It’s Just A Pickup

[matt67350]

Breaker, Breaker 19. You have a great build going on. That truck will keep the Bears out of your Hair. 10 4 Good Buddie! LOL

[VA72C10]

Nice job.....as usual!

[swamp rat]

That liner looks pretty good, i was thinking about buying one when i first got my truck about 15 years ago.

[mjensen]

That looks great! Its fun to watch a build that pays so much attention to detail, and goes through the added pain of documenting everything for the rest of us! Thanks!

[nickp51chevy]

That head liner in there looks great. I kinda want to get one for my truck now.

[west9378]

Hello Bruce, I see you are using Dynamat in the roof for noise reduction. Earlier I noticed you lined the underside of the hood with insulation and or noise reducing mat, and in another post you mentioned the undercoating that would also help to reduce noise, I have been looking at Dynamat and lizard skin to reduce noise and help control the temperature. I was going to spray a thin coat of Lizard skin on the exterior floor and foot well up to the bottom of the fire wall. Then on the inside of the cab I would apply Dyna mat to the floor up to and including fire wall if possible, lower area of the back of cab, inside of doors and like you under headliner.
I have also heard you can overdo the insulation and noise reduction,
Also what is the big difference between insulation to reduce heat and noise reduction?
This truck will be my daily driver.
Thank you
West

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by west9378

Hello Bruce, I see you are using Dynamat in the roof for noise reduction. Earlier I noticed you lined the underside of the hood with insulation and or noise reducing mat, and in another post you mentioned the undercoating that would also help to reduce noise, I have been looking at Dynamat and lizard skin to reduce noise and help control the temperature. I was going to spray a thin coat of Lizard skin on the exterior floor and foot well up to the bottom of the fire wall. Then on the inside of the cab I would apply Dyna mat to the floor up to and including fire wall if possible, lower area of the back of cab, inside of doors and like you under headliner.
I have also heard you can overdo the insulation and noise reduction,
Also what is the big difference between insulation to reduce heat and noise reduction?
This truck will be my daily driver.
Thank you
West

Hi West

There is a difference between noise reduction spray on material and insulation; some times insulation can perform both objectives.

Insulation generally prevents heat from going from one area to another by creating a dead air space. With the hood insulation that’s my primary reason to prevent the engine heat getting to the underside of the hood (it will also give a small amount of noise reduction). The insulation that I installed under the headliner is doing double duty but primarily will be to absorb sound. The density of this insulation is denser than the hood insulation good at absorbing sound not as good to prevent heat transfer but some will be achieved.

Noise reduction mats or spray on material prevents the panel from resonating sound. You know that tinny sound metal makes when tapped. It’s not very good at preventing heat transfer and not as good at absorbing sound as ½ inch thick dense foam rubber insulation. I’m not familiar with Lizard Skin but it probably has rubber granules in it and when it’s applied will help prevent any tinny sound like the bed liner material I used under the cab. I’ve heard that the spray on works very good in reducing the tinny sound and can give added protection from damage and rust.

I have some noise reduction mats that I will be using on the rear cab wall and inside the doors. This kind of falls into old school approach to preventing that tinny sound. This approach has been used for years; you could find some 1/8 inch thick tarpaper like material inside some doors and trunks to deaden the sound on some cars. You don’t need to cover the complete panel with the mat to get a majority of the sound eliminated. In fact if you cover the complete area you could cause some places that will trap water between the mat and the panel (not a good idea) you need to allow the area to drain or not retain water. This is probably where you’re hearing that you can overdo insulation or noise reduction.

Hope this helps you out in what to use where depending on what you’re trying to achieve.

Bruce

[msgross]

you'll see a lot of pros only placing noise reduction pieces (dynamat) in key open areas of metal panels. This provides enough to prevent the tin can affect as you stated.... smothering sometimes doesn't help any more than smaller well placed pieces.

