Restoring Rusty

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by peabobble

I'd check the intake gaskets.

I think you may be on to something, I remember when I pulled my Vortec heads at the junk yard from that 1999 Suburban I took pictures of the intake manifold gaskets that were on there cause I liked them, they were the Fel-Pro 98000. However when I wanted to buy them they only came in a gasket set which ran about $50, so I opted out, now I regret it

Today when I Googled that part number I came across this article:

Fel-Pro Introduces Solution to Intake Manifold Gasket Leaks on Millions of Vehicles.
Publication: Business Wire
Date: Thursday, October 14 2004
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SOUTHFIELD, Mich. -- Fel-Pro(R), the automotive service industry's premier brand of engine sealing technologies, has introduced an advanced PermaDryPlus(R) replacement intake manifold gasket design that solves chronic coolant leakage issues facing millions of light trucks and sport-utility vehicles.
Fel-Pro Gaskets, "The Gaskets Professionals Trust," are manufactured and marketed by Federal-Mogul Corporation (OTCBB:FDMLQ).

Available through Fel-Pro suppliers across North America, the brand's latest gasket innovation ensures a lasting seal on millions of domestic engines that rely on extended-life coolant and were factory-equipped with rigid nylon and molded rubber-type intake manifold gaskets. A broad range of domestic engines may be susceptible to these sealing issues. Immediate coverage of the new Fel-Pro solution is offered for General Motors 5.0L and 5.7L engines manufactured from 1996 through 2002. Additional coverage -- for select Ford (3.8L, 4.0L and 4.2L) and G.M. (3.1L, 3.4L and 4.3L) applications -- will be introduced in early 2005.

"It appears that on some engines, the use of conventional plastic-and-rubber gaskets in combination with the more aggressive 'OAT' (Organic Acid Technology) engine coolants has caused a significant number of sealing-related issues for consumers and automotive service providers," said Fel-Pro Chief Engineer Jerry Rosenquist. "Our team has spent the past two years developing and testing a variety of gasket technologies that can survive in this very difficult operating environment. (Dex Cool for those forum members who might not know)

"Our new PermaDryPlus gasket is absolutely the best answer for millions of engines exhibiting sealing problems induced by aggressive coolant chemistries and engine-specific dynamic issues."

The new Fel-Pro PermaDryPlus gasket features a high-strength aluminized steel carrier that is edge molded and encapsulated with a proprietary fluoroelastomer (FKM) material. In addition, the new gasket features three separate sealing beads around coolant ports to ensure a long-lasting seal under any situation.

A key element of the Fel-Pro design, the new FKM material was specifically formulated by Federal-Mogul chemists to resist OAT coolants. "We ran our final dyno test for 612 hours and the gasket looked so good it was difficult to distinguish it from an untested part," Rosenquist said.

"The steel provides the strength needed to resist cracking and crushing, and the FKM provides exceptional fluid sealing under all conditions. This design solves the primary leakage issue everyone knows about as well as other concerns typical of engines that have entered the repair cycle.

"The consumer and service provider recognize the problem by the coolant spots that are left on the ground. Unfortunately, retorquing the manifold bolts simply causes additional damage to the carrier, making the leakage much worse," Rosenquist added. Coolant ultimately can leak into the engine oil, causing significant damage to internal components, he said.

Fel-Pro engineers tested several gasket technologies before identifying the new encapsulated design as the best solution, according to Rosenquist. "Our ultimate design is the right choice by any measure - strength, fluid sealability, corrosion resistance, affordability, and ease of installation."

[Gregski]

so my Fel Pro MS98000T Intake Manifold Gasket Set arrived from Rock Auto

[Gregski]

cleaned up the 12 foot counter top for to lay out all the bits as I take them off for this intake manifold swap project

I have no idea how this large counter top gets filled up with junk faster than I can blink an eye, the fact that it's empty is such an anomaly

this may be the first big truck project in the new house, "our" new house, since we finally bought a place last year and will not be moving this year, ha ha

[Gregski]

now I learned this the hard way, so one of the things I like to do before yankin' the distributor now is to line up the Top Dead Center TDC mark at 0 and take a note of where the Rotor points to

(I find that removing the spark plugs makes it a whole lot easier to turn the engine over by hand - plus it don't hurt to read your spark plugs from time to time non either)

Now I'm too tired right now to explain why it don't be pointin' at the #1 spark plug I recon it's pointin' to where it's pointin' (more like at #2) on the account of my 15* or so degrees of initial advance or something like that

either way note where it points to and with this extra step of lining up the TDC mark I know that when or if things shift during this project I can get it all lined up again headache free

[Gregski]

I think about an hour later I had the intake manifold off, and nothing bad jumped out at me, the old gasket actually looked pretty good, though I had to tear it into three pieces to get it off cause I used some adhesive to set it in place especially around the water ports

then the unfun part of the project began, hint: gasket scraper

this is where we leave off for the night, the new gasket goes on in the AM

naturally we had some gorgeous weather in the high 70*s already except for today and tomorrow, it is raining like cats and dogs and so its kinda cold and windy

[Gregski]

so I pride myself on keeping a clean engine bay, so I can't believe how dirty my brand new (one year old to be exact) intake manifold got on a newly rebuilt engine in just one year of driving

this proves to me that there are two kinds of cars, trailer queens and daily drivers, and it's just darn hard to keep our dailies spic n span clean

oh there may be some weekend warriors in the middle of those two extremes those are the guys who spend more time washing their cars than driving them though - they also most likely own BMW motorcycles, ha ha

For The Record - we took this intake and the valve covers to the car wash where we power washed them proper

[Gregski]

... yes I do all of my own stunts

(Thanks Pontiac Mike for taking this action shot for me)

[Gregski]

so after a test drive and toppin' off the coolant and allowing the rig to sit over night, this mornin' I decided to do a pressure test on the cooling system

as always I started to pump it up to 15 PSI when I saw this...

it ain't easy folks, it ain't easy

[Gregski]

fortunately it turned out to be just a loose hose clamp, so lets see if she can hold the pressure now

(Did I mention how highly I recommend gettin' one of these radiator pressure tester pump thingies, I got this Mityvac one on Amazon and I love it) I belive they used to be metal now they is plastic, but times are a changin' so it will have to do

[LT7A]

I always say, if you can't beat 'em - FKM. Whhaaat?

