(key on)
to the battery this would be fine BUT there are some changes that you need to power down for.....Hot wire= NO power down.....Yes I challenge myself the first night..

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
Another blunder I made when the motor would not fire was move the white wire(key on)
to the battery this would be fine BUT there are some changes that you need to power down for.....Hot wire= NO power down.....Yes I challenge myself the first night..

Ray.

So how did you end up wiring the 12 volt hot wire not the ignition wire?

[RodsGreen10]

And I don't see what running it direct to the batter version running it to this in the pic below. They are both connected to battery and start. Either way the start will draw from either the battery or this location. Am I missing something cause it has been a ruff week and my mind is frazzled.

[ray1970]

Ray here.
The red wire goes to battery. 12v all the time....My msd box is the same way.
As long as you have a steady 12+volts it should be good..
The white wire goes to the key switch so you can turn something off?
To get something's to work that part needs to be shut down.

This was something I battled with when I became frustrated and stop thinking and started drinking.......Long story...

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
The red wire goes to battery. 12v all the time....My msd box is the same way.
As long as you have a steady 12+volts it should be good..
The white wire goes to the key switch so you can turn something off?
To get something's to work that part needs to be shut down.

This was something I battled with when I became frustrated and stop thinking and started drinking.......Long story...

That is just it. That box in the pic has 12 volts all the time. That is why I hooked it to that. It gets power from battery 24/7. What would be the difference hooking the red wire from the harness to battery vs that block? They both have 12v power all the time. That block is connect to battery.

[ray1970]

Ray here.
I don't see were it would be any different 12v is 12v as a general rule
Not being a GM kind of guy I don't have one of those blocks but I get the idea..

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Yep 12volts is 12 volts

[Crushkrew]

So....I have been doing some mental masterbation....after a bunch of JD single barrels...and modern FI systems...like my ram truck...have lesser gauge starter cables than what we are running....this cold start problem that you are having has to stem from another source...hoping that Fitech can direct us in the right direction....even at 10.5 volts...injectors and coil should be firing enough to start...shiz we have all started carbed motors on less....ie..that time when battery was close to dead and she started.......pls let us know what Fitech comes back with...I know you will as evident by this comprehensive thread....

[RodsGreen10]

Happy New Year everyone.

So I have been thinking and looking and reading. If the vehicle temp is over 100 the truck turns over no problem. Anything below that and I am having the cold start carb issue is what I will call it lol. Even with a jumper on the system. So I still think it has to do with a setting. Not the location I have the 12v wire hooked up on the FiTech. I know that when I had a carb it would take 3-4 pumps so it would turn over. So idk if I still am not getting enough fuel on startup and after start fuel isn't enough. It will crank and run for a few sec then die. Then after that it really is a pain in the ass to start. I will get it figured out I didn't spend this much damn money and time for this thing not to fire off on the first crank.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

One tech asked me to look at the controller to if it showed any RPMs while cranking it over to see if there was a single being sent to the ecu when I was having one of my starting problem's(one of many)

I know you didn't do this but I just plug in my temp sender and let it hang.(night one)
the only way it would start was on spray...you know poring fuel in .STUPED

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.

One tech asked me to look at the controller to if it showed any RPMs while cranking it over to see if there was a single being sent to the ecu when I was having one of my starting problem's(one of many)

I know you didn't do this but I just plug in my temp sender and let it hang.(night one)
the only way it would start was on spray...you know poring fuel in .STUPED

Ray.

Got RPM signal. No issue with that.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

Current starting problem (for me)
I was sent the wrong body the first time NONE power adder once I got my mind working
and things put together right it started at below freezing with out issue.

Was sent the right body and controller this set up has never started as well the first.
I tried resetting the learning mode and a few other things.
I have yet to try putting the none adder back on.
or just swap the chip in the controllers..........Maybe today...
Before I send it back..Im holding it hostage till something is done with at lest one controller

Ray.

[swampbog]

Rodsgreen10
I don't think hooking it up to the battery is going to make a difference either.
How's the fuel pressure at the cold start and after it dies?
I know you already replaced the fuel pump once but it still could always be a slight chance there is an issue again.
As your cranking do you see gas going down the throttle body?
I imagined you verified the ignition timing is correct and didn't move.
Does it run smooth after it finally starts and stays running?
What happens when you first start it and hold the throttle open before it dies? Does it stay running or still dies?
As you can tell I'm think it's somehow fuel related. I'm wondering since it starts fine when it's at 100 degrees could it be a fuel drain back issue, where when its cold it means it sat for a while and fuel has drained back and when it starts fine when it's warm the fuel hasn't had a chance to drain back all the way yet.
It starts and then dies and then has a hard timing starting again, like it's has air in the fuel lines??

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Rodsgreen10
I don't think hooking it up to the battery is going to make a difference either.
How's the fuel pressure at the cold start and after it dies?
I know you already replaced the fuel pump once but it still could always be a slight chance there is an issue again.
As your cranking do you see gas going down the throttle body?
I imagined you verified the ignition timing is correct and didn't move.
Does it run smooth after it finally starts and stays running?
What happens when you first start it and hold the throttle open before it dies? Does it stay running or still dies?
As you can tell I'm think it's somehow fuel related. I'm wondering since it starts fine when it's at 100 degrees could it be a fuel drain back issue, where when its cold it means it sat for a while and fuel has drained back and when it starts fine when it's warm the fuel hasn't had a chance to drain back all the way yet.
It starts and then dies and then has a hard timing starting again, like it's has air in the fuel lines??

