1976 Square "Simple Green"

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by diceman50

I have a friend who installed one on a Bronco. Engine would start and then die. Changed the battery and it ran great for a while. Then it wouldn't start at all. It burned up a couple of the pins in the power connector. (the yellow one) He sent it back to FiTech and I have not heard the outcome.

I am getting ready to put one on a friends 69 Camaro. We have already decided if we have any of these issues we will just use the throttle body and the injectors and run it with a GM computer like we are doing with the Retrotec throttle bodies on my Apache. I hope it doesn't come to that.

That blows. How did he determine he burnt up some pins in the connector.
I would like to see that setup on the Apache.

[swampbog]

Since FiTech is closed till Monday you really can't get much help from them till then.
Go spend time with your family and give this a fresh look when you get back, this can wait.


I'll be looking online and seeing what others are saying on the cold start, I'm wondering if it's a setting internally that might be causing it. After all FiTech is in California and they probably don't get as cold as we do.
You didn't have this issue when it was in the 50's did you?

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Since FiTech is closed till Monday you really can't get much help from them till then.
Go spend time with your family and give this a fresh look when you get back, this can wait.


I'll be looking online and seeing what others are saying on the cold start, I'm wondering if it's a setting internally that might be causing it. After all FiTech is in California and they probably don't get as cold as we do.
You didn't have this issue when it was in the 50's did you?

Had this issue from day one. If it's cold no go over 100 it's all good.
O I have the 2 main cogs emails I will blow them up to get a response lol. Yes I need to spend time with family but this helps me take my mind off of everything that has happens this week. Thanks man.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Had this issue from day one. If it's cold no go over 100 it's all good.
O I have the 2 main cogs emails I will blow them up to get a response lol. Yes I need to spend time with family but this helps me take my mind off of everything that has happens this week. Thanks man.

But this is now the first time it started dieing after it starts? Or that was always
the case?
Same with the white screen?

[swampbog]

I've did a quick glance at the installation instructions and I don't see a ground wire.
Is there a ground wire or do they have it just grounding through the block?

[ray1970]

Ray here.
When I was having the battery problem was the only time my screen went BLANK.....every time I tried to start it..
Low voltage.....
has never happened again.

Ray.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
When I was having the battery problem was the only time my screen went BLANK.....every time I tried to start it..
Low voltage.....
has never happened again.

Ray.

Ray,
Blank as in black or white?

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by ray1970

Ray here.
When I was having the battery problem was the only time my screen went BLANK.....every time I tried to start it..
Low voltage.....
has never happened again.

Ray.

Ok. Well I know the battery is good. And like I said even with a jumper on it.

[swampbog]

They don't have this grounding thorough the throttle body itself do they?
I imagine you have a none conductive gasket between the body and the intake, so the only ground it gets is through the "carb to intake" bolts. Which is basically electrically hampered by the powder coating they have on the throttle body.?.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

They don't have this grounding thorough the throttle body itself do they?
I imagine you have a none conductive gasket between the body and the intake, so the only ground it gets is through the "carb to intake" bolts. Which is basically electrically hampered by the powder coating they have on the throttle body.?.

Yep that's how it grounds. Felpro gaskets and a carb space and a throttle bracket also lol. They did tell me to run a ground from the carb stud direct to the battery yesterday. I know the carb studs are grounding verified that when I did the HEI module upgrade. Cause I grounded it to the carb studs.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Yep that's how it grounds.

Well, that's a ****ty ground.
Maybe (and this is a stretch) when it's cold the only areas that are making good "ground" have shrunk due to the cold and when it gets around 100 degrees it warms up and grows and makes contact (thermal dynamics).
Everything moves when it comes to temperature, granted it may be only .001 but even a .001 can make a difference.
You edited your post as I was typing
The studs do have a good ground but the studs are threaded in to the intake. The throttle body coating could possibly not make electrical contact to the studs or not make a good enough one for the ECU.
Again it is a stretch but it could be an issue.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

Went gray kind of.....And I hade my best bake your batty charger on it.
and it spun over good..

The way I finally saw it was if my battery was any good I would not need a charger..
for more than a short time....

Ray.

[swampbog]

I looked at some pics of the FiTech body and I do see none coated areas at the base where the studs go, or are they coted but in a clear only?
Is there only one area that is "non coated"? The few pics I saw it looks like only one area is bare.

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

I looked at some pics of the FiTech body and I do see none coated areas at the base where the studs go, or are they coted but in a clear only?
Is there only one area that is "non coated"? The few pics I saw it looks like only one area is bare.

Yep how mine is only 1 bare area. It has 2 but how mine bolts in it is only contacting 1 bare spot. I believe that may be why they said run a ground from the carb stud.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Yep how mine is only 1 bare area. I believe that may be why they said run a ground from the carb stud.