[west9378]

Bruce, Thank you very much.
West

[Bruce88]

Some things change over time and others remain the same
Expectations are high (a good thing) but can it be accomplished
Decisions, Decisions, Decisions

Things I wish some one would have told me many years ago, definitely would have minimized and possibly eliminate some frustration and the final outcome of some projects. Of course it falls with in the range of personal experience and trying to fall within reality. I think many of us are wanting perfection and possibly disappointed when it doesn’t turn out that way due to limitations of material, ability, time or cost.

Most of us have been to a high end custom car show or seen some pictures and put it in our minds, that’s the way I want my body and paint to end up on my project. Yes it’s achievable but not necessarily the best for lets say a daily driver out in the weather and wanting it to last. Since where starting with a 40+ year old truck there’s plenty of things standing in the way, not to mention that most of the trucks where used as work trucks and little attention was paid to keeping them looking good or maintaining its appearance over the years.

(Where to start) Before anything is disassembled or sanded do a complete inspection of the truck and write down all that’s found. This inspection is more than a casual look, get in close to all areas and document dents, rust, bubbled paint, or previous repairs that can be found. This can be time consuming but well worth it, it gives you an overall picture of what you’re starting with and a list of things that need to be addressed. Minimizing areas that crop up during a build, yes your probably not going to find everything but the more you find will definitely help determine how much work is going to be required. One thing that can kill a build fast is every time you go out to work on the truck you find something else that needs to be done, its like the project is fighting you or your body man is calling to say they found more that needs to be done and the cost and time is going up. I’m of the opinion that there is very little that can’t be rebuilt but some times its better to find something in better shape to start with and not find out into the rebuild that maybe I should have found a better part to start with.

The next point that’s probably the hardest thing to do is to define how you’re going to use the truck. I would classify this as over building or under building and generally in the end and over time you will not be satisfied if you don’t get it right. Your satisfaction and enjoyment is very important in the long run and there are few that would want to venture into a build or do another build because the satisfaction is not met and some of that is not defining how the truck will be used. I can tell you that you’re probably not going to be satisfied with what would be call a trailer quean show truck with all the work that’s involved in maintaining it if it’s used as a daily driver parked in the drive way that you just want to jump into and drive. Making this decision before the build is started can save you time and money and in the end you will have what is enjoyable for you to have and use. Not to say there’s something wrong with a trailer quean it’s just that it wasn’t made to be a daily driver and the amount of work and maintenance to use it as one is almost unthinkable.

(Keep track of things) Even if you’re planning to throw some parts away or plan on replacing them. This is especially true for all the small parts like nuts, bolts, spacers, springs and so on. Don’t just throw all of them into one container like a can or box as you disassemble it. I use zip lock plastic bags and a marker pen and try to keep them separated and marked by area like LH front marker light or RH headlight. All the parts for that one area are in one bag, screws, clip on nut plates and the part like the marker light if it’s small enough to fit. Even a rusted, damaged or broken part has a benefit to hold on to for comparison to the new parts or in obtaining new parts. There’s going to be some time between disassembly and assembly and finding that small part in a larger pile of similar parts and trying to remember what it looked like is time consuming & frustrating and when you don’t find it, your into the mode where do I find one possibly adding more frustration and delay to the build. Replacement parts don’t always come with all the small hardware. There’s plenty of time when the project/build is over to get rid of the parts and the added time to keep everything marked and separated will pay big benefits on reassembly.

(Make notes to self) Taking pictures of areas before disassembly can help with putting it back together. But a simple note pad and pen can help keep track of things that you want to do, a project can become overwhelming/frustrating fast. Making some quick notes as you disassemble the parts with thoughts on if you going to use the part as is, rebuild it, refinish it, or replace it, this includes the small hardware parts such as nuts and bolts. This is not an absolute decision on the outcome for the part, but it gives you a starting point. There are plenty of decisions that are going to need to be made by you regarding a build/body and paint and the sooner there made and planed for the smoother things will progress. Forgetting that the part needed to be replaced and waiting till you are assembling it can add time, cost, and delays. I’ve found that taking care of the small parts ahead of time and generally the larger parts will fall in line. As you’re taking things apart you might find additional areas that need to be added to your original assessment list (keep your original assessment list up do date as you disassemble the truck).

