Project: Tow-Rat (Lil' Blue)

[lower50's]

I use something similar with great results. Called "Rust Check- Rust converter" comes in spray or liquid.

[6DoF]

this weekend was some pretty solid progress! got the entire cab eyebrow sealed internally and replaced, then moved onto finishing all metal work. everything is filled/smoothed with metal as far as i'm going to take it for now. any further body work can be done while it's still drivable. the entire floor and such are wire wheeled and ready for rust prep, that was a meeeessss.

the rust coating on this area left a lot more white than i was used to, and it wouldn't scrub off. but as long as nothing is coming off with me getting aggressive, then it should hold paint on too.

[Rickysnickers]

I know you've said you really hate body work, but you sure are good at it! Very nice.

[gottattooz]

Great job! Loving the progress. They didn't have that replacement piece above the windshield when I redid my dad's 59 long bed. I bought a roof out of a junkyard in Texas and my fabricator friend swapped the entire roof for me.

-Josh

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by Rickysnickers

I know you've said you really hate body work, but you sure are good at it! Very nice.

thank you! i'm slowly learning patients ... smaller tools, with less power, and take my time.

Originally Posted by gottattooz

Great job! Loving the progress. They didn't have that replacement piece above the windshield when I redid my dad's 59 long bed. I bought a roof out of a junkyard in Texas and my fabricator friend swapped the entire roof for me.

-Josh

damn, he's a good friend to swap the whole thing! having to harvest my own patch panels from the junk yard before installing them would get old. these have all been relatively cheap with a great fit and even showed up quick.

[youngrodder]

Looking good. Way to eradicate that evil rust...

Marc

[6DoF]

so i think i'm going to try a new rust converter. the AutoTech Rust-Prep is high shipping cost, and long lead right now. here's my research n thoughts.

the more i look into others, it seams like there are like 2 different actual converters on the market, but sold or "made" by 100 different companies in different % products.

Thick vs thin:
some are sprayable, some are not. when both are offered by the same brand, it's the same stuff, just with reducer.

Primer vs not:
some are ready to paint, some need cleaned of the possible white powder with mineral spirits. the non-primer needs primer over it.

Tannic or Phosphoric acid based:
most won't tell you, some do, but you can figure out by the directions really. the tannic might all have primer, while the phosphoric look to be the ones that need post-cleaning ... cant' 100% confirm, but that's my feeling.

i feel like the AutoTech Rust-Prep is the same as Ospho Metal Treatment ... Phosphoric based, thin, no primer. these will leave the white powder that needs cleaned before priming.

i'm thinking Rust Check, FDC Rust Converter Ultra, Corroseal Rust Converter, MRO Chem Black Star Rust Converter, Eastwood Rust Converter, etc etc etc ... Tannic acid, with primer, sold as thick or thin.

SO! i feel like i'd rather have a thicker, with primer product ... and $10 says they are all the same exact thing with different levels of active agents in a different label. every review says the FDC does 500sqft but most likely needs 2 coats, while the Corroseal does 250sqft but only ever needs one coat. that sounds like FDC is just a watered down Corroseal to me. i know eastwood doesn't make their own stuff, so who's is it? is it just corroseal with a different label and a JACKED up price? i also feel like Corroseal floated to the top of more comparison reviews.

Amazon:
FDC Rust Converter Ultra ... $50
Corroseal Rust Converter ... $67 ... free shipping (might be $10 cheaper on eBay)
AutoTech Rust-Prep ... $51 + $34 shipping
MRO Chem Black Star Rust Converter ... $95
Eastwood Rust Converter ... $134

i'm buying 1gal of the Corroseal on Amazon to do the floor of the '55 with ... stay tuned for further thoughts.

[daddyjeep]

I have used the POR 15 prep, which is Phosphoric acid with Zinc Phosphate, It seemed to eat rust well

[Father&son56project]

6DoF, you've really been doing your homework! I'm looking forward to your results. There are so many competing claims by vendors of rust converters, and I suspect that you are correct. There's only a couple of different ways to do it, and the rest is just different ratios of active ingredients, followed by tons of marketing B.S.!!!

[duramax55]

pciklex is also a good product but can't get it here in Canada anymore but still available in the us i think

[6DoF]

so i finally got all my waste oil in the barrel and set-up for easy transfer into the diesel fuel tanks. while i was doing that, the wife got bored and got to work inside the 55 again! she finished sanding out the door frames and cleaned up everything from when i wire wheeled it too. we got the rust convertor down and i like it.

so the Corroseal was nice to work with and the foam brushes were great. the results look ready to rock.

[dsraven]

she's a keeper.

[6DoF]

got home last night and noticed some lighter brown/orange areas in the floor. turns out that's where i didn't get enough coating, so did a 2nd last night.

when they say "put it on thick" ... they mean it!

[6DoF]

****
Corroseal Update - Please read
****

after giving a pretty solid research/review of the Corroseal ... i would like to revoke that! i'm not sure i'll even finish this bottle.

i tried to read up on the instructions and tried to research before hand ... but i apparently missed stuff. it wasn't until i googled "Corroseal pealing off" where i found a YouTube that i am pretty sure was recorded from a VHS tape. here's what i learned.

