'50 chevy 3100

[Matt_50]

Hello everyone, I want to post my build here as I go and I hope you guys can pitch in good tips and any helpful info. Two weeks ago I picked a 1950 Chevy 3100 5 window pickup. The 47-54 trucks are my all time favorites! I sold my Ford Bronco to get this and still have some left over to start with.

Now, I am on a budget...thats doesn't mean I want to do any half jobs or be unsafe or cut corners, I just may not be able to use the greatest and best on the market. This is not a restoration to stock and it is not to be a hotrod. I am not the hotrod type, never was, and it will be a long time until I can do a full restore. This all said, I plan to take as much from my current pickup as I can. I drive an 84 c10 2 wheel drive pickup.. the wife used the car. This truck was never meant to be a project but one thing led to another and it got a new 350 and a rebuilt auto 350..that led to a paint job and over time it needed brakes, suspension...you know how it goes.

So I have a good low mileage 350/350 I want to drop in the '50. I found where people have used the IFS and put in 3100's. It also has a 10 bolt rear end 8.5 I hope I can use also. I rewired quite a bit of the 84, good soldering and everything done correctly and safely,and I think I can just use that wiring. I hope I can fab the pedals to work and also use MC and brake booster maybe.

I know the tires on the front will stick out a bit...maybe I can use offset wheels. If I really think it looks bad I can save up for a nice mustang 2 set up but that will be a while.

I will gladly listen to any advise or opinions anyone has about doing and hope you all can be helpful. This truck is the oldest I have worked on. Stuff like the steering and gearbox belong one unit or it having a torque tube or having 6v wiring is stuff I have had to research and learn.

So, like I said I have heard of this IFS swap, seems to go back and forth with people. I'm ok with the tires stick out for a while, I'll save up while I drive if I hate it. I would like to actually hear from anyone who has done it though. I'd like to avoid hitting fenders for example. That's the front. Will my rear axle stick out too and will it bounce and hit fenders?

First things first, body prep. It's actually pretty solid. Worse than my 84 was but way better than my bronco was. Bronco required a lot of patching and rust removal so compared to that this is awesome. I've started the tear down. I have before and now pics that I hope work. I didn't get photobucket but my Google photos should load right? Let me know if you can't see them.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xW1ErvOghzjqOTL03

https://photos.app.goo.gl/BFtksV7FJvczhnwh2

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YjzVvZWJkdl1hGn62

[mongocanfly]

Welcome...Good looking start..on the ifs question , I'm more of a do it once and do it right person...i wouldnt want to be doing a front swap job twice..I never cared for the way a full size truck stuff looks under an AD..and I've got one in my shed done that way..its destined for a full c4 vette front swap... and on a budget you might want to give a lot of thought to doing the s10 frame swap...nice newer frame, ifs, driveline,,, its all there ...

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by mongocanfly

Welcome...Good looking start..on the ifs question , I'm more of a do it once and do it right person...i wouldnt want to be doing a front swap job twice..I never cared for the way a full size truck stuff looks under an AD..and I've got one in my shed done that way..its destined for a full c4 vette front swap... and on a budget you might want to give a lot of thought to doing the s10 frame swap...nice newer frame, ifs, driveline,,, its all there ...

^^^^^^
You can do whatever you want to your truck, but if it was me I would find a little s-10 with a blown motor and strip it down. This year trucks love the new chassis, disc brakes, modern (freeway gears) rear ends.
Not to mention the frames on this year truck narrow down quite a bit which usually shoves the motor up to clear the frame rails. I did a couple years ago, and back then the s-10's were newer. I put one of these s-10's under a 41 Chevy coupe. Easy.
Food for thought.

[gigamanx]

You have a 5 window what a cool start. The floor looks like it needs a lot of love. I'm a year into my S10 swap of a Chevy 3100 so I can at least tell you what "budget minded" can get you in that direction. I started with a full Chevy 3100 and purchased a used 1988 Chevy S10. Just a month ago, I got myself a gently loved Chevy 350 from a C1500. I've been trying to use as many parts as I can, but to do it right there is definitely money involved. I agonized over other builds and IFS vs S10 chassis. Both seem to have their merits. If I were to go back a year ago with what I know now, I probably would have done an IFS. It sounds like a lot of money up front, but I've already spent that much just getting this S10 chassis to work with a 350 SBC. I still have a ton of fabrication to do just to make the body fit. I then have to worry about all the interior stuff. I was able to use the master cylinder and pedals. That's about it haha.