(Dealing with rust) Just how much rust can you live with? I think most would say get rid of it all, a nice thought but not very practical or for that mater achievable. With out taking every panel apart at the spot welds and seams there’s going to be some rust on some of the inside areas that you can’t get to. If you have holes rusted thru the sheet metal yes it needs to be cut back to good metal and replaced. So I think a better question would be, what is the minimum metal thickness you can live with? That’s a question I find very few if any that will give any guidance or rule of thumb to help out in making some kind of decision on what you can do when you run into rusted metal other than to say get rid of it all. The metal on our truck bodies is 18 to 16 gage (0.048 to 0.060 thick) as long as at least 50% of the thickness of good metal is there and you can’t push a flat tip screwdriver thru the metal, it should be solid enough to use. For the areas you can’t get to to remove the rust and the outside metal appears sound like in a channel I would spray some rust encapsulating paint in the channel in a attempt to slow it down and help it from rusting any more. This might not be the most popular answer concerning what to do with rust and how to handle it, but it gives you a starting point to consider. The longer you work with older trucks the better the chance you will run into rusted panels and will need to make some kind of decision on how to address it.

(To strip or not to strip) Does paint were out, everything wears out and paint is no exception. A lot of how long will paint last depends on how it was maintained and protected. If the truck has the original paint on it and it looks fair no checking, cracking, pealing, or major oxidation it falls into the possibility that it doesn’t need to be stripped. The original finish will still need about 50% or more of that finish to be removed close to the original primer. The quick scuff and shoot paint jobs in my opinion is a waist of time, money and effort and rarely last long. What you should be trying to achieve is consistent layers of good paint with each layer doing its job protecting, sealing, color, and exterior finish. Having thin or enough paint layers or having thick layers can cause problems in a long lasting total end finish. I believe that the majority of our trucks need to be stripped down to bare metal if you’re doing a total paint job. I prefer media blasting over chemical stripping, both can have there problems that can crop up like warping panels with sandblasting or getting all the chemical out of every nook and cranny. Not that I would like to deal with a warped panel but I can see it, if you don’t get all the chemical stripper removed you might not be able to see it and only find out when the paint start falling off after your finished.

(What material to use) Generally you get what you pay for and the added plus is they last longer and work together. This seems like a never ending problem, trying to figure out what to use and being satisfied with it and not to create a problem in products working together. As a starting point that works for me, find out what the professionals are using in your area and where they are getting it from. This should get you to at least a commercial grade product, this would be a minimum to use. Even if you’re going to have a body and paint shop do the work knowing what their using and where their getting it from is a benefit in determine weather you’re going to have them do the work. If the body and paint shop is not willing to give you the brand names of the products their using or where their getting them from, I would probably not be using them to do the work. Some brand name products have mutable grades that they supply I would stay with the middle grade or better.

All the different paint chemicals out there can cause a problem if they don’t work with one another. I’m not a painter and it gets confusing real fast and this problem can create a situation which you don’t want to try and address after you’re into painting or done. The only way that I’ve found to address this problem is to use a brand name products system for all the paint layers. The product manufacturer has generally laid out what product to use along each step from bare metal all the way to the finished top coat. It’s probably going to cost more money by obtaining all the chemicals from one manufacturer product line but they’ve worked out what products of theirs work together. Finding out that the top finish material doesn’t work with the lower layers applied, it’s too late. Working backwards from the top finish all the way down to bare metal is the way to do the job once and needs to be thought about before the first coat of primer is applied.

The most confusing word for me in painting is primer. Special attention needs to be done and considerations needed before you apply any primer. There are different kinds of primers out there and using the wrong one is a problem. The basic definition what primer does is to adhere to the surface under it and provide a top surface that the top coating can adhere to. Some primers also seal and fill. If you’re using the primer as temporary metal protection after welding to prevent rust starting and the primer will be removed before body and paint work starts any bare metal primer will do. After you start using body filler and you don’t plan on removing the primer you need to use the right one, just because it says primer doesn’t mean that it is right for all surfaces and that all top coats will work with it.