1) if you realize it needs a 2nd coat from incomplete conversion, do it and add more.
... HOWEVER adding more to a partial or full cure will ruin the entire coating!
... if it has already started to tach over, chemically must strip it all off and start over
... if it has already fully cured, you must grind it all off and start over

2) if you coat bare steel ... grind it all off and don't do that again, it won't stick.
3) if you coat old pain ... grind it all off and don't do that again, it won't stick.
4) if you coat smooth LIGHTLY RUSTY METAL ... grind it all off and don't do that again, it won't stick.

so basically i started some tape lines for the seam sealer, adjusted one pc and the tape pealed up a bunch of coating. i then set around the floor to test a bunch of places, and was fully disappointed everywhere but ONE place. the ONE place none pealed was single heavy coat on heavy rust. 2nd coat after cure on heavy rust and it was pealing up.

so i will be grinding the entire coating off with a wire wheel. i still think it might have done a decent conversion though, so maybe i'll just prime/paint after grinding.

[dsraven]

Man, that suck. Quick thought though. If the masking tape was peeling it up maybe just duct tape the entire thing, then peel up the duct tape. Easier and safer than wire wheel?
Just kidding. Trying to lighten the mood, you know.....

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by dsraven

Man, that suck. Quick thought though. If the masking tape was peeling it up maybe just duct tape the entire thing, then peel up the duct tape. Easier and safer than wire wheel?
Just kidding. Trying to lighten the mood, you know.....

My wife also offered to help lay down more tape with me

i said i didn't think the lint roller was sticky enough

[6DoF]

yup, screw this junk. unless i call them and they say "oh yeah, that means the distributor froze it, here's a new bottle free" not guna try this again.

it stuck REALLY well in some places, was actually grinding it off ... while other places were flaky BS. the only correlation i can find is it was worse with the 2nd coat. but not all! some places of old paint, stuck amazing and had to grind away paint before it would come off. some places of rust it would come off in sheets.

yes, i shook the crap out of it before using it ... and i'm sure so did the UPS driver.

got the whole thing re-prepped, everything left is solid. thinking it was already dead rust and i've now converted most of it, so i'm just going to hose it with primer and move on to paint.

[6DoF]

well, that's awesome, Amazon is returning the Corroseal!

back to the non-priming, "acid only" stuff. so i started digging into that more.

Ospho - $39.79
TotalBoat - $39.99
Oxy-Gone - $34.99 (claims "just like Ospho" and comes with 2 spray bottles)

then as i was reading reviews and other stuff i caught wind of "how is this different than phosphoric acid for etching concrete at half the price?". looked into that and sure enough, the same green liquid labeled for "concrete and metal prep", at home depot, for $17.97.

Klean-Strip - $16.30

for $16 and available on the shelf locally ... i'm going to give this stuff a try and let yinz know how it goes! if it's the same as the $50 AutoTech Rust-Prep with $30 shipping i was using before, i'm gunna freak out.

edit: the directions on the Klean-Strip actually says to dilute it 3:1 water:solvent for metal prep. is this junk is even stronger!?!?!

[G&R's57GMC]

Hit it with self etching primer then paint it .

[Jason 56]

Having a decent background in chemistry. I can tell you that there are only 2 things you can do with rust. Cut it out or seal it off from any possible future moisture. Once steel begins to oxidize the chemical chain reaction has begun. That reaction requires oxygen and water. So if you don’t cut it out then seal it. Problem with sealing it is that all paint is permeable to water except POR-15 (that I found in researching the topic). It is the only sealant for metal that I know of that actually gets harder in the presence of water and therefore is less permeated. Which is why you don’t want to spray it (won’t come out of your lungs) this is my reasoning for using it on my project. I’ve always seen other encapsulators fail due to their water porousity. If you use POR-15, prime it once it has a finger drag tack (about 30 minutes) and it doesn’t require scuffing. Just my 2 cents on your challenges.

[6DoF]

Originally Posted by Jason 56

Having a decent background in chemistry. I can tell you that there are only 2 things you can do with rust. Cut it out or seal it off from any possible future moisture. Once steel begins to oxidize the chemical chain reaction has begun. That reaction requires oxygen and water. So if you don’t cut it out then seal it. Problem with sealing it is that all paint is permeable to water except POR-15 (that I found in researching the topic). It is the only sealant for metal that I know of that actually gets harder in the presence of water and therefore is less permeated. Which is why you don’t want to spray it (won’t come out of your lungs) this is my reasoning for using it on my project. I’ve always seen other encapsulators fail due to their water porousity. If you use POR-15, prime it once it has a finger drag tack (about 30 minutes) and it doesn’t require scuffing. Just my 2 cents on your challenges.

after reading that i went researching and came across this:
https://4wdlife.com/tech-talk/chassis-saver-vs-por-15/

i had never heard any description like you were saying, but it makes total sense! i used to only use ChassisSaver on the jeeps, and sounds like one of those over the convertor would be an even better total solution too.

Edit: after reading a bit more, there's a chance that the POR-15 metal prep is similar the home depot Cement/Metal Prep. both are a phosphate/phosphoric base.

[6DoF]

one big step forward this weekend for the 55 ... one huge leap backwards for my savings. now that the 12v is set, i have a huge list of crap to buy! now i really want to hear this engine make noise, and really want to get the inside painted, this is great motivation.

a college buddy was in town for a day this weekend on this way by and worked out perfect to help with stabbing it in, always great to see long-time friends!

[daddyjeep]

It's always great to see old friends when you can put them to work. Looks awesome in there with the orange frame rails.

[youngrodder]

Looking great. Setting the body back on the chassis always seems to light the fuse.

Marc

[6DoF]

a buddy ran some test with the $16 Kleen Strip vs the $80 Rust-Prep ... as far as we can tell it's the same stuff! just don't dilute it like the directions say on the kleen strip, us it as-is.

also after reading what Jason was saying, i'm going to chassis saver my floor pan before lizard skin. further pushing that decision as well, while looking over the floor, there's a new surface patina where i cleaned off the corro-crap. that needs sealed! unfortunately my can's were all dried up, so that's ordered now.