[LT7A]

Anyway, this is good, practical information and much appreciated. I hope this new gasket set works well for you. I'll be watching with interest.

[Gregski]

So One Week and 200 miles later Bad News - Same Problem, milk shake, coolant in the oil, and radiator low on coolant, sucks!

Where do we go from here?

Well I have replaced the head gaskets already a few months back and that didn't fix it so I have another set of Vortec heads which I am going to take to a machine shop to have the Basic Head Service done on them (wash, magnaflux ie check for cracks, new guides, valve job, etc.) then I will swap the heads and see if that fixes the problem, if not then I know it's a cracked block, well maybe. I may also take the take off heads to the machine shop to have them check them, but since this is my daily driver I need the truck daily.

the overlow reservoir was full last weekend, now completely dry, but that may have been do to the system not being perfectly topped off, cause in the past this thing was low but never dry

[rusty76]

I really hope you get ole rusty fixed up.

[hatzie]

If you have leaks into the cylinders you'll get a jumpy needle on the cooling system pressure gauge with the engine running.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by hatzie

If you have leaks into the cylinders you'll get a jumpy needle on the cooling system pressure gauge with the engine running.

Interesting, thanks, I will give that test a try.

[Gregski]

so just dropped off my spare set of 1999 Chevy Suburban Vortec cylinder heads at Nichols & Sons Machine Shop in Sacramento, California for a basic head job (clean, magnaflux, valve job, resurface, paint, and assemble) I provide the valve stem oil seals

Anyone care to guess how much this will cost me in 2018 in California? Keep in mind these are 18 year old junkyard heads that we pulled for a cheap build!

[Sik66]

$468

[Sik66]

Nah....I don't know.....but guessing might be cheaper to buy a new set alloys!

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Sik66

Nah....I don't know.....but guessing might be cheaper to buy a new set alloys!

I would be lying to you if I said I didn't think about it, ha ha. But the cheapest aluminum SBC cylinder heads I found by ProMaxx run you $850 a pair and as I learned assembled heads mean No rockers, so by the time you add rockers ($200) and new head bolts ($100) you are well North of a grand, and I hope my machining will run a fraction of that.

[Gregski]

could someone explain to me how replacing the intake manifold gasket caused my 1 year old starter solenoid to fail, ha ha

right after I replaced that intake gasket I battled hard starts when the engine was warm/hot it sounded like the engine was fighting itself when I tried to start it when it was already hot of course I blame the long tube headers, hee hee

I share this with you, because I thought what's the deal do I have too much timing, well that couldn't have been it cause I am running less initial advance now by 2* than I was before

ok, what is it vapor lock in the carb, must be the carb - - - nope

below is a pic of my old starter (or partial pic) my buddy Pontiac Mike taught me my old starter was not a high torque starter (not that that's what the problem was, it's just that there's two kinds) when the solenoid is bolted directly down to the starter like in this pic its a low torque, if it has a long copper looking spacer behind it it's high torque (second pic)

sorry I don't have better pics, I literally replaced the starter in an ally behind McDonald across the street from my work yesterday (Friday morning) Roadkill Style - LOL

[Gregski]

you guys heard of the Occam's razor principle?

I believe it's the idea that sometimes the simplest solution is the best solution.

Let me give you an example: The other day I was at an open mike event when we could not hear the performer, well after toying with the karate-okie machine it turned out that the microphone was OFF, and after the singer turned it ON, the guitar player in the background was overheard blurring out "Occam's razor"

so my point is, if your truck was starting fine and now you have a starting issue, look at the starter before jumping to messing with timing and carb etc

Motor De Arranque Nuevo (for our Spanish speaking affiliates)

Duralast Gold - you get what you pay for and this is so much nicer than the prior Value craft I had in there! truck starts so smoothly now on first kick, ha ha but I'll be honest with you I only bought this one cause it had a smaller (shorter) solenoid and I wanted a starter with the smallest form factor possible to keep it as far away from the heat from the long tube headers as possible, and this is the best I could score at AutoZone

sorry no pics of the actual starter as this was a rush job, roadside repair I kid you not, I was so proud of myself for just knocking it out rather than calling triple aye!

[rusty76]

You know everybody told me long tube headers and starters don’t mix well. I didn’t have any issues. And when the old starter gave up the ghost I didn’t have to remove the headers to get the starter on and off like I was told. Good luck in your endeavors.

[deejaaa1]

are you sure the head to intake surface is the correct angle to seal? i don't know gassers as well as diesels but heard tale of certain heads and intakes not mating properly.

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by deejaaa1

are you sure the head to intake surface is the correct angle to seal? i don't know gassers as well as diesels but heard tale of certain heads and intakes not mating properly.

yes I am following GM crate engine specs and using GM Performance cylinder heads and dual plane intake manifold

[LT7A]

Man, sorry to hear about all the setbacks. I hope the new set of heads checks out good and that the starter holds up.

By the way, I heard a rumor that Heisenberg used Occam's razor to kill Schrodinger's cat. As yet unconfirmed.