[Matt_50]

I keep seeing s10 as a popular swap....isnt it what like an inch difference in size?

[mongocanfly]

Skymangs has a good howto section here about all this..
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=632686

Joedoh has also done quite a few of these swaps...
Time to do some reading..

[joedoh]

s10 swaps make good sense when you find a nice running donor, leave it largely complete, and put it together with your cab and bed. the further you get away from that, the less time and money you save because mounting the body is literally the easiest part. S10 swaps make sense too when it comes to replacement parts, everything you could break on the road is available at every auto parts store in the known universe. You can also buy complete bolt on airbag setups and inexpensive drop spindles for an S10 chassis.

I am not sure how gigamanx spent $1000 (cost of an IFS) on mounting a V8? I made my own mounts on the 41 S10 I am doing now and the spreadsheet says new motor mounts and steel and tube and bolts were $41. Its important to note though, that if you are installing a V8 in your project you will need to make/buy mounts with either an IFS or an S10, neither one comes with that provision. same with steering shafts, either way you will need u joints and shafts.

and thats really the point. figure out what your goals are up front and dont move the goal posts. If you want a reliable truck with a proven chassis, an S10 based truck will work very well because you can buy a nice running donor and sell the parts you wont use to offset the costs. an IFS is only that, IFS. it doesnt mount a motor, it doesnt wire the truck, it doesnt upgrade the rear axle, the brake lines, the fuel lines, the leaf springs, the shock mounts etc. an IFS does make putting the body on a lot easier though.

either way you will still want to do rust repair on that floor, dont just go chopping willy nilly, there are braces under the rusty metal that are probably still in good shape. the floor doesnt do much supporting of the cab, it is the braces that holds things up. my 49 was rusted worse than that and I was able to use a grinder and screwdriver to remove all the perforated metal but leave the braces intact. then I drilled holes that lined up with the braces in the new panels and "spot welded" them back together.

[Matt_50]

You guys really push for the s10 swap... I have read up on it a lot and I admit..very tempting. After I'm done with body prep I will read up on it some more before I start on the big stuff.

With that it mind. Let's say I stay on the first idea. I measured the WMS of both the stock axle and my c10 axle.

Stock 62 inches

C10 64 inches

This should be close enough not to cause rubbing issues right? Reposition the saddles...use stock '50 springs..

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

You guys really push for the s10 swap... I have read up on it a lot and I admit..very tempting.

no, at least that is not what I was intending. what I was trying to say is that there is no free lunch. s10/IFS, both are a lot of damn work but in different ways. I was trying to impress on you that mounting the body is literally one of the easiest parts with either. building cab and running board mounts and modifying the core support is very minor compared to installing a modern driveline and upgrading the pedals, wiring, and other systems. with an IFS you save the sheetmetal mounting but everything else is still 1:1, you still need pedals and a hydraulic system, steering column and wiring harness, engine and trans mounting, rear axle and shocks, lowering components and a gas tank, etc etc etc. if you are able to look at it as the sum of work instead of one component you will see what a small part of it is changing the frame to an s10, there is still everything else to do.

I like taking a known running truck like an s10 with EFI and power brakes and modern driveline and making the old steel fit it. it takes a while and there are challenges, but the running truck is a known quantity, just moving things around to fit.but that is ME, your hill of beans is still a hill of beans and is different in every way, skill, time, space. the doldrums in the middle, where you regard the project honestly as what you have left to do and are overwhelmed by it, thats where all projects are the same.

plenty of argument for both. lots of trucks in either camp on here in the project section, lots of starts with both and very few finishes comparatively. learn from that, steel your nerve and make yourself sure yours will be one that is done.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by joedoh

no, at least that is not what I was intending. what I was trying to say is that there is no free lunch. s10/IFS, both are a lot of damn work but in different ways. I was trying to impress on you that mounting the body is literally one of the easiest parts with either. building cab and running board mounts and modifying the core support is very minor compared to installing a modern driveline and upgrading the pedals, wiring, and other systems. with an IFS you save the sheetmetal mounting but everything else is still 1:1, you still need pedals and a hydraulic system, steering column and wiring harness, engine and trans mounting, rear axle and shocks, lowering components and a gas tank, etc etc etc. if you are able to look at it as the sum of work instead of one component you will see what a small part of it is changing the frame to an s10, there is still everything else to do.