Thanks guys it's funny the people helping don't even have a c10 truck lol.
Honestly not looked at fuel pressure on start up. FiTech got my mind on this battery BS. Which I agree it won't change if I move it to the battery.
And I agree I think it is fuel related also. But I have not had time to mess with it. Been packing and stuff trying to go out of town for funeral. I did mess with it yesterday but no dice. Went back over every connection checked HEI upgrade stuff I did check plug wires I made. All damn good if I say so myself lol. Only thing I didn't check is fuel stuff. I am going to add a few more grounds to the truck and make sure I am not having a ground issue for some reason. Cause like I posted when I crank it and it starts and runs for a few sec and now this morning it won't Run for a few sec. The damn handheld goes white. I have to unplug the handheld plug it back in. And FiTech keeps telling me check afr on crank well it's hard to check it when screen goes white out on you. Lol. It's always some ****. Keep it coming guys **** maybe between us and FiTech we can get it fixed. As I have seen online that I am not the only one with cold start issues.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Thanks guys it's funny the people helping don't even have a c10 truck lol.

Well, I'm helping because I'm using you as a guinea pig so I hopefully don't have the same issues.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Well, I'm helping because I'm using you as a guinea pig so I hopefully don't have the same issues.

Lmao!!

[ray1970]

Ray here.
Give me a little time I will come up with something else I balled up on..
Well there was the Ing.thing but that's to long a story.....

Ray.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
Give me a little time I will come up with something else I balled up on..
Well there was the Ing.thing but that's to long a story.....

Ray.

That's the thing Ray I have verified all my connection power ignition you name it all are working as intended. So the last real phone conversation I had with FiTech yesterday was if screen is going white when I try and crank it "now this only happens when cold warm no issue" they are saying power or ground issue. But let's say I crank it and it does not start screen does not white out but if I crank it and it runs for a few secs and it dies then screen goes white. So I am going to add a couple more grounds. I know the damn thing is grounded correctly if not my HEI EFI friendly module would not be working and producing a RPM signal.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

That's the thing Ray I have verified all my connection power ignition you name it all are working as intended. So the last real phone conversation I had with FiTech yesterday was if screen is going white when I try and crank it "now this only happens when cold warm no issue" they are saying power or ground issue. But let's say I crank it and it does not start screen does not white out but if I crank it and it runs for a few secs and it dies then screen goes white. So I am going to add a couple more grounds. I know the damn thing is grounded correctly if not my HEI EFI friendly module would not be working and producing a RPM signal.

Loose ground? Shakes and gets a bad connection when the engine is running?
For ****s and giggles, run a dedicated ground and hot to the battery. Nothing fancy just a few wires going straight over to the battery.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Loose ground? Shakes and gets a bad connection when the engine is running?
For ****s and giggles, run a dedicated ground and hot to the battery. Nothing fancy just a few wires going straight over to the battery.

Could be. The truck does like to rock on start up and sitting gotta love a big cam. Lol. And swamp that is what I am planning on doing we are on the same page this morning haha.

[swampbog]

And one the battery cables.
I took the wimpy battery cables off my Jeep as I was putting in new power cables for my winch. I used the old winch power cables and made them in to battery cables (1/0 gage).
I have both a hot and a ground cable going to my starter and my alternator.
My Jeep never had the starter motor spin so fast before, it's a PowerMaster XS torque not some wimpy auto zone special. During the summer time I can pump my pedal a couple of times and just touch the key and the motor spins up and starts.
I really believe in a dedicated grounds and running the biggest wire I can to the starter and alternator.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

And one the battery cables.
I took the wimpy battery cables off my Jeep as I was putting in new power cables for my winch. I used the old winch power cables and made them in to battery cables (1/0 gage).
I have both a hot and a ground cable going to my starter and my alternator.
My Jeep never had the starter motor spin so fast before, it's a PowerMaster XS torque not some wimpy auto zone special. During the summer time I can pump my pedal a couple of times and just touch the key and the motor spins up and starts.
I really believe in a dedicated grounds and running the biggest wire I can to the starter and alternator.

Well we are on the same page with that ruffly the same that I have. 4 gauge is what I am using and powermaster stater also. But that you mention it I don't believe I have a ground at the alternator hmmm. I had one with my old motor but this new setup I don't believe I have it ground why hell if I know. I don't even see the original ground for it.

[diceman50]

Originally Posted by swampbog

I really believe in a dedicated grounds and running the biggest wire I can to the starter and alternator.

I'm with you swampbog. Sometimes I ground my grounds!

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by diceman50

I'm with you swampbog. Sometimes I ground my grounds!

I have a Jeep with a fiberglass body so I know all about grounds. Plus the older CJs were known to have ground issues. If you wanted brighter headlamps the easiest thing to do was run a dedicated ground from each light and taa-daa you look like your running your high beams and now your high beams are actually blinding people.
On my Jeep everything has a dedicated ground or it's clustered to a dedicated ground.
I have ground lugs everywhere and it's ridiculous.

[diceman50]

I have a friend who installed one on a Bronco. Engine would start and then die. Changed the battery and it ran great for a while. Then it wouldn't start at all. It burned up a couple of the pins in the power connector. (the yellow one) He sent it back to FiTech and I have not heard the outcome.

I am getting ready to put one on a friends 69 Camaro. We have already decided if we have any of these issues we will just use the throttle body and the injectors and run it with a GM computer like we are doing with the Retrotec throttle bodies on my Apache. I hope it doesn't come to that.