(Body filler) Stay away from the cheap generic brands of body fillers, they can absorb water and rust can start and then the filler will fall off. The brand name body fillers are less likely to allow water to get to the metal and are more stable at a wider temperature range and less likely to crack or chip. Don’t go cheap on the body filler or all the work put into the body and paint might not last.

(Gaps and alignment) A lot of time and work can be spent to bring all the panels fit and fair into perfect alignment with each other. For any truck you plan on driving I would stay away from trying to make all the gaps as small as possible (At the bottom end of the tolerances) As the truck is driven around the panels move around a slight amount and opening and closing a door with the front edge close to the fender panel, interference with each other can happen. The gaps are normally set prior to paint and if their close and you add the paint thickness, the paint starts chipping or scuffing on the other panel. I would use the middle tolerance as a minimum. Normally this problem doesn’t crop up until after you drive the truck around some and then you find the interference and chipping.

Body and paint is a large investment in time and money with a complete refinish for your truck. There are plenty of decisions that you will need to make along the line of getting it done. The above are mistakes I’ve made or others have made over the years and this is how I’ve attempted to minimize the problems. I enjoy working on the truck and some times solving problems, it falls into an achievement for me. There are plenty of problems in achieving the end goal, if this helps in you obtaining yours I think you will enjoy your build more. It’s not easy to do a build/body & paint, if it was everybody would be doing it. Your feeling/achievement in doing the task and enjoyment play a large part in a build.

Enjoy your build

[VA72C10]

Awesome writeup as usual!!! If it's okay I will be taking parts of the thread or the entire thread and adding it to the FAQ section

[my90k5]

Thank you Bruce for setting me straight, lol. I almost became overwhelmed by the project I had staring me in the face but after reading your thoughts I'm much more relaxed. I myself tag and bag every nut and bolt with documentation and lots of pictures.

You did bring up a good point about inspecting and documenting dent's rust etc.. before any work, I will definitely heed your advice on that one.

Thanks for sharing your insight and knowledge.

[y5mgisi]

That was a really good read!

[Dinos63]

Bruce ,wow you need to have your own tv show!!you are amazing wealth of of info!! no kidding thank you sir! and on that note i wish your were my neighbor you never ever have to do yard work

[Sonicman]

Once again sir you have enlightened me......thank you for sharing your knowledge. Don't stop.

[VTX-treme]

signed up on this forum just for this build. Never have I found such attention to detail and great documentation. Awesome build.

Glenn

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by VA72C10

Awesome writeup as usual!!! If it's okay I will be taking parts of the thread or the entire thread and adding it to the FAQ section

I have no problem with you using any portion of this thread anywhere you think it might help others. Maybe just linking to the post number on the thread would be the simple way to do it. Thank you for the compliment

Originally Posted by VTX-treme

signed up on this forum just for this build. Never have I found such attention to detail and great documentation. Awesome build.

Glenn

I see this is your first post to this forum, welcome and thank you Glenn
I think your going to find a number of good threads/posts on this forum as you look around, there’s so many it can be overwhelming and enjoyable all at the same time (smile)

[Bruce88]

Making one modification fit with another
Working together is the end goal

I wanted a 3 point automatic retract shoulder/seat belt in my truck. I always like to see what the factory did and what hardware they used. They did have a 3 point set up as an option but it was a manual system no automatic retracting shoulder belt. This was good because at least the 3 attach points existed to be used. The two nuts in the floor are ½ - 13 (course threads) and the nut in the upper corner of the cab is 7/16 – 20 (fine threads).