Gotta ask.
Is that the one you put the ground to and made sure it electrically contacts the bare area?

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

Gotta ask.
Is that the one you put the ground to and made sure it electrically contacts the bare area?

No. I hooked the HEI module to a back carb stud and its is grounded. Also just checked the bare are it is getting ground also.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

No. I hooked the HEI module to a back carb stud and its is grounded. Also just checked the bare are it is getting ground also.

Hmm..I wonder if it's not making a proper ground on the inside of the unit.
Or could it still be a fuel issue. But the screen going white (or gray for Ray) kinda makes me think it's electrical somehow.

Some of what I've been reading
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show...835633&page=10 Post 142 to 169 and it continues on with others stating no issues.

And another who fiddle with the IAC and had 12V issues
http://gmc.mybirdfeeder.net/GMCforum...o=292259&rid=0

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...-review-4.html Post 65 talking about ground issues with cold start

Seems to be something with the 12V and ground.
I still say try the direct wire for hot and ground and on the ground try all the studs just to put that to rest.
We have a few more months of cold to get this figured out. Just what you wanted to hear, isn't it.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Yep how mine is only 1 bare area. I believe that may be why they said run a ground from the carb stud.

Originally Posted by RodsGreen10

Yep how mine is only 1 bare area. It has 2 but how mine bolts in it is only contacting 1 bare spot. I believe that may be why they said run a ground from the carb stud.

You and your damn edits....

[swampbog]

I looked at your video again, (it's one of the videos that popped up on a search) and I think I found a issue.
It's that damn clear air cleaner cover you have. The FiTech unit can see that it's crappy outside and it doesn't want to get out of bed.
https://youtu.be/rfauqfN8m7c?t=18s

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by swampbog

I looked at your video again, (it's one of the videos that popped up on a search) and I think I found a issue.
It's that damn clear air cleaner cover you have. The FiTech unit can see that it's crappy outside and it doesn't want to get out of bed.
https://youtu.be/rfauqfN8m7c?t=18s

Lol.

[ray1970]

Ray here.

I'm done beating this horse after this...For it my not be your problem.

Lets go back in time when Yamaha made the XS650 twins late 70s
They would not e-start when cold unless the battery was less than two months old
but would go off first kick.....when warm they fired rite up it drove me crazy and the customers weren't real happy.....The Ing.would not work over the draw of the starter..

I'm glad those days are over...

Well its time to load my snowmobiles and go for a ride.


You do have a kick starter...Well maybe a hand crank....just kidding....

Ray. OUT

[RUN GMC]

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

[RodsGreen10]

Originally Posted by RUN GMC

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

I really really think it is a ground issue. But that would be a design flaw on FiTechs part. Cause they sure as hell don't have a ground wire or anything of that nature for the system. They are using the carb studs as the grounds. But when I called and talked and BS with them it was o runs ground from the carb stud to the battery. WTF... Give me a ground already terminated in the harness and let me ground it to the block or frame.

[swampbog]

Originally Posted by RUN GMC

So I started to really think about what was going on here and I just remembered in the "Hot Rod to the rescue"section that a guy with a truck had a cold crank issue (Greg says he had to “crank it forever” to get the truck started ) with a 502hp ZZ502 big-block crate motor.....well after re-reading the last statement stood out and it was...(Im not saying you are wrong at all about your grounding) but a good read non the less................

4. Improper electrical grounds: “EFI systems don’t work properly if the grounds don’t go back to the battery’s Negative post.” Sensors operate under minute voltage variations, so any voltage fluctuations, resistance, or drop can introduce erroneous readings. Remember, the circuit’s ground-side is part of the total circuit length, and hence, contributes to resistance and voltage drop. A standard chassis-ground won’t cut it.

.....at the end of the read was the top 4 EFI mistakes this was one.......here is the link to the article.......................

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...over-internet/

.....I hope this shines a light on something we are not seeing...Rod Im sorry for your family's lost at this time........God speed and good luck......

That was an interesting read. It would be so cool if we could do that with the FiTech unit but from what Ray and Rod have found out about the data logging it's very doubtful, maybe their next generation will be better equip to do something like that.

[swampbog]

Like I said i get to mess with yours to fix any problems when I finally get mine.
It's just me thinking of myself.

Speaking of myself...

Have you seen Holleys' new Hydra Mat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI
I'm thinking of getting one for me or maybe even going to Tanks Inc fuel pump module http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/pa...prod/prd84.htm
But I kinda like the idea of having the fuel pump externally mounted so if it goes bad on a trail I can easily replace it without dropping the tank.
But the Hydra Mat isn't cheap either and they say 5-10 years before you should replace it depending on the dirtiness of the fuel and how often you drive it. Again dropping the tank to replace it.
But if I cut an access panel in the floor I can do either easily.

Oh and I'm running all PTFE line from tank to the EFI.