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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ishpeming, MI
Posts: 36
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Hey rfmaster, I have been playing with my ride and well it runs awesome expect at idle it just wont idle its too low. I don't have any leaks I have checked ! I thought I read some where something about resetting something?
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#2 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
//RF
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"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ishpeming, MI
Posts: 36
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Well I went and bought a TBI gasket kit including the pressure regulator put everything together and now idles in park and in gear at 250 on the tack, but when its warmed up and idling in gear and I get on it she spits and sputters a little. I am sitting at about 4* with the timing.
Last edited by Chad77; 06-08-2011 at 10:17 PM. |
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#4 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
250 on the tach ??? That's a bit low?? //RF
__________________
"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ishpeming, MI
Posts: 36
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Iam sorry I failed to tell you I found out the vacuum on the 283 was to low to run the TBI so I ended up swapping in a 350.
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#6 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ishpeming, MI
Posts: 36
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Ok I got to take my truck out on the road.... Hope you can help, I ease into the pedal Iam fine on take off, but if I get into it she spits sputters back fires through the TBI and if I stay in it it will die. when Iam running at about 45mph and I kick it down she studders and then goes. When Iam sitting their Idling in park I can rev and their is no problems.?.?.
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#7 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
So far - you have 350 CID motor (I assume it is stock??) - details please it is very important to know what we are trying to work on. Trany - THM-350?? VSS = Yes or no. Verified fuel pressure 13 PSI with engine idling??? ECM 1227747 with BCC code (ASDU or ???) Do you have functional SES light? Do you have functional P/N switch?? MAP sensor connected to back port of TB (only MAP sensor can be connected to that part nothing else), //RF
__________________
"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ishpeming, MI
Posts: 36
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
So far - you have 350 CID motor (I assume it is stock??) Yes
Trany - THM-350?? Yes VSS = Yes or no. NO Verified fuel pressure 13 PSI with engine idling??? Unsure on how to check ECM 1227747 with BCC code (ASDU or ???) where do I find the BCC ? Do you have functional SES light? YES Do you have functional P/N switch?? Whats this? MAP sensor connected to back port of TB (only MAP sensor can be connected to that part nothing else), MMM I have it on the front left port and the trans is hooked on the rear port. |
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#9 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
BCC is printed on the ECM service label along with service part number - 1227747. If this label is missing you can remove EPROM cover plate (2x 1/4" sheet metal screws) and read BCC from EPROM label. However, this is not critical at this time. P/N switch stands for Park/Neutral switch and tells ECM if trany is in Park/ Neutral or in Drive - ECM will increase idle RPM when gear selector is moved into drive to prevent engine stall. Since you have 350 CID engine - you better have 62 lb injectors - right??? Do you have EGR?? //RF
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"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
I used the search feature and found this thread, man is it awesome! I started at the beginning and made it to page 9 before skipping to the last page praying that this thread was still alive. I have an 85 k20 suburban with a 350 and swapping out the manual trans for a rebuilt 700r4, was going yo do the 5.3 swap but it's just not for me right now. Anyways I'm going to pick up a 91 1500 suburban parts truck after work and going to start my swap this weekend hopefully. I'm going to go back and read over the 21 pages I just skipped but I'm sure I will have a few questions for you guys along the way and were just wondering if you guys were still here
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#11 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
Good luck and keep us updated.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#12 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
Since you have a 91 donor for your swap it will make conversion easier. Couple of issues that I see for you - are you planning to keep 4 wheel drive system in your 85 K20? How much of the 91 drive train are going to swap into 85???. //RF
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"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
I'm keeping my entire drivetrain just using all of the tbi stuff of of the donor truck, was gonna take the heads and intake but this truck has blown head gaskets so I may just use an adapter plate on my intake. What problems did you forsee with my swap ? I do know that the donor truck is 4x4 but I'm not sure if it has a 700r4 in it or not but I just assumed that a 91 would
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#14 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
The computer may not like the cam in your 85 very much so you will probably need to do some tuning once you get it running. The VE of the older heads and intake are bound to be quite different than the TBI parts too. Nothing a little quality time with TunerPro RT won't fix.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
How do I go about keeping my older 700r4 in it ? It's freshly rebuilt with 0 miles on it
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#16 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
If not then the transfer case of the 85 manual trans in the K20 should be a large fine spline that won't allow the older small fine spline 700R4 / 4L60 to bolt up to it. It could also be a large 10-spline setup if somebody retrofit an older SM465 & transfer case into it some time in the past but neither will fit the 700R4. You will have the small fine spline transfer case you need to do the 700R4 / 4L60 conversion with the 91 V1500 parts truck. The NP241 in it is an upgrade over the NP208 as well with a stronger chain design and a few other upgrades. Your older 700R4 will bolt right up to the transfer case in the 91 and the driveshafts should be close to the right size for you too. You will have some differences in the rear section of the rear driveshaft with the 14-bolt vs. the 10-bolt rear axles. You should be able to put the back half of the 85 driveshaft onto the front half of the 91 rear driveshaft to make a hybrid length version to bolt the 700R4 / NP241 to the 14-bolt in the 85. It will simplify your TBI conversion too as all the wiring and ECM is set up for the non-mechanical speedo pieces in the 91.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Is the spline count different on a newer 700 and 241 transfer case
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#18 |
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,957
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
I don't think so. The 208 and 241 transfer case are pretty similar, save for the speedometer drive.