Looking around at the aftermarket for our truck there are a number of kit out there, they all seem to me to use a very similar retractor assembly that they fit between the seat and the door or door pillar. One modification I’m doing is causing a problem and another is helping in solving it. The aftermarket seat that I’m using is 2 – 3 inches wider than the stock seats causing a interference problem fitting the retractor assembly between the door and seat but because I removed my gas tank from the cab and relocated it, there’s room to move the retractor assembly aft.

I picked up two item # BELT40B-BK, Bucket Retract Shoulder Seat Belt, Black by Quality Chevrolet & GMC Truck Parts from Classic Heartbeat Pickup Parts. The nuts and bolts with the kits, I decided not to use because there was no ½ bolts or shoulder bolts in the kits. The shoulder bolts I obtained from Wesco Performance and the rest from my local hardware store all are grade 5. The mounting bracket for the retractor I made from 2 inch x 2 inch x ¼ inch thick angle iron 4 inches long.

Modifying a seat belt installation can cause problems that need to be considered in what you do, making the system ineffective or even dangerous to use. I believe that I’ve addressed those problems in this installation, any one seeing a problem with this installation please let me know.

All that’s left is some pictures, probably of more interest to you (smile)









Enjoy your build

[67chevy1series]

great job bruce ,finally some progress. cant wait to see this truck completed.

[FLDBRED]

Bruce who are you? Did you ever think about running for public office? I'm not kidding!

[Bruce88]

Originally Posted by FLDBRED

Bruce who are you? Did you ever think about running for public office? I'm not kidding!

Not exactly sure on how to answer the question

I’m just a backyard mechanic trying to share my build with others and also have a place for all the information about this build to be in one place for me. I’ve worked on aircraft, cars and trucks for many years and being retired now it gives me time to put this build together on this forum.

In the past for me the most enjoyable time was when some one stopped over or I went to their place to see what their doing or to show off what I’m doing. There was the working together, sharing experiences, solving problems, trying something new or sometimes just sitting around talking about what to do down the road. As the years pass things change, I’m just trying to recreate those enjoyable times again in this forum for me. That has been my attempt in this build thread, the problem is trying to represent you actually being hear. The questions of where did you get that, how did you do that, this might be a better solution, or something you might see that doesn’t even need to be talked about.

So for my political statement (smile), to the question (Bruce who are you) I’m just me, and as far as running for public office (NO). I think I’m more of a hands on type and prefer doing.

Maybe I should change the build thread name to (thank you for stopping by) Input and thoughts are appreciated.

Enjoy your build

[west9378]

Bruce over the last 12 to 14 months I have enjoyed stoppoing in to see what has been sone in Bruce's Garage that day. Hey that sounds like a really good place to startup here on this forum I do not know but I bet even the most experienced and long time members would think the knowledge you could share would be most valueable to everyone even making the membership to this forum more valuable to the members and potential members.
Just Say No To Politics, when you finish your build I hope you will open a new section in the forum called "Bruce's Garage" "all Input and thoughts are appreciated and even some dumb questions".
and that is just my thought thank you FLDBRED for your post that got Bruce to give us this insight.
Good day!!!
West

[FLDBRED]

Bruce,
I hope my post didn't make you feel uncomfortable! You have an unique ability to make both the most experienced and novice feel like they are part of your build,friends you could say! Your attention to detail is second to none,yet at the same time the first time builder can relate! I would bet that you have been successful in any thing you put your mind to! Anyway thanks for being...just you!

[mcbassin]

Nice work on the seatbelt installation. Great idea. Couple of questions, did your cab come with shoulder belts? If not, how did you do the upper anchor points? is there a re-inforcement welded in? I can't tell from the pictures. thanks

[dmack91]

Thanks for the write up. I already used your template for installing the mirrors on my 68.

When I installed seatbelts in mine, I did extend the receivers. Without doing so, they worked, but always seemed just a bit too short. I welded up some mounts out of 1/4" angle iron gusseted on the sides. I could probably lift the truck with them, but didn't think it was a place to scrimp and you can't see them in mine.

To the last post, my 68 even had the upper mounts threaded from the factory- just had to pull the plugs out and install a factory bolt.

Thanks again Bruce.