I like taking a known running truck like an s10 with EFI and power brakes and modern driveline and making the old steel fit it. it takes a while and there are challenges, but the running truck is a known quantity, just moving things around to fit.but that is ME, your hill of beans is still a hill of beans and is different in every way, skill, time, space. the doldrums in the middle, where you regard the project honestly as what you have left to do and are overwhelmed by it, thats where all projects are the same.

plenty of argument for both. lots of trucks in either camp on here in the project section, lots of starts with both and very few finishes comparatively. learn from that, steel your nerve and make yourself sure yours will be one that is done.

^^^^
I also was not trying to sound like I am "pushing you towards an s-10". Not at all. Just trying to point out that you get a lot of newer style parts by simply making some mounts to attach your body to frame. Still a lot of work. Lotta bang for the buck so to speak.
Now there's some that then say you "just have a re-bodied S-10". Up to you. Figured you asked the question and started out with "on a budget".
That's why I (and probably others) pointed you this way.

[Matt_50]

I've definitely been trying to get all the steps figured out ahead of time. Of course I'm not making the mistake of buying everything at once either, I have steps planned. I want to do this right and actually get it done. I have had so many projects before both automotive and not and I have learned not to go to nuts or think this'll be easy or this won't cost much... as you can imagine not all projects got finished. I feel I have learned from each one. My last couple of trucks were done slowly and done right. This truck will require a few new modifications...but I have been doing overtime on homework lol

I have the major stuff down. It's the little things that'll add up that always get you. It's these I'm trying prepare for the best I can. At this point I'm ready to get started. I didn't even want to start on the body until I had a plan.

So wish me luck that Murphy and his law don't come and bite in the butt. I'll have a few questions and on the little things I hope you guys can help out on.

[joedoh]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

Of course I'm not making the mistake of buying everything at once either, I have steps planned. I want to do this right and actually get it done.

this is a good way to look at it. I have lost count of all the projects I have seen for sale that have "everything needed to finish new in the boxes" because ordering stuff and buying parts was easier than actually working on it and around the first major obstacle they say "this is hard" and sell it.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by joedoh

there is no free lunch. s10/IFS, both are a lot of damn work but in different ways. I was trying to impress on you that mounting the body is literally one of the easiest parts with either. building cab and running board mounts and modifying the core support is very minor compared to installing a modern driveline and upgrading the pedals, wiring, and other systems. with an IFS you save the sheetmetal mounting but everything else is still 1:1, you still need pedals and a hydraulic system, steering column and wiring harness, engine and trans mounting, rear axle and shocks, lowering components and a gas tank, etc etc etc.

Perfectly stated. I might also add that I've noticed the aftermarket parts list for the S10 seems a lot longer than a Chevy 3100. Sure, plenty of places to find original stuff for a restoration, but if you want a modified vehicle, the S10 seems easier to find things IMO.

[gigamanx]

[QUOTE=joedoh;7993765]

I am not sure how gigamanx spent $1000 (cost of an IFS) on mounting a V8?
QUOTE]

I'm just adding up the $$ time and effort I have in so far on just getting the S10 frame to a point where its a truck again. My V8 is unique, as you know, because I'm taking the TBI off so all those parts are adding up quick. I didn't expect the amount of modification needed for the frame swap. Looking at the list of things I had to modify, I would have done the same on an IFS. True, price might have stayed the same I have no idea since my goal posts are squarely in the S10 frame swap route.

[MIKESAD50]

Welcome and look forward to following your build.

[Russell Ashley]

Since you already have a C10 check out this thread. He used a later truck suspension and narrowed the cross member to make it fit the frame.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414663

[Matt_50]

I've heard of doing that and using spacers. Ive found very few write ups thank you. Are the frames on the 57 era trucks the same as 47-54?

[mongocanfly]

Ok ..staying with your first idea.. I'm recommending not using the full size truck parts...unless your a glutton for building and rebuilding go with something else that's closer to the same as the AD...not saying it can't be done..but it'll have to sit on the higher side of ride height to work...wether you go m2, s10, vette or whatever try to find something that fits the truck better from the start....there's thousands of build threads here and each one has its own little twists and turns...but what you don't see is many with full size running gear....
for a reason..
And no ,AD and TF frames are nowhere near the same..

[mongocanfly]

^^^^agreed^^^^..I "missed it by that much" a nice 50 for $5500 the other day cause I wasn't quick enough on craigs...it was on there less than 2hrs..mostly complete but disassembled in boxes...had a 5.3/4l60, 8.8 rear m2 front 20" riddlers, new tires....lots of new parts...a complete new bed..it was worth more just for parts than the asking price...guy listed it at 9pm and sold it in less than 2hrs..
He just got overwhelmed I guess..

[Matt_50]

I got the engine and trans out today. Got to love old rusty bolts. Especially the ones that are in funny places that you can't get a cut off wheel into. It'll be nice when I clean and paint the frame. Plan to derust as much as possible and maybe use rustoleum for the frame. What do you guys think? Rust primer and black rustoleum? New bolts...no rust...no dirt...sounds like heaven doesn't it?

[Matt_50]

So im looking at all the crossmember options out there. I'm not buying one yet but do you guys have any favorites? Is there a way to modify stock trans crossmember for a auto? Feel like I remember seeing it somewhere. Both crossmembers are pretty cheap though, looks simple enough. Just to clarify though...both old crossmembers come out? Should I box the frame? This'll just be a daily cruiser..no hot rod stuff.

[gigamanx]

Originally Posted by Matt_50

So im looking at all the crossmember options out there. I'm not buying one yet but do you guys have any favorites? Is there a way to modify stock trans crossmember for a auto? Feel like I remember seeing it somewhere. Both crossmembers are pretty cheap though, looks simple enough. Just to clarify though...both old crossmembers come out? Should I box the frame? This'll just be a daily cruiser..no hot rod stuff.

In build threads, this one seems to come up a lot.

http://www.heidts.com/part/mustang-2...uspension-ifs/

Definitely check out some of the projects in the "Projects and Builds" section. There are discussions on lots of the "what part should I buy" for your particular direction. I have bookmarked my favorite S10 swap builds just so I can go back and see how someone came to the conclusion on certain parts, engine swaps, suspension, interior, etc. I am a huge planner before I starter I am pretty sure I've annoyed the forum enough with my over analytical questions instead of just getting in and getting dirty. So far, buying just what I need for the next project has saved me a ton of money and space

Great example, I started my project with the idea I just wanted to hear the original truck run again. Just a few wires, clean up, etc. $800 in parts later I got her to run. A week later I took it apart, bought an S10 donor and gave away all those parts because they weren't needed anymore. Oops!

As JoeDoh has told me before..... make a plan, stick to the plan. Even something as simple as cleaning up the frame and painting it can be a huge task since everything has to come off. There's no point doing that to your current frame unless you've decided that's the direction you're going in.

As for boxing. I've read the conversation on another thread that the original frame is a beast and requires no modification. Lots of people box the rear end of the S10 if you are looking at towing or putting a huge power plant in there. The S10 front end is already boxed.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=694053

[Matt_50]

Pic with engine out. I'll post the serial numbers on engine and trans...havent even looked them up yet.



https://photos.app.goo.gl/y4T4ojGU7CeWYtAn1

[gigamanx]

I don't see any remnants of something between the hood and supports. I vaguely remember another thread where someone put thin cork stripping between the two to help vibration. I can actually stick my fingers right in between the support and the hood so its not really attached.

I also noticed no parts are listed for the hood supports here:
http://www.classicparts.com/Hood-Parts/products/861/1/0

Flimsy, yes haha. Here are some pictures.

Emblem mount


Emblem mount


Emblem mount


Under hood


Hood support

[joedoh]

if you stripped it with vinegar I would seal it.

when I pull engines and trans together I use two sets of chains, short ones to the rings and then I wrap one around the trans at the bellhousing twice and then to the hook. I use a couple grade 5 bolts to tie the chains together and give it a test lift a couple times to make sure its lifting even and doesnt slip.

dont forget, when you pull the driveshaft you will have a crime scene of trans fluid, I like to cut the driveshaft right at the yoke but if you dont want to cut it you can separate the u joint there, then tape the yoke in the trans to make sure it doesnt fall out.