If you don't want to swap those out, JTR sells a VSS that is driven by the speedometer cable. I went that way on my swap; the part is $75.
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1974 Jimmy- 5.3/4L80e/NP241 Last edited by Jonboy; 06-29-2011 at 11:35 AM. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Thanks guys. Look at me flooding you guys with questions and I haven't even picked up the doner truck yet, man 4:00 is taking forever to come I feel like a kid on Christmas eve !
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#20 |
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
I have not put my automatic trans in yet but I did pull the manual out, it was a 456. I got my 700r4 and transfer case out of a 86 k blazer then sent the trans out to be rebuilt, I also made sure to get all the linkage. On another note picked up my parts truck yesterday and man is the interior nice, paid 450 for it and it actually runs but it needs new head gaskets. Should I send the center bolt heads out to the shop and use those heads and intake off the 91 or should I just use what's in my truck now with an adapter plate? I am trying to keep this a low cost swap but want to do it the right way. Not looking for power but reliability and mpg's as this will be my new daily driver.
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#21 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
![]() Great concept except that it causes air flow restriction at higher RPM's which is not an issue for truck engines. IMHO, I would rebuild or fix 91 engine vs 85. The 91 block uses single piece RMS which almost never leak vs. split 2-piece seal used in 85 block. Also, the 91 block has provisions for a roller cam - cast bosses for the roller lifter retaining spider and machined cam thrust retention plate in front. If you ever choose to go to roller cam the conversion is matter of sourcing parts. What you have to figure out why head gasket failed - most of the time it is due to head warping. These heads do not have enough material in right places and if subjected to prolonged high outputs tend to warp. If overheated they crack between two center adjacent exhausts ports. Before spending time or money on these heads have machine shop magnaflux them to make sure that there are no cracks. I have thrown out probably 3 or 4 sets of heads last year for cracks. Older heads (from your 85) will bolt to your 91 block. 91 Intake manifold will require minor filing of 4 inner bolts - the angle changed from 45 to 72 degrees. Round file does the trick. Stock ECM calibration can be used as a starting point to run this engine. However, as 68TT mentioned this will not be optimum due to spark advance (SA) and volumetric efficiency (VE) tables in your ECM setup for a 350 with swirl heads. ECM parameters can be easily changed by altering appropriate tables and burning new chip for your ECM. Let us know what you find - do not rush into it - ask questions. //RF
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"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#22 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
My 85 block runs like a dream and I'm on a budget so rebuilding the 91 block is not an option at this time. However I will take the heads to the machine shop and see if they are any good. Was planing on pulling my 85 block out to clean and paint the engine bay and block, so while it's out I will change all the gaskets and rear main seal also gonna check the freeze plugs. If I do use the 91 heads on the 85 block will I still have to get a new chip
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#23 | |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Quote:
If your cam is not too big in the 85 engine then it will end up being cheaper to just put a TBI adapter plate on the 85 intake and buy the stuff to burn your own prom chips rather than put out the cash to rebuild the TBI heads. I would go with a new computer friendly cam & lifters with more lift & duration than the TBI cam if the one in your 85 is too aggressive. The stock TBI cam is ridiculously small and I wouldn't spend the money to buy a new stock replacement one. The TBI intake does not flow well at all and will be a hindrance even compared to the stock 85 Q-Jet intake so don't waste your time or a set of intake gaskets to make the thing fit your 85 heads. You will want an ALDL cable and the TunerPro RT software anyway just to monitor your engine so all you really need to buy above the basics is a chip burner like you will find on moates.net A little quality time tuning the ECM to the 85 engine won't cost you anything but time and a bit of gas. The guys on thirdgen.org have documented all the tuning procedures very well so they are a great learning resource.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: OC CA
Posts: 1,374
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Further to 68TT point
If you have a factory cam (or even a mild RV cam ) in your 85 350 stock TBI calibration is robust enough to run that engine. Once you get it going and driving you'll want to dial in the combo for a better performance which will require, as 68TT put it " Quality time with TunerPRO ". You'll be surprised how much performance can be attained after you are done with it. Just keep this in mind stock TBI cam has 179/194 deg duration at .050" and maximum valve lift with 1.5:1 rocker ratio is .350/.384 - pathetic for all practical purposes. For a factory or mild RV builds my basic rule of thumb is - if it idles STEADILY around 650-700 RPM with 14 to 16 in-Hg (or better) stock calibration - (ASDU) is good enough to start with and run. The biggest hindrance to TBI is large overlap camshafts with tight LSA <112 deg. Tighter LSA and large overlap throws too much unburned intake charge into exhaust, at idle, causing false lean condition. If you are looking for a mild flat tappet camshaft MT-2, CS-1014R, Crane CRN-113904, Edelbrock Perfomer 3702 and many others have been tried and are known to work with basically stock TBI calibrations. //RF
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"The Beast" 1975 Chevrolet C20 longbed 350/700R4! with 3inch body lift Dual Flowmasters Super 40's! TBI retrofit completed (2007-07-29) ![]() New 383CID (+030) 08-304-8 9.5:1CR x36,005 (2012-12-17) |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 196
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Re: Tbi swap build thread
Ok so I'm going to go with the adapter plate with the 85 intake and heads. Is there going to be a special bracket for the tv cable ? Just trying to get my parts